The rest of the season...

[Axl Rose]

They hadn't seen GS at all that season until that game. Do you really think that they put a BIG scouting report together for Draymond Greene? And the guy didn't shoot 3's last year at all. It's been a surprise to everyone in the league.

But guess what Thibs did the next time they met? Made adjustments by guarding him out to the 3pt line. The result: 4-14 shooting 1-6 from 3. NEXT!

yeah but after he hit 4 wide open 3's you make the adjustment to stay there on him that game, not next week

and do those stats you brought up only account for stretch 4s? its no secret they have been a pain in our side so its no need to deny that...its something thibs could adjust to....atleast when a player has it going

also lets not gloss over the fact thibs will ride a cold lineup for long periods by bringing up a few little adjustments hes made like switching defenders....in-game adjustments is an area he could improve and has been

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

well one i can point out he never seems to make an adjustment on is those stretch 4's i was talking about

you would think that night Draymond was killing us he woulda made sure Taj or whoever stay on him

Diddy did a good job explaining your Draymond Green point, but my main issue with this is the generalities you're spewing here. If your main concern is, "Well player x should be guarded when he's scoring a lot." Yeah, well no shit. What specific adjustment are you looking for him to make? Run him off the three point line? Double-team him? Trap the point guard? Just saying 'guard him' doesn't really give much of an answer.

The fact is there are many in game adjustments they make throughout the course of the game, season, and quarter. Just because person x isn't being guarded the way you think he should be doesn't mean an adjustment is going to happen. That is why I said earlier that you might not be paying attention.

 

[Axl Rose]

Diddy did a good job explaining your Draymond Green point, but my main issue with this is the generalities you're spewing here. If your main concern is, "Well player x should be guarded when he's scoring a lot." Yeah, well no shit. What specific adjustment are you looking for him to make? Run him off the three point line? Double-team him? Trap the point guard? Just saying 'guard him' doesn't really give much of an answer.

i don't think he did a good job at all really...the main point was he don't adjust in-games...what does he do? make an excuse on why thibs didn't adjust in-game

The fact is there are many in game adjustments they make throughout the course of the game, season, and quarter. Just because person x isn't being guarded the way you think he should be doesn't mean an adjustment is going to happen. That is why I said earlier that you might not be paying attention.

first i said that he doesn't make any lineup changes...you said thats not the only adjustments you can make

so i brought up another one he doesn't make...now its another excuse

but again lets not gloss over the lineup changes...which is a pretty big adjustment he has problems with

 

[The Hawk]

Well, he use to have a top assistant shooting coach named Ron Adams who he was very fond of...GarPax fired Adams though.

I don't remember how that went down. Was there anykind of reason given? DId Thibs say anything when it happened? Head coaches usually are responsible for hiring assistants I thought.

 

[The Hawk]

If the lineups are what you are talking about in regards to in game adjustments then I feel confident in saying that you aren't paying attention.

I agree. He makes a lot of in game adjustments. We may not like what they are, but he makes them.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I don't remember how that went down. Was there anykind of reason given? DId Thibs say anything when it happened? Head coaches usually are responsible for hiring assistants I thought.

The general thought is that Adams did not agree with the decision not to match Asik and GarPax let him go as an "FU" to Thibs with that reasoning.

 

[The Hawk]

The general thought is that Adams did not agree with the decision not to match Asik and GarPax let him go as an "FU" to Thibs with that reasoning.

Didn't know that. Thanks

 

[Diddy1122]

i don't think he did a good job at all really...the main point was he don't adjust in-games...what does he do? make an excuse on why thibs didn't adjust in-game

You maintained that Thibs defense was 'cooked' due to the team's struggles against Stretch 4's. I gave you clear and concise examples to the contrary and provided statistical facts as to the team's defensive struggles (opponents rebounds). You maintained that Thibs never makes adjustments. I again gave you a clear example of one, in regards to your Stretch 4 argument. The proof is the same, regardless of whether you were referencing in-game or in-general adjustments, which seem to change with the tides. No excuses were offered other than the ones you yourself read into by misconstruing my response.

And to stick with the GS game as an example, the defensive game plan called for stopping Curry & Thompson, who were a combined 14-37 from the field & 3-13 from 3 in that game. I'd say the defense did a pretty damn good job of executing that plan. Yes, they got caught by surprise by an energy player that no one really knew could shoot 3's now. Using that as an example of the defense being "cooked" was a very poor choice.

first i said that he doesn't make any lineup changes...you said thats not the only adjustments you can make

so i brought up another one he doesn't make...now its another excuse

but again lets not gloss over the lineup changes...which is a pretty big adjustment he has problems with

The team has had 6 different starting lineups so far this season. That's quite a few lineup changes I'd say. They've had their regular starters for a mere 16 games. They've had 2 starters on minutes restrictions until just last month. You keep harping on this lineup changes and rotations and I really am starting to wonder if you are watching the same games we all are. I've seen countless lineup changes and adjustments by Thibs this season. In fact, the team has been inconsistent BECAUSE of CONSTANT lineup changes. It is difficult to build continuity and chemistry when that occurs. You have to do it, to use your term, "on the fly". That is exactly what is happening now. Nothing is broken when it comes to this team. All there is are areas that need improving.

