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He didn't have wins. MVP has to do with wins more than Cy Young does.
He didn't have wins. MVP has to do with wins more than Cy Young does.
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You can't really claim a guy is valuable to his team if they aren't winning. Lol
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Ahhh, yes...wins.
By default, which type of players have a higher direct correlation to quantity of wins based on the number of opportunities to win games?
"Everyday" players.
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That's true. I hate how wins are given to pitchers. Especially when it comes to runners they leave on base. Wins usually don't have that much to do with pitchers, but that's just how it is.
If a pitcher wants to win the MVP, he has to have a lot of wins and dominate in the other areas.
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The difference is in their aggregate value. I know a lot of you guys don't believe in WAR but flawed as it is, it allows you to make a comparison between players, and importantly because it measures the players value in terms of runs created or runs prevented, it allows you to directly compare pitchers to position players. In 2010, Felix Hernandez was not clearly better than Josh Hamilton. In 2011, Verlander was on a level with Jose Bautista and Jacoby Ellsbury. Therefore a vote for Verlander for MVP was more defensible this year than a vote for Hernandez last year.
There's also the whole "he was on a winning team" thing, which probably helped Verlander quite a bit and penalized Bautista and Ellsbury, and by extension, also penalized Hernandez last year. The shiny 20+ win record looks nice too.
Never said the system was foolproof.
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Simple solution considering how the game has changed: Cy Young for pitchers; MVPs for non-pitchers.
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FIP should be one of the only things used as a stat for pitchers. It has flaws too, but it's much better than ERA and wayyy better than judging based on wins.
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I think they should have addressed that in the new CBA, but maybe it doesn't technically have anything to do with the MLB itself. I don't know.
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At least I haven't seen anyone try to nullify/negate Verlander's value by stating his 8.6 WAR is meaningless considering the Kitties won the division by 16 games. :goodgrief:
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I think FIP is better used as a future predictor of performance rather than as a true measure of that pitcher's value, although FIP is one of the components in FanGraphs' version of WAR.
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Yeah, I'm sure they did that with Ellsbury and Bautista. But again, if they're all in the same range, you can't say that Verlander wasn't deserving. He's probably not the ideal MVP, but he deserved the votes he got.
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then Miggy should've won it. I mean the dude only hit .344
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CC earned more votes AND points than Felix (granted, his 1 vote was of higher value) in 2010 for MVP when Felix earned the Cy Young. :smh:
Bad.
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There's another one that's like FIP that I actually like better, but I forgot what it's called. There's some hilarious and informative YouTube videos explaining FIP and other pitching stats. I wish I could find them again.
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Rofl, read the comments attached to the article. Some of them are good and I agree with most of them.
This guy should be removed from voting for MVP.
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I don't think it should go that far. At least he was man enough to show why he voted the way he did.
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Absolutely un-justified. You can't compare the two sports. Football is a more complete team sport. Baseball is A LOT more 1 vs 1 and the pitcher is there for 27 outs. On a game-to-game-basis, a pitcher is a million times more important then a QB in football.
And you think as a position player, Ellisbury should have won MVP? Rofl. Fucking hilarious. Ellisbury is surrounded by 3-5 potential MVPs in that lineup and they completely choked this year, yet he would have won it if Verlander didn't. It would have been the biggest joke of an award EVER if Ellisbury won it this year.
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Sure, he was man enough to explain why he didn't even include Verlander, great for him.
His reasoning is absolutely horrible. He doesn't deserve the vote.
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I get where he's coming from, but I don't agree. It makes sense that he doesn't think the most valuable player can be MVP if he only plays around 20% of the games.
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Okay, you have conflicting opinions here (atleast it seems to me). You see where he is coming from, but don't agree, but then support his argument?
Please explain
(and I mean that in a nice way.. not sure what you mean)And btw, for anyone that thinks pitchers shouldn't be included, when they play their 20% of the games, they pitch to every single batter, they are the single most important person for every out of the game. In baseball, pitchers are king because it's a 1 on 1 sport. Pitchers are far more important then QBs in football or goalies in hockey.
Pitchers for MVP = A-Ok.
Staff online NOW
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bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up