Tony Larussa Rumors Flowing

[Skills]

TLR has been an awful manager for the Cardinals for quite some time

Managers in baseball get way too much blame and way too much credit

These...

 

[HighJump31]

The only thing that has kept Tony managing this long IS Dave Duncan.

If you get only Tony, I'm not sure it's even an upgrade over Ozzie, but if you get Duncan with him, then you're looking good. He'll probably turn Buehrle into a Cy Young winner.

 

[Uman85]

The only thing that has kept Tony managing this long IS Dave Duncan.

If you get only Tony, I'm not sure it's even an upgrade over Ozzie, but if you get Duncan with him, then you're looking good. He'll probably turn Buehrle into a Cy Young winner.

St. Louis would be really dumb to let Duncan go. He's a hell of a coach and like you said is a big reason why Tony is still managing. He's done great things in STL and I would be beyond shocked to see him leave.

 

[JSpiwak35]

I don't think Ozzie is a big name outside of Chicago. He is not well-respected.

I never said he was well-respected. Hell, he's not respected by most people in Chicago. People just know who he is because of his mindless rants that don't help the team whatsoever.

 

[DewsSox79]

I don't think Ozzie is a big name outside of Chicago. He is not well-respected.

I hate ozzie, but with that said, how does that even make any sense?

You cant be a big name and not be "well respected" at the same time? cmon now.

I would also like to hear why Larussa is such a bad manager. I hear it from B and B and now you guys, but there isnt anyone stating why. B and B hate him for non baseball related things such as how he speaks, and how he fell asleep at the wheel. I want baseball related reasons why no larussa. Not this,"zomg he sucks, i dont like him.....so he shouldnt be here" shit.

 

[DewsSox79]

The only thing that has kept Tony managing this long IS Dave Duncan.

If you get only Tony, I'm not sure it's even an upgrade over Ozzie, but if you get Duncan with him, then you're looking good. He'll probably turn Buehrle into a Cy Young winner.

but why? elaborate? what does he DO or doesnt do that you dont like?

 

[X]

I completely agree. Not only is Larussa a very good manager in my opinion, but we'd also be replacing a big name with another big name. I'll provide an example of why that's a great, and very important thing.

Yankees go from Joe Torre (big name) to Joe Girardi (big name). Their record since then? 353-241. And they've won a World Series.

Cubs go from Lou Piniella (big name) to Mike Quade (who the **** is that?). Record since then? 46-65. And they're tied with Baltimore for the second worst team in the entire league.

that may be the worst argument/example in the history of life.

 

[Jntg4]

Oney for Manager!!!

 

[HighJump31]

but why? elaborate? what does he DO or doesnt do that you dont like?

1.) Micro-manages- pointless double switching late in games. For example- doing a "defensive purposes" substitution of Jon Jay in place of Lance Berkman. I'd never sacrifice one more Berkman at bat for a defensive substitution. Something like this happened several times in the early months. There's reason he's called "old and senile" among the fanbase.

2.) Plays favorites- This has always been been a knock on him. Started when he got to St. Louis. He basically forced Ozzie Smith into retirement by him acquiring Royce Clayton and benching Ozzie. Now days, everybody knows Tony loves "scrappy" players. Just look at the current Cardinal team- Ryan Theriot, Skip Schumaker (the opening day starting middle infield), Jon Jay, Corey Patterson, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz. And if he doesn't like you, you're gone- Ozzie Smith (St. Louis icon), Scott Rolen (haven't won a playoff game since he's been gone), Brendan Ryan (One of the best SS gloves in baseball, would easily take him over Theriot), Colby Rasmus (tons of potential, wasn't going to meet it in St. Louis with Tony always butting heads with him).

3.) Piggy backing on point 2, Plays guys that don't belong on the roster- Ryan Theriot at SS?? Any baseball fan knows this is a terrible option. It look them 5 months to figure out it was stupid when everybody else knew it when they announced the trade for him. Skip Schumaker is a 4th (or 5th) outfielder and was the starting 2nd baseman. Now with Furcal on the team Theriot is platooning 2nd with Schumaker, while Schumaker also plays some outfield now. Corey Patterson = useless. Go back to past seasons- Randy Winn, Pedro Feliz, Aaron Miles, Joe Thurston, Larry Bigbie. Pitchers- Ryan Franklin, Brian Tallet, Jason Isringhausen (in 06), Kip Wells, Sidney Ponson.

