To make it Clear, JH ain't too bad

[waldo7239117]

OK on every thread we always get a post saying JH is not good, he makes bad deals, he's the worse GM in baseball, etc. But he isn't as bad as it seems. I've been a JH supporter for years. I'm not saying I am all for all his trades because I'm not but I won't be against him because he's the Cubs GM. JH is pretty good with trades and FA signings is not his best (will see below). This is how I see it, he really needs help when he's going to sign players to extensions or sign them off the FA market. But trades let him be because he has made excellent trades.

This offseason trades:
Garza trade: JH prolly gave up too much in the trade but the Cubs needed another SP to be in the rotation. I have no faith in Wells (most likely will be 5th starter). Szczur will take Guyer's spot asnd I think will be better. So that was fine. The Cubs need to trade a pitcher to get a pitcher and that's where Archer goes, so that's fine. The Cubs have enough of catchers so who care about that departure, Fuld for Perez was a wash but Perez has way more upside. However, I hate losing Lee and I think that's where JH lost the trade but he was still unproven and we dont know what would have happen to him. So we just have to wait on Lee's developement. I give a 60/40% advantage to TB.

Gorzo trade: I know we don't know how the spects will do but I have every reason to think the Cubs win and that will stay a win.

FA 2011 signings:
Carlos Pena: A 10M deal for a 1 year looked like a dumb move since Pena hit under .200 last year. But the contract was deferred and looks way better now than it seemed. Right now I think JH lost but Pena 2011 stats will do the talking.

Marshall extension: From first review I like it and I think I will always like it. I think it was a nice bargain by JH.

Wood signing: It helped that Wood took a big discount to come back to the Cubs but it was nice to see JH was committed to a dea;.

There was more moves this offseason but these were the main deals in my view.

Past history:
Aramis Ramirez trade: JH win
Derrek Lee trade: JH win
Milton Bradley trade: JH win
Gorzo/Grabow trade: JH win
Harden/Gaudin trade: JH win
Mark Derosa trade: JH win
Alfonso Soriano FA signing: JH fail
John Grabow re-signing: JH fail
Milton Bradley signing: JH fail
Carlos Zambrano signing: JH fail

There was way more in that category but this is all I can think of right now. So really The Garza trade could be JH's worse trade but that's still TBD. Like I said trades in JH bright spot but signings are not.

Also, you can look the JH had bad scouting reports on players. Suck as....Hamilton and draft picks that the Cubs passes up on and deals that should have been made to help but didn't and now he messed up on those moves (i.e. Josh Vitters and Brian Roberts)

So all your JH shit bashing please say it in here because he's really not that bad like people say. And JoeHawks JH is not god and everybody knows that, but he's a MLB umpire and it shows.

Thoughts?

 

[DewsSox79]

i cant even respond to this. he is an avg GM at best. stop overrating him.

 

[waldo7239117]

i cant even respond to this. he is an avg GM at best. stop overrating him.

Uhhh OK??? That had nothing to do with the post, so I can't say anything. OK he's average, I'll take that but I'm not overrating him.

 

[Jntg4]

He's OK, but CO thinks he's the best GM ever.

 

[AddisonStation]

Don't forget about bringing in Lofton and Simon in '03. Those two guys also made an impact for that team.

I do not think he is the best GM nor do i think he is the worst. He has made some big mistakes but he has also put together some really good teams.

 

[daddies3angels]

OK on every thread we always get a post saying JH is not good, he makes bad deals, he's the worse GM in baseball, etc. But he isn't as bad as it seems. I've been a JH supporter for years. I'm not saying I am all for all his trades because I'm not but I won't be against him because he's the Cubs GM. JH is pretty good with trades and FA signings is not his best (will see below). This is how I see it, he really needs help when he's going to sign players to extensions or sign them off the FA market. But trades let him be because he has made excellent trades.

This offseason trades:
Garza trade: JH prolly gave up too much in the trade but the Cubs needed another SP to be in the rotation. I have no faith in Wells (most likely will be 5th starter). Szczur will take Guyer's spot asnd I think will be better. So that was fine. The Cubs need to trade a pitcher to get a pitcher and that's where Archer goes, so that's fine. The Cubs have enough of catchers so who care about that departure, Fuld for Perez was a wash but Perez has way more upside. However, I hate losing Lee and I think that's where JH lost the trade but he was still unproven and we dont know what would have happen to him. So we just have to wait on Lee's developement. I give a 60/40% advantage to TB.

Gorzo trade: I know we don't know how the spects will do but I have every reason to think the Cubs win and that will stay a win.

FA 2011 signings:
Carlos Pena: A 10M deal for a 1 year looked like a dumb move since Pena hit under .200 last year. But the contract was deferred and looks way better now than it seemed. Right now I think JH lost but Pena 2011 stats will do the talking.

