Toews Vs. Rose For MVP of Chicago

Derkach77 · Oct 12, 2010

D roseeeee.

brett05 · Oct 13, 2010

houheffna said:
NO, the coach has not passed Jordan locally. A lot of people think Ditka is overrated and became a parody of himself over time, like Bobby Knight and others of that ilk. Not saying that he is a bad coach, but "Da Coach" is only who he is because of the Bears, and this is a Bears town first and foremost. So the town made "Da Coach" more than anything, and I think other cities look at us with pity...and they should if Ditka is this town's MVP.

You list a lot of reasons why Mike is greater than Michael for the city's MVP. His parody of himself is what helps, not hurts. Ditka's restaurants have survived and thrived. Not so much with Jordan's. The coach is everywhere in this town, I don't see Michael much at all anymore.
Michael is on the cover of 2011 and a focal point of the game. Ditka is also part of national sports with ESPN.

Da' Coach is quoted all the time. Did the Bears make Da' Coach? That's a topic for a different thread I beleive.

RamiTheBullsFan · Oct 13, 2010

Jordan is the face of Chicago sports. Ditka is not.

TopekaRoy · Oct 13, 2010

I don't know how Cutler and Urlacher are not even considered in the discussion for this year's Chicago MVP. The Bears are 4-1. Without Cutler they would probably be 1-4. I don't think they beat Detroit, Dallas, or Green Bay with Collins or Hanie at QB. With Urlacher out last year the Bears went 7-9 (.438). Their winning percentage this year with Urlacher is .800. Admittedly some of that may have to do with Peppers, but there is no argument that Brian's presence makes a huge difference on this defense.

The Bears have a bigger fan base than the Bulls and Blackhawks combined. While that shouldn't matter in this discussion, it does. In the minds of Chicagoland fans (and fans of Chicago teams nationwide), I think at the end of the season the majority of fans will say Cutler or Urlacher is Chicago's most valuable athlete.

pinkizdead · Oct 13, 2010

chicago is a screeching weasel town.

houheffna · Oct 14, 2010

brett05 said:
You list a lot of reasons why Mike is greater than Michael for the city's MVP. His parody of himself is what helps, not hurts. Ditka's restaurants have survived and thrived. Not so much with Jordan's. The coach is everywhere in this town, I don't see Michael much at all anymore.
Michael is on the cover of 2011 and a focal point of the game. Ditka is also part of national sports with ESPN.

Da' Coach is quoted all the time. Did the Bears make Da' Coach? That's a topic for a different thread I beleive.

What the hell does restaurants have to do with city MVP. You have taken this to a level that is off subject. Ditka is not as important to the PRESENT sports world in Chicago than Toews or Rose. Basically, bringing him up in this debate is laughable.

My point was Ditka is overrated, and you are one of the people overrating him. Ditka's restaurants thrive because OF THE FOOD! Not necessarily because of Ditka. Jordan's restaurant died out because OF THE FOOD, not because his star is somehow fading in Chicago. Ditka being a part of national sports has nothing to do with the subject.

You would have to explain how Ditka acting like a clown at the end of his time here in Chicago helps him. It accelerated his termination. He looked like a buffoon at times...if anything, Ditka underachieved in Chicago as coach, he was a great player however. But he is not presently the sports MVP of this time, and I don't quite understand why you think he would even qualify.

houheffna · Oct 14, 2010

TopekaRoy said:
I don't know how Cutler and Urlacher are not even considered in the discussion for this year's Chicago MVP. The Bears are 4-1. Without Cutler they would probably be 1-4. I don't think they beat Detroit, Dallas, or Green Bay with Collins or Hanie at QB. With Urlacher out last year the Bears went 7-9 (.438). Their winning percentage this year with Urlacher is .800. Admittedly some of that may have to do with Peppers, but there is no argument that Brian's presence makes a huge difference on this defense.

The Bears have a bigger fan base than the Bulls and Blackhawks combined. While that shouldn't matter in this discussion, it does. In the minds of Chicagoland fans (and fans of Chicago teams nationwide), I think at the end of the season the majority of fans will say Cutler or Urlacher is Chicago's most valuable athlete.

