Vermette

[TCD]

Wait what? Its Qs fault now that Vermette has been horrible since he came here? Because Vermette was asked to play wing for 4-6 games after being given massive ice time at center yet produced nothing? Thats the excuse we are using here for Vermette. Its Q again?

When players play like shit for long stretches like Vermette did at center do you tell him to "shake it off" or do you try something new to see if it helps and produces something? Little tid bit..Vermette was playing horrible hockey while giving a lot of ice time and like Q said when you have other guys ahead of the curve you have to make decisions..tough ones. Yah yah yah we all want to see if Kane is the guy that can raise up Vermette, including myself. We still will so dont get panties all tied up over one game where he is going to probably be benched. Let the shit play out. Kane at least has a history of playing with Shaw at center or Richards or even Toews if he gets slid up for a shift or two. Kane has zero history playing with Vermette who has shown zero productive value regardless. So as a coach Q plays the safe card for game 1. Thinking about it on any other terms than that is just wrong and a stretch.

Here is something funny also...even norstrom has been more productive than vermette when it comes down to role and system. So yah..why the **** should vermette get the ice time even on a fourth line where he certainly doesnt belong?

 

[PatrickShart]

Vermette has 2g his last 38gms

Fucking Q was in his mind even when he was playing center in PHX.....he knew he was going to play wing a few games and get screwed over

 

[Pez68]

Ah yes, Vermette and his "massive" playing time at center. :lol:


Let me help you:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...iewName=timeOnIce&sort=avgTOIPerGame&ord=desc


It is Q's fault he is once again NOT going to ice the best possible roster or lineup come playoff time... Sitting Vermette in favor of Nordstrom is criminally stupid. This is pretty much the only fucking place on the planet where I have seen someone try and defend that decision. There is absolutely nothing Nordstrom does better than Vermette. If you're going to sit someone because of colossal fucking SUCK, you sit that useless dipshit Versteeg before anyone. Speaking of the 4th line and someone that "certainly doesn't belong", you sit Teuvo, who is probably the absolutely WORST choice for a 4th liner on the entire roster. You don't sit the guy you just traded a solid defensive prospect and a fucking 1st round draft pick for. You don't sit a guy who addresses an ACTUAL need on the roster. You don't sit a guy that has been a great PK guy for years, when your PK has been struggling. You don't sit Vermette before SEVERAL players that will be dressing Wednesday night.

It's inexcusable.

And the lines the Hawks have been practicing with? Good fucking luck getting the offense out of their slump. But once again, it will take the Hawks looking like dogshit and being down in the series before Qless pulls his head out of his fucking ass and actually puts together lines that make sense.

 

[ClydeLee]

If you think any factor of what a players value was from what he was gotten for or what his salary is should play into a COACHES decision on him, you're

The routine labeling of things and viewing things in typical labels like 4th line which don't even apply to what is occurring in practical form on ice isn't wise. TT may not seem fitting to someone, yet hmm in practical effect while next to Kruger, they've created some of the best pressure and moments of a unit for the last 10 game stretch or so. So maybe results and things that show up in effective manners should take more credence.

To ignore what is actually happening on the ice in favor of pre-conceived ideas and labels is limiting the perspective and thinking of a situation. In all situations, in every aspect of life.

 

[Variable]

All I'm saying is they have one of the better defensive centers and PKers in the league. Whether he's scoring or not, at least play him in those roles. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Sounds like Vermette is not dressing tomorrow due to poor performance. Q's words after todays practice.

http://www.letsgohawks.net/2015/04/14/antonie-vermette-on-the-outside-looking-in/

When asked about Vermette’s status moving forward, Coach Q replied, “Depth is something organizationally you need and some guys are ahead of other guys now based on performance. We’ve got to make decisions.”

 

[TCD]

14 mins average per game is a good amount of ice time for a second liner pez. Look at his shifts per game also..plenty of ice time to produce and show production. Pleeeenty. 3 assists in 19 games as a hawk. 2 goals in his last 38 games. Enough said. Spin this shit all you want and blame Q as you always do when a player simply isnt showing productive prowless with the minutes he has been given and the shifts he has been given. Bet if nordstrom got the extra 4-5 mins a game and extra shifts he would be out producing Vermette. Just face it guys..vermettes not as good as we thought he would be.