Marshall extension: From first review I like it and I think I will always like it. I think it was a nice bargain by JH.

Wood signing: It helped that Wood took a big discount to come back to the Cubs but it was nice to see JH was committed to a dea;.

There was more moves this offseason but these were the main deals in my view.

Past history:
Aramis Ramirez trade: JH win
Derrek Lee trade: JH win
Milton Bradley trade: JH win
Gorzo/Grabow trade: JH win
Harden/Gaudin trade: JH win
Mark Derosa trade: JH win
Alfonso Soriano FA signing: JH fail
John Grabow re-signing: JH fail
Milton Bradley signing: JH fail
Carlos Zambrano signing: JH fail

There was way more in that category but this is all I can think of right now. So really The Garza trade could be JH's worse trade but that's still TBD. Like I said trades in JH bright spot but signings are not.

Also, you can look the JH had bad scouting reports on players. Suck as....Hamilton and draft picks that the Cubs passes up on and deals that should have been made to help but didn't and now he messed up on those moves (i.e. Josh Vitters and Brian Roberts)

So all your JH shit bashing please say it in here because he's really not that bad like people say. And JoeHawks JH is not god and everybody knows that, but he's a MLB umpire and it shows.

Thoughts?

i agree that Hendry has done a good job in Chicago. He has done alot more then any other GM in Cubs history in last 102 years. 3 postseasons. 6 outs away from WS. I think you contradict yourself on Garza point and Gorzlanny point. Your saying we lose Garza deal cause of prospcts we gave up but saying we wont know how Gorz trade is until those prospects show something. What have the prospects going to TBR shown? The same thing that WSN specs have. All of them have DONE NOTHING.

 

[The Bandit]

only bad trade i can think of is the Pierre one and i liked Pierre lol

 

[Capt. Serious]

i agree that Hendry has done a good job in Chicago. He has done alot more then any other GM in Cubs history in last 102 years. 3 postseasons. 6 outs away from WS. I think you contradict yourself on Garza point and Gorzlanny point. Your saying we lose Garza deal cause of prospcts we gave up but saying we wont know how Gorz trade is until those prospects show something. What have the prospects going to TBR shown? The same thing that WSN specs have. All of them have DONE NOTHING.

The hell does 6 outs away have to do with it?

 

[Relapse]

He has done very little with a very big payroll. He also is the king of bad contracts.

He is kind of like Dale Tallon, but you know without the championship to back it up.

 

[AddisonStation]

The hell does 6 outs away have to do with it?

That he put a team together that was good enough to get that close. That team wasn't very good to begin the season.

 

[Northside_slugger]

Hate him or love him, we can argue it on here from now until spring training, but that's just a waste of time. He's been here for a very long time, and any GM whos been part of a team for a long time will have made good moves and bad moves.

However, our ownership likes him and he's here. On top of that, Hendry has had a VERY good off-season for the Cubs. When i joined this forum at seasons end, we all talked about what the winter will bring and most said it'd be very quiet except the few who seriously thought Adam Dunn was coming. Hendry has made solid moves, he got us a solid top of the rotation pitcher, he got us Carlos Pena on a 1-year deal and then replenished our youth system by trading away a spare part.

 

[DewsSox79]

Hate him or love him, we can argue it on here from now until spring training, but that's just a waste of time. He's been here for a very long time, and any GM whos been part of a team for a long time will have made good moves and bad moves.

However, our ownership likes him and he's here. On top of that, Hendry has had a VERY good off-season for the Cubs. When i joined this forum at seasons end, we all talked about what the winter will bring and most said it'd be very quiet except the few who seriously thought Adam Dunn was coming. Hendry has made solid moves, he got us a solid top of the rotation pitcher, he got us Carlos Pena on a 1-year deal and then replenished our youth system by trading away a spare part.[/QUOTE]

Please tell me you arent talking about Gorzo. Please.

 

[wadedog21]

i cant even respond to this. he is an avg GM at best. stop overrating him.

If you are basing this on the lack of a world series title than I will go along with you. On the other hand.....with the exception of the Soriano deal it is not his fault that the players are not performing at the level they should be. He has brought players in here that looked good untilt they put on a Cubs uniform.

 

[Jntg4]

You can't accredit being "6 outs away" in 2003 to Hendry, it was his first season as GM. Most of the team was already in place. All he did were the trade deadline trades.

 

[waldo7239117]

He has done very little with a very big payroll. He also is the king of bad contracts.

He is kind of like Dale Tallon, but you know without the championship to back it up.

The Cubs do have a big payroll but that's just because JH over paid for the players. It's not like he brought in top players like the Yanks, Red Sox, etc do. He signed one big player, really and that's Soriano and he just kept his players.

 

[poodski]

i cant even respond to this. he is an avg GM at best. stop overrating him.