Admittedly some of this MAY have something to do with Peppers? He is the best player on the team! Cutler included.

brett05 · Oct 14, 2010

houheffna, I think a clear definition of MVP would be in order. The only thing laughable right now is your unsupported comments.

I would define the MVP as who or what brings the most attention to Chicago Sports. With that definition and the reasons I have given about his national exposure, restaurants, commercials on radio/tv/newsprint and his radio show, it's clearly Mike Ditka. Even if people see him in jest, He's still the one that draws the attention here.

Yes, I have changed my mind, it's not that he might have, he totally has surpassed Michael Jordan as the MVP of Sports in Chicago.

houheffna · Oct 14, 2010

brett05 said:
houheffna, I think a clear definition of MVP would be in order. The only thing laughable right now is your unsupported comments.

I would define the MVP as who or what brings the most attention to Chicago Sports. With that definition and the reasons I have given about his national exposure, restaurants, commercials on radio/tv/newsprint and his radio show, it's clearly Mike Ditka. Even if people see him in jest, He's still the one that draws the attention here.

Yes, I have changed my mind, it's not that he might have, he totally has surpassed Michael Jordan as the MVP of Sports in Chicago.

If you want a clear definition of MVP...read the article. That might help you to understand why bringing up a coach who hasn't coached here in 20 years is asinine in this argument. Jordan doesn't even fit the criteria and neither does Ditka.

Look at the choices given in the poll related to the column, see any former athletes on that board at all? Cutler, Konerko....Ditka? Don't you find something askew about your argument? Laughable even?

Ditka draws attention to Ditka...he is not Chicago's sports MVP.

TopekaRoy · Oct 14, 2010

houheffna said:
If you want a clear definition of MVP...read the article. That might help you to understand why bringing up a coach who hasn't coached here in 20 years is asinine in this argument. Jordan doesn't even fit the criteria and neither does Ditka.

Look at the choices given in the poll related to the column, see any former athletes on that board at all? Cutler, Konerko....Ditka? Don't you find something askew about your argument? Laughable even?

Ditka draws attention to Ditka...he is not Chicago's sports MVP.

Cutler is a former athlete? He's only been out for one game! Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.

I would define MVP as the player who makes the most difference to his team in terms of wins and losses. By that definition, I don't think there is any question that Cutler is more valuable to his team than Toews or Rose is to their teams. That doesn't mean he's a better athlete or more skilled - that's a different argument. It just means that his presence or absence makes more of a difference to his respective team than any other athlete on any other team. That is, he's more valuable!

houheffna · Oct 15, 2010

TopekaRoy said:
Cutler is a former athlete? He's only been out for one game! Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.

I would define MVP as the player who makes the most difference to his team in terms of wins and losses. By that definition, I don't think there is any question that Cutler is more valuable to his team than Toews or Rose is to their teams. That doesn't mean he's a better athlete or more skilled - that's a different argument. It just means that his presence or absence makes more of a difference to his respective team than any other athlete on any other team. That is, he's more valuable!

I think success has to enter that equation also. Cutler may be more important, simply by reason of the position he plays, but he is not more valuable to the city than Toews or Rose because he has done nothing above mediocre in his first year and a half here. Last year he threw close to 30 interceptions. Individual success and team success would put Cutler behind Rose and Toews and even Konerko, who is an allstar. Speaking of allstar...Cutler is the only one of the four who did not receive accolades for having and allstar/all-pro season in his last full season in Chicago. So I think Cutler being the City MVP is a losing argument.

When I mention "former athlete" I am referring to Ditka. While all other candidates for this MVP award, which is nothing but a figment, are all present-day athletes, Ditka hasn't played ball in Chicago in almost 45 years...just adding to the asininity of the argument.

Bullsman24 · Oct 16, 2010

i don't think anyone even connects ditka with the current bears team in any way, which makes it kinda pointless to point to him as the mvp of chicago sports.

brett05 · Oct 18, 2010

Hou,
You can't argue Michael over Mike and then say it's laughable to consider Ditka in a later post. Can't have it both ways.

But I took your suggestion. I read the article again, more methodically this time.

First, The article is in error. It assumes that there are only two eligible for the award.
It discounts three fifths of the teams in Chicago without even offering a reason why.