 

[Axl Rose]

i dont think we are on the same page here

we are talking about "in-game" adjustments so when i say lineup changes im talking about "in-game" like a lineup he had pre-planned comes out cold, he is stubborn to make a change

him having 6 different starting lineups has zero to do with what im saying

 

[Axl Rose]

arguing about thibs and defense is stupid...hes still a great defensive mind (although i argue thats all he is) so calm down

however thibs runs a pick and roll defense called "ICE" and this does IN FACT give up a long 2/3 to the offensive team

here is a article on what im taking about: http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/550539

for example. The Bulls "ICE" the pick-and-roll, which sees Kirk Hinrich shade the ball-handler (Mario Chalmers) towards the baseline, while Carlos Boozer looms in the lane protecting against the drive. This action effectively contains the ball-handler, while protecting against a roll from the big. It's a strategy employed by almost every team in the league because it's effective.

Unless, of course, if the big can shoot. The way to beat ICE defenses is to involve a screener who can shoot. In the play, Bosh sags back on the perimeter, waits for the kickout and easily drains the three. If the screener can shoot, the opposing team can no longer afford to sag the big back in the paint to guard the drive, unless they commit a third defender on a rotation, which causes mismatches elsewhere.

guys like Bosh(as you see in the video), Nene, Scola, Draymond have all exploited this and thats why i said its "cooked" because its becoming more common for offenses to exploit it

 

[Diddy1122]

i dont think we are on the same page here

we are talking about "in-game" adjustments so when i say lineup changes im talking about "in-game" like a lineup he had pre-planned comes out cold, he is stubborn to make a change

him having 6 different starting lineups has zero to do with what im saying

As Gus stated previously, you speak in generalities in your arguments all the time it's difficult to even know what you are arguing half the time. Then when someone comes back with a legitimate response, it's "well no I was talking about this, not that. Stop making excuses". Clone has given you examples of "in-game" adjustments before, which you've brushed off. We've all been providing you with examples to support our arguments which you've chosen to ignore the entire time so we'll just have to leave it at "agree to disagree" at this point. It's probably for the best hehe.

 

[Diddy1122]

arguing about thibs defense is stupid...hes still a great defensive mind (although i argue that all he is) so calm down

however thibs runs a pick and roll defense called "ICE" and this does IN FACT give up a long 2/3 to the offensive team

here is a article on what im taking about: http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/550539



guys like Bosh(as you see in the video), Nene, Scola, Draymond have all exploited this and thats why i said its "cooked" because its becoming more common for offenses to exploit it

Ok this is the last I speak on this but if you indeed believe this is the reason the defense is "cooked", then ALMOST EVERY DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE IS, since almost every team employs this type of PnR defense in their schemes. I'm just shocked that you would think a guy who masterminded a defense that nearly everyone uses now, would somehow NOT be able to make adjustments to his schemes to incorporate stretch 4's.

 

[Axl Rose]

As Gus stated previously, you speak in generalities in your arguments all the time it's difficult to even know what you are arguing half the time. Then when someone comes back with a legitimate response, it's "well no I was talking about this, not that. Stop making excuses". Clone has given you examples of "in-game" adjustments before, which you've brushed off. We've all been providing you with examples to support our arguments which you've chosen to ignore the entire time so we'll just have to leave it at "agree to disagree" at this point. It's probably for the best hehe.

ive been saying in-game in-game in-game in this thread and have tried to stress thats what im talking about

lets put it this way, my main problem with thibs in-game adjustments is lineup related...fair?

Ok this is the last I speak on this but if you indeed believe this is the reason the defense is "cooked", then ALMOST EVERY DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE IS, since almost every team employs this type of PnR defense in their schemes. I'm just shocked that you would think a guy who masterminded a defense that nearly everyone uses now, would somehow NOT be able to make adjustments to his schemes to incorporate stretch 4's.

i gave thibs props in my post

hes a great defensive mind and when i said his defense was cooked and to get rid of him before he was exposed i was being a bit silly...although he does need to make an adjustment to it

but im glad you understand about the stretch 4 thing now

 

[Scoot26]

vs Sacramento - non playoff team - W 104-86
vs Cleveland - playoff team W 113-98
@ Detroit - non playoff team
Phoenix - playoff team
Milwaukee - playoff team
Charlotte - sub .500 playoff team
Minnesota - non playoff team
LA Clippers - playoff team
Washington - playoff team
Oklahoma City - currently a above .500 non-playoff team

Two big wins to start this stretch here. Bulls are finally scoring and playing good defense.