4.) Listening to Baseball Tonight today, Chris Singleton said something interesting. He said once Ryan Ludwick was traded to San Diego, the two were talking and Ludwick said "Wow, I didn't know how much St. Louis was hated by the rest of the league". Before that Singleton said St. Louis was known for complaining about how the balls were, or the lights, or the field or whatever. This is 100% Tony La Russa. Just this past series he complained to MLB about the Brewers stadium lighting, saying it was brighter for the Brewers so they could see the ball, and darker for the Cardinals so they had trouble seeing the ball. Come on, really? Nobody else in the league has said anything about this, except for the one and only, Tony La Russa. Also Dave Duncan said something about the Brewers stealing signs, whatever.

Basically it comes down to this- Tony is about 5 or 6 years past his prime. He uses the GM as a puppet to acquire and get rid of players Tony wants. He plays the most boring brand of baseball (don't expect any stolen bases whatsoever) and is senile and paranoid. If Tony does go to the Sox he'll keep Pierre and Rios in the outfield, run Viciedo out of town (because Tony doesn't like playing young guys unless you're Albert Pujols), and will platoon one or two or even three positions the entire season.

Dave Duncan's work with the pitching is what has let La Russa last this long. If he wouldn't have turned around Chris Carpenter, Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis, Daryl Kile, Matt Morris, etc. Tony would have been gone a long time ago probably. Also Albert Pujols coming along probably had something to do with it.

It's bad when I care more about how our top prospects are doing instead of how the big league team is doing. I like to keep track of the players that will be on the team once Tony La Russa brand baseball is over.

/rant :smoke:

EDIT: and might I add---hiring Mark McGwire as hitting coach. C'mon man

 

[JSpiwak35]

Second, you could have Earl Weaver managing the Cubs and they wouldn't be in contention.

They wouldn't be close to contention, they're an awful team, and it'd take a revamp of the entire roster to change that. But you gotta think that a decent, big name manager would at least HELP them a little bit.

 

[brett05]

Yep, I think he's probably the best pitching coach in the game. Imagine him here working with the younger guys.

Better then Cooper? Not anymore.

 

[icehogfan08]

Better then Cooper? Not anymore.

Look at the careers he's revamped, and the pitchers he's worked with.
Duncan > Coop

 

[Uman85]

Look at the '06 World Series. Winning with what many considered a mediocre pitching staff was amazing to me.

 

[DewsSox79]

What are you even trying to say? That you cannot comprehend how Ozzie isn't a "Big Name" outside of Chicago, and that he's not well-respected? HUH??!! That is laughable. If you think teams will be scrambling over each other in a race to sign Ozzie, then you must not follow baseball. Sorry, there is no other explanation.

The whole idea that the White Sox would have to replace some schlep like Guillen with a HOF manager like LaRussa is ridiculous. Furthermore, the idea put forth in that post of the Cubs not winning because they didn't follow-up Big Name Pinella with another Big Name manager is absurd, too. First, Pinella mailed it in the last couple seasons. Second, you could have Earl Weaver managing the Cubs and they wouldn't be in contention.

Bold 1- Never said he was well respected or a big name, you just stated he wasnt a big name because he wasnt well respected. Sorry, a person can be a big name and not be respected....thats all i was stating.

Bold 2- Never once said anything good about ozzie, I want him fired, and hope he doesnt get another job, i have been stating that all year long, so I have no idea where you got that from. you may want to figure out how to comprehend what you read.

Bold 3- Wrong poster, never said anything like that, again, learn to read.

 

[DewsSox79]

1.) Micro-manages- pointless double switching late in games. For example- doing a "defensive purposes" substitution of Jon Jay in place of Lance Berkman. I'd never sacrifice one more Berkman at bat for a defensive substitution. Something like this happened several times in the early months. There's reason he's called "old and senile" among the fanbase.