I don't see anywhere where the qualifications are listed. But I was able to pull some points out that I believe the writer wanted to use as criteria.

Leadership
Defense
Better Future

I am just going to mention Ditka here. Taking nothing away from anyone else. Ditka has shown leadership. He led the Bears to win the SuperBowl. He was able to get a bunch of egotistical players to play as an entire unit and destroy the NFL. He’s even going to be part of business leadership at the United Center later on this year with Colin Powell.

Defense. I’ll mention it, but it really doesn’t need to be mentioned. He was head coach during one of the greatest defensive displays of all time.

Better Future? Hard to say what kind of Future any current player may have, but we do know the Future for Ditka. I’ve mentioned many of that throughout this thread.

I’m casting my vote still for Da’ Coach with Michael Jordan coming in second and Harry Carry coming in third, though I should probably cast my vote for Wrigley Field as #1 MVP Sports for Chicago.

houheffna · Oct 18, 2010

brett05 said:
Hou,
You can't argue Michael over Mike and then say it's laughable to consider Ditka in a later post. Can't have it both ways.

But I took your suggestion. I read the article again, more methodically this time.

First, The article is in error. It assumes that there are only two eligible for the award.
It discounts three fifths of the teams in Chicago without even offering a reason why.

I don't see anywhere where the qualifications are listed. But I was able to pull some points out that I believe the writer wanted to use as criteria.

Leadership
Defense
Better Future

I am just going to mention Ditka here. Taking nothing away from anyone else. Ditka has shown leadership. He led the Bears to win the SuperBowl. He was able to get a bunch of egotistical players to play as an entire unit and destroy the NFL. He’s even going to be part of business leadership at the United Center later on this year with Colin Powell.

Defense. I’ll mention it, but it really doesn’t need to be mentioned. He was head coach during one of the greatest defensive displays of all time.

Better Future? Hard to say what kind of Future any current player may have, but we do know the Future for Ditka. I’ve mentioned many of that throughout this thread.

I’m casting my vote still for Da’ Coach with Michael Jordan coming in second and Harry Carry coming in third, though I should probably cast my vote for Wrigley Field as #1 MVP Sports for Chicago.

If the MVPs of Chicago in order are a 70 year old tough guy who won a superbowl 25 years ago. A former player who now owns a team...in Charlotte...and a dead announcer...this town is in really, really bad shape.

And just a note, why would you give Ditka credit for Buddy Ryan's defense? Ditka had absolutely nothing to do with that...nothing.

brett05 · Oct 19, 2010

He still coached that team after Buddy left and that defense was awesome. Plus he gets credit when Buddy was here to be allowed to do what Buddy did.

brett05 · Oct 19, 2010

And Hou, you are right. I think honestly we are not a great sports town. We want to be, but we are not.

houheffna · Oct 19, 2010

brett05 said:
He still coached that team after Buddy left and that defense was awesome. Plus he gets credit when Buddy was here to be allowed to do what Buddy did.

He didn't ALLOW Buddy to do anything...didn't work that way. George Halas hired Buddy Ryan...Ditka had nothing to do with it. And he was hands off after Halas died, because he was told that was the way it would be.

After Buddy Ryan left, others took over the defense. Ditka had nothing to do with it. And I am sure that when the article talked about defense. The writer wasn't thinking about the 1985 Bears. That defense had possibly 3 hall of famers on it...Ditka had nothing to do with their being drafted or their development. Ditka's job was to handle that offense. That is like giving Lovie credit for Martz's offense. I don't think so...

This is a great sports town, Cubs fans????? In no other city would they be as popular and not win for over a century. Bulls fans stuck with the Bulls for years after Jordan left no matter how futile the team was. Blackhawks are the hot ticket in town right now and the Bears??? And the President of the United States wears a Sox hat while throwing out first pitches in other stadiums...Come on man...you are all around wrong about that one. Athletes love Chicago, because the town is great and the fans are great too.

Nobody would say Chick Hearn is the sports MVP in Los Angeles, or even Vin Scully...its Kobe hands down. Nobody would say Red Auerbach is the sports king in Boston...Tom Brady ring a bell? New York? Jeter maybe? Joe Torre? I don't think so...again, you misinterpret the meaning of the article...