Again kane can probably elevate vermette more. And we will see them i am sure through the series. For now vermette sits because vermette hasnt shown why he shouldnt at all!! Save the " it looks better on paper with a name like vermette on it" how many times you guys need to be told the game isnt played on paper?

We can continue this conversation tomorrow i am sure once we know the game one results. If the hawks lose i am sure that will be Qs fault for not starting vermette. If the hawks win Q wont get an ounce of credit.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

14 mins average per game is a good amount of ice time for a second liner pez. Look at his shifts per game also..plenty of ice time to produce and show production. Pleeeenty. 3 assists in 19 games as a hawk. 2 goals in his last 38 games. Enough said. Spin this shit all you want and blame Q as you always do when a player simply isnt showing productive prowless with the minutes he has been given and the shifts he has been given. Bet if nordstrom got the extra 4-5 mins a game and extra shifts he would be out producing Vermette. Just face it guys..vermettes not as good as we thought he would be.

Again kane can probably elevate vermette more. And we will see them i am sure through the series. For now vermette sits because vermette hasnt shown why he shouldnt at all!! Save the " it looks better on paper with a name like vermette on it" how many times you guys need to be told the game isnt played on paper?

We can continue this conversation tomorrow i am sure once we know the game one results. If the hawks lose i am sure that will be Qs fault for not starting vermette. If the hawks win Q wont get an ounce of credit.

jizz jizz jizz

ok

are you done yet?

 

[Pez68]

If you think any factor of what a players value was from what he was gotten for or what his salary is should play into a COACHES decision on him, you're

The routine labeling of things and viewing things in typical labels like 4th line which don't even apply to what is occurring in practical form on ice isn't wise. TT may not seem fitting to someone, yet hmm in practical effect while next to Kruger, they've created some of the best pressure and moments of a unit for the last 10 game stretch or so. So maybe results and things that show up in effective manners should take more credence.

To ignore what is actually happening on the ice in favor of pre-conceived ideas and labels is limiting the perspective and thinking of a situation. In all situations, in every aspect of life.

I didn't label them, TCD did. I was just using his logic to debunk his rationalization for the decision not to dress Vermette. In absolutely no scenario is Nordstrom a better option than Vermette. None. NOT dressing Vermette because of "performance" is ridiculous. Why doesn't that logic apply to all the other assholes on this team that have been a fucking disaster for months on end now? Versteeg, Bickell, Rundblad, Rozsival, Nordstrom, Richards, all dressing tomorrow. All have been WORSE than Vermette in every way possible during this last stretch of the season. All have been given ample opportunity up and down the lineup to prove themselves, and failed. Yet, the coach picks the new guy to "send a message".

He's sending a message alright, but it isn't to the players.

So maybe results and things that show up in effective manners should take more credence.

To ignore what is actually happening on the ice in favor of pre-conceived ideas and labels is limiting the perspective and thinking of a situation. In all situations, in every aspect of life.

When has Nordstrom done ANYTHING to support what you just said? He's fucking useless and has contributed absolutely nothing in every opportunity he has been given. Even career 4th liner Desjardins contributes more. ****, Bollig had more of a purpose out there.

Vermette hasn't done shit since coming to the Hawks, but it is STILL more than what Nordstrom brings.

P.S. Versteeg in the last 19 games has 3 points and is a -2 just like Vermette. And this asshole is still getting power play time... Obviously a better option.

 

[TCD]

What exactly has Vermette done better than Norstrom?

Hey i dont like Nordstrom much at all either..but what has Vermette done that is better with more minutes?

Its not a vermette vs nordstrom fight here..both guys need to be better but nordstrom doesnt get the minutes vermette does and veremette doesnt do nything with those minutes he gets. So its pretty much a wash anyways. Both guys need to be better and im sure nordstrom will miss games also at some point. Again lets wait and see how this shit plays out.

Vermette has more expectations and experience on nordstrom pez. Thats the difference. Get it?

 

[Pez68]

Considering Nordstrom does nothing well at all, everything?

Vermette has pedigree and experience. Which is exactly why he should be in the lineup for game 1. Especially when you're dressing a complete zero like Nordstrom. Or a guy that actually hurts you more than he helps you, in Versteeg.

In case you missed it, NOBODY has produced in the last 20 or so games. Why would Vermette be any different, coming to a new team, playing with new linemates, and learning a new system?