2.) Plays favorites- This has always been been a knock on him. Started when he got to St. Louis. He basically forced Ozzie Smith into retirement by him acquiring Royce Clayton and benching Ozzie. Now days, everybody knows Tony loves "scrappy" players. Just look at the current Cardinal team- Ryan Theriot, Skip Schumaker (the opening day starting middle infield), Jon Jay, Corey Patterson, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz. And if he doesn't like you, you're gone- Ozzie Smith (St. Louis icon), Scott Rolen (haven't won a playoff game since he's been gone), Brendan Ryan (One of the best SS gloves in baseball, would easily take him over Theriot), Colby Rasmus (tons of potential, wasn't going to meet it in St. Louis with Tony always butting heads with him).

3.) Piggy backing on point 2, Plays guys that don't belong on the roster- Ryan Theriot at SS?? Any baseball fan knows this is a terrible option. It look them 5 months to figure out it was stupid when everybody else knew it when they announced the trade for him. Skip Schumaker is a 4th (or 5th) outfielder and was the starting 2nd baseman. Now with Furcal on the team Theriot is platooning 2nd with Schumaker, while Schumaker also plays some outfield now. Corey Patterson = useless. Go back to past seasons- Randy Winn, Pedro Feliz, Aaron Miles, Joe Thurston, Larry Bigbie. Pitchers- Ryan Franklin, Brian Tallet, Jason Isringhausen (in 06), Kip Wells, Sidney Ponson.

4.) Listening to Baseball Tonight today, Chris Singleton said something interesting. He said once Ryan Ludwick was traded to San Diego, the two were talking and Ludwick said "Wow, I didn't know how much St. Louis was hated by the rest of the league". Before that Singleton said St. Louis was known for complaining about how the balls were, or the lights, or the field or whatever. This is 100% Tony La Russa. Just this past series he complained to MLB about the Brewers stadium lighting, saying it was brighter for the Brewers so they could see the ball, and darker for the Cardinals so they had trouble seeing the ball. Come on, really? Nobody else in the league has said anything about this, except for the one and only, Tony La Russa. Also Dave Duncan said something about the Brewers stealing signs, whatever.

Basically it comes down to this- Tony is about 5 or 6 years past his prime. He uses the GM as a puppet to acquire and get rid of players Tony wants. He plays the most boring brand of baseball (don't expect any stolen bases whatsoever) and is senile and paranoid. If Tony does go to the Sox he'll keep Pierre and Rios in the outfield, run Viciedo out of town (because Tony doesn't like playing young guys unless you're Albert Pujols), and will platoon one or two or even three positions the entire season.

Dave Duncan's work with the pitching is what has let La Russa last this long. If he wouldn't have turned around Chris Carpenter, Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis, Daryl Kile, Matt Morris, etc. Tony would have been gone a long time ago probably. Also Albert Pujols coming along probably had something to do with it.

It's bad when I care more about how our top prospects are doing instead of how the big league team is doing. I like to keep track of the players that will be on the team once Tony La Russa brand baseball is over.

/rant :smoke:

EDIT: and might I add---hiring Mark McGwire as hitting coach. C'mon man

Well atleast I got an explanation and I thank you for that. You have been with Larussa the entire time he has been with the Cards. I respect your opinion.

What you stated is all I asked for out of users here (whitesox fans) to explain why they did not want him, Im tired of message board users always taking what bernstein says as gospel. there are just way too many people here that need to have their own thought instead of "well bernstein said it so yeah! i dont want larussa either."

so thanks for the details boss!

 

[brett05]

Look at the 05 Sox staff. Look at how many careers Cooper has resurrected. Cooper right now is better than Duncan. Will he be better when he retires? Maybe

 

[X]

that may be the worst argument/example in the history of life.

rory thanked my post...thus implying that we agree.

 

[icehogfan08]

Look at the 05 Sox staff. Look at how many careers Cooper has resurrected. Cooper right now is better than Duncan. Will he be better when he retires? Maybe

I like Coop allot and think he is one of the better pitching coaches. I feel that Duncan would be an upgrade, and would possibly help with a new look coaching staff.

 

[DewsSox79]

if ozzie get fired which im hoping for, after thinking about it.....I want the whole entire regime gone including cooper.

 

[brett05]

I'm good with everyone leaving but Coop is clearly the teams most valuable commodity. Heck he's top hmmmm 10? Coaches in the game right now