He is above average at best. I would put him somewhere in the 8-12 area in the ranking of GM's.

 

[poodski]

Can we at least agree he is the best baseball GM in Chicago?

 

[FirstTimer]

You can't accredit being "6 outs away" in 2003 to Hendry, it was his first season as GM. Most of the team was already in place. All he did were the trade deadline trades.

That assesment isn't entirely true. Hendry became GM midway through the 2002 season.

In mid 2003 he traded for Lofton and Aramis. Both those players turned out to be very good for the Cubs down the stretch run(Lofton) and in the long term(Aramis). Getting those guys for Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez is more than "just some deadline deal".

Before 2004 he acquired:

Derek Lee. Win
Michael Barret. Win IMO
Latrot Hawkins: Loss
Todd Walker: Meh
Greg Maddux: Win

In season he got Nomar: Win..maybe. Debatable at best before Nomar's injury.
Matt Murton: Meh

After 2004:
Got rid of Sosa: Win.
Signed Burnitz: Decent..Meh?
Signed Chad Fox: Meh
Traded Farnsworth: Marginal loss

For 2006:
Traded for Pierre: Gave up Nolasco and Mitre to do it. I would lean towards Loss even though Pierre played well for the Cubs
Signed Eyre and Howry: Meh
Signed Jacque Jones: Win
Traded for Iztruris: Loss

2007:
Signed Soriano: I'll count it as a win even though the contract is too big. It tough to ignore that Soriano was a key piece in getting the Cubs to back to back post season births.
Resigned Aramis: Win
Derosa signing: Win
Cotts trade: Loss
Lilly signing: Win
Floyd signing: Meh
Freddie Bynumb for Kevin Hart: Meh
Took Josh Hamilton in Rule 5 draft..then traded him to Cincy: Loss
Jason Kendall trade: Marginal win.
Marquis signing: Meh
Zambrano contract: Loss

2008:
Fukudome signing: Loss overall.
Traded away Pagan: Loss I guess
Harden trade: Win
Reed Johnson signing: Win
Edmonds signing: Win
Lieber signing: Meh

2009:
Gregg trade: Meh
Derosa trade: Meh. Got Archer but just traded him for Garza so take that for what it's worth
Marquis trade: Marginal loss
Pie trade: Marginal loss
Gathright trade: Marginal loss
Baker trade: Win
Grabow Gorzo trade: Win
Miles signing: Meh/Marginal Loss
Milton Bradley signing: FAIL
So Taguchi signing:Meh
Paul Bako signing: Meh

2010:
Heilman trade: Meh
Fox/Miles trade: Meh
Bradley trade:WIN
Byrd signing: Win
Nady signing: Loss
Tracy signing: Meh
Millar signing: Meh
Blanco trade: Meh
Lilly Trade: Loss
Fontenot trade: Meh
Lee trade: Loss I guess but depends how these prospects pan out long term. For now thoughit's a loss

On top of that the Cubs minorleague system has gotten better under Hnedry as well. It's not great by any means but has improved a good amount since he took over in 2003.

Hendry hasn't been great but hasn't been terrible either. I guess I'd rank him around the 8-14 range for GM's. Whatever that's worth.

I'm sure I'm missing a huge amount of minor league deals too.

 

[poodski]

How is the Lilly Fontenot and Lee trades meh or losses? It was getting something for players that were either leaving or not needed. Makes perfect sense to me.

Also the Josh Hamilton trade was not a loss. It was completely nothing.

 

[FirstTimer]

How is the Lilly Fontenot and Lee trades meh or losses? It was getting something for players that were either leaving or not needed. Makes perfect sense to me.

Also the Josh Hamilton trade was not a loss. It was completely nothing.

The Lilly and Lee trades are losses as we gave up proven mid-upper talent at the MLB level for MLB scraps from the Dodgers and unproven prospects from the Braves. I would have rather kept one or both of them and tried to resign them rather than willingly give them up for what amounts to not a whole heck of a lot.

The Lee trade can't really be fairly evaluated until those prospects either flame out or become something. The Lilly trade though was more of win for a Dodgers team chasing a playoff birth than it was for the Cubs. The Cubs got some "guys" back but nothing really offsetting what they gave up. It wasn't some massive failure of a trade but it was a loss. The Cubs didn't become better as a result of the trade and I don't see the trade paying off down the line in any real way.



As for Josh Hamilton:

He just won the AL MVP. The Cubs had a chance to hold onto him after taking him in the Rule 5 draft but instead traded him away for cash to the Reds. That's a loss. Scary thought is if they hold onto Hamilton they may not have to sink money into Bradley as Hamilton would give them both a RF/CF and a lefty bat. I really can't believe I'm having to explain how not holding onto Josh Hamilton is a loss