valedictorian fights judges ban on leading crowd in prayer

[LordKOTL]

This wasnt my position.



However, I highly doubt that anyone would be "chastized, ostracized, and possibly dissallowed from continuing their graduation ceremony" for standing up and leaving.



But just as Xians are standing for their convictions, so must others. I have been in social situations where I have heard someone say "Well, I'm a Christian, so..." and I have walked away.

Actually, you'd be surprised. If I was chasitised and ostracised twice in my school years for refusing to say "under god" in the pledge (by students and faculty) (and just remaining silent for the under god part), I could have only imagined the outrage that would have happened if I walked out of the graduation ceremony if our valedictorians tried to lead in a prayer. And this in an area that is considered one of the most irreligious in the country.



Not that it would have bothered me, personally. But not everyone has a thick skin to just not give a shit what people think about them, and not everyone has a think skin to brush off people dissenting with their belief system. I'd put even money that someone of that graduation class would claim that a student "ruined their graduation" if they just walked out during a led prayer.

 

[supraman]

Actually, you'd be surprised. If I was chasitised and ostracised twice in my school years for refusing to say "under god" in the pledge (by students and faculty) (and just remaining silent for the under god part), I could have only imagined the outrage that would have happened if I walked out of the graduation ceremony if our valedictorians tried to lead in a prayer. And this in an area that is considered one of the most irreligious in the country.



Not that it would have bothered me, personally. But not everyone has a thick skin to just not give a shit what people think about them, and not everyone has a think skin to brush off people dissenting with their belief system. I'd put even money that someone of that graduation class would claim that a student "ruined their graduation" if they just walked out during a led prayer.

Twice out of 13-14 years of school (depending on pre-school or not). That's not a hell of a lot. That's rather small really. That is going to happen, can't please everyone, when you do all you end up doing is pissing everyone off.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Which is my my wedding is consisting of no more than 18 people total, and I know everyone

. About the most "offensive" thing about it is that there's no alcohol allowed on the premesis, because the insurance on the venue for alcohol could cost more then the combined airfare of my fiancee, her parents, and her brother's flights out here from Slovakia combined.



Seriously, in an ideal world, I think either the Valedictorian will just opt for a moement of silence, or she can continue the led prayer, but there would be nothing wrong with any students that would not want to participate using that time to leave the room and no one take offense to that or tells them to "just put up with it". Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world.

LOL and bummer about the booze. Personally for me I am all over a smaller and more intimate wedding with the people you actually know. We had less than 50...most if it my gigantic family of siblings. We wanted those that have been the most involved with our lives and would continue to be so after the wedding.





I am with you on the let those leave that want no part of it, and we just do not know if this was even a considered option (I for one experience more of that possibility in my life including the military). Conversely, I am betting this was a quick ruling rather than hashing out details. Considering this was a long standing tradition it would be no surprise to be a quick ruling to reduce the debate and see the reaction from the community. Though sometimes hasty decisions are worse than lack of tolerance....

 

[LordKOTL]

Twice out of 13-14 years of school (depending on pre-school or not). That's not a hell of a lot. That's rather small really. That is going to happen, can't please everyone, when you do all you end up doing is pissing everyone off.

The thing is...it shouldn't have happened in the 1st place. I mean, who the hell pays attention to how someone else is saying the pledge? Keep in mind, the issue in both cases was brought up by a student, not the teacher. I can get into a whole diatribe on this..but I won't. I'll distill it down here: I was well within my rights to *not* say "under god"--especially since it wasn't disrupting anything.

I am with you on the let those leave that want no part of it, and we just do not know if this was even a considered option (I for one experience more of that possibility in my life including the military). Conversely, I am betting this was a quick ruling rather than hashing out details. Considering this was a long standing tradition it would be no surprise to be a quick ruling to reduce the debate and see the reaction from the community. Though sometimes hasty decisions are worse than lack of tolerance....

I agree. I think on the onverse side people tend to overreact and fear the counter-offensive backlash. Personally, If I was in charce, I would sit the Valedictorian down and say this: "You have a choice. You can either drop it down to a moment of silence, or you can lead the prayer but you cannot be offended at all if people decide to leave. If we force people to stay during your prayer we are viloating the establishment clause. The choice is yours."

 

[The Count Dante]

Actually, you'd be surprised. If I was chasitised and ostracised twice in my school years for refusing to say "under god" in the pledge (by students and faculty) (and just remaining silent for the under god part), I could have only imagined the outrage that would have happened if I walked out of the graduation ceremony if our valedictorians tried to lead in a prayer. And this in an area that is considered one of the most irreligious in the country.



Not that it would have bothered me, personally. But not everyone has a thick skin to just not give a shit what people think about them, and not everyone has a think skin to brush off people dissenting with their belief system. I'd put even money that someone of that graduation class would claim that a student "ruined their graduation" if they just walked out during a led prayer.

I was chastised and ostracized when the Air Jordon Black Red and White high tops came out and my folks didnt want to sink 100 bones on the real ones so my mom bought the pseudo knock offs for 1/2 the price.



Grade school is a *****.

 

[Tater]

I was chastised and ostracized when the Air Jordon Black Red and White high tops came out and my folks didnt want to sink 100 bones on the real ones so my mom bought the pseudo knock offs for 1/2 the price.



Grade school is a *****.

Bah!!

I was made to wear Toughskin jeans from Sears.

Oh the shame.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I was chastised and ostracized when the Air Jordon Black Red and White high tops came out and my folks didnt want to sink 100 bones on the real ones so my mom bought the pseudo knock offs for 1/2 the price.



Grade school is a *****.

If only they had the foresight to get you the Converse 'high tops', then you would have been cooler several years later.

 

[jakobeast]

Bah!!

I was made to wear Toughskin jeans from Sears.

Oh the shame.

Oh yeah? Try wearing Toughskin Huskys.That was my lot in grade school.



Eventually though I got bigger then those that made fun of me, and a well placed punch to the nose of the kid that made fun of me wearing those ended the razzing for the rest of the grades I would attend.

 

[TSD]

What about having cookouts with hamburgers if you have an indian student should that not be allowed. What if the celebration is on a friday and you have no fish, what about the jews.



See how quickly it gets silly.



Again if a teacher or administrator wanted to say the prayer then sure that doesnt fly. But this is a student, someone not employed by the state.

Its doubtful there wouldnt be alternatives. Even in the army they even provided vegetarian MRE's for people who dont eat meat or cant eat a certain meat.



In fact the Army could be accused of supporting islam what with the crescent moon on all the MRE boxes.

 

[TSD]

I was chastised and ostracized when the Air Jordon Black Red and White high tops came out and my folks didnt want to sink 100 bones on the real ones so my mom bought the pseudo knock offs for 1/2 the price.



Grade school is a *****.

Thats no fuckin joke. I wish I didnt go to jr. high in the hood. I got reamed for wearing payless shoes, and finally my mom found a pair of nikes at enough of a discount.

 

[bri]

Just like in Confessions of a Shopaholic where her mom made her get those creepy shoes.

 

[LordKOTL]

Bah!!

I was made to wear Toughskin jeans from Sears.

Oh the shame.

Yeah...same here. Unfortunately CPS doesn't view that as Child abuse.

 

[Tater]

Yeah...same here. Unfortunately CPS doesn't view that as Child abuse.

LOL.

Those things were like wearing cardboard weren't they?