Wait and see. Yeah, seems to happen every fucking year in the playoffs. Then Q pulls his stubborn fucking head out of his ass, ices a lineup and puts together lines that make sense, and the Hawks miraculously play better. I'm sick of it. Ice the best lineup and puts guys in a position to succeed from the fucking start. If Q could eliminate the "WTF" decisions he makes, like putting Versteeg, Handzus, and a double-shifted Kane on the ice after an icing in game 7 last year, the Hawks might be shooting for three cups in a row. How long did it take for him to realize Handzus was only hindering Kane's game last year? And once he did? Kane was ON FIRE.

I'd rather not wait until the Hawks are down 3-1 before using common sense this time around. Thanks.

 

[Rex]

I picked Vermette in my pool though...

 

[Tater]

Hold on a second there, sparky. I'm formally declaring shenanigans on this post. How doth one poop without simultaneously peeing?

Hey, everybody, this guy's a phony!

Allow me to be a character witness here. I sometimes pee as I'm pooping.

 

[Variable]

When will it be allowed to criticize Q? What would need to happen? Not say he's a horrible coach or anything, just simply criticize his decisions. You know.....discussing hockey things on a hockey forum.

 

[Popinski Soda]

Do you mind, Variable?

Allow me to be a character witness here. I sometimes pee as I'm pooping.

Sorry, Tater. Now where were we? Ah, yes...

Sometimes? You can't poop and not pee, you crazy ****! That's just like, a fact of science.

 

[TCD]

When will it be allowed to criticize Q? What would need to happen? Not say he's a horrible coach or anything, just simply criticize his decisions. You know.....discussing hockey things on a hockey forum.

Critique him all you want to. Aint no rules on being a hockey fan if there were 80% of people on twitter would be taken to the showers.

Honestly coach critiquing doesn't bother me if the critique has evidence to support it. Much like you and Pez and many others I too have been baffled with some of Qs lines in the past esp in the playoffs and esp his defensive pairings which really can rub me the wrong way. I agree how many times do certain same experiments need to be made before they are cast aside when they don't work. Like splitting up Keith and Seabs all the time only to unite them again. That's the one that gets me more than others. I actually don't care too much what he does with the forwards as much as others esp when the forward roster is relative healthy I think they can handle what is thrown at them. It's his blueline pairings and usage that gets me most. I don't think neither Keith or Seabs are ever at their best when split up. Nor do I think Hammer and Oduya are at their best wehn split either. I am in the camp that I believe you stick with those two pairings as much as you can.

I don't like coaching critique when it is made on speculation though or before the facts come out or evidence is there to support a critique. We don't know what the team is going to play like tomorrow so any preconcieved ideas that Q has fucked up by not playing Vermette is heresay and speculation guessing games. With Kane back we are basically looking at the same team as last year anyways without Vermette in the lineup. Maybe better than last year with Richards there and not Handzus? Don't know yet. Sure putting Vermette in there may just make the team even much more better but based on solid facts right now Vermette isn't and hasn't added anything to the team..so he sits in favor of line combos that are more familliar (even though not perfect). I am actually probably going to miss Ben Smith more than anything this playoffs. Vermette isn't even in my thought process to be honest..im more concerned with Ben Smith not being there to give an honest shift each and every time. Anyways...rambling,....

I wouldnt throw Vermette on the 4th line because he has zero experience with that line and those players. I would rather have Nordstrom be where he has been all year and I feel more confident in that than putting Vermette there who will then need to play the 4th line system which he hasn't done ever..ever..on this team or any other. Does that make sense? TT probably shouldnt be on the 4th either I agree on that so if they want to rotate TT and Vermette in and out on that line? go for it and that is probably what could happen. Nordstrom isn't the concern for me even though I too don't think he is that great. But he is used to the 4th line role that is why he sticks there. Him and Kruger don't exactly have poor chemistry. Nor do Nordstrom/Kruger/TT. Going to admit ti though is is the worst 4th line the Hawks have had the last 5 years in my opinion and Ben Smith not being there is a big 4th line hole. Desjardine is fine but Ben was much better overall.

But man oh man. It really does ring true though that Q gets a lot of grief when the team is down and gets very very little credit when the team is ridding high. I think it is that double standard that gets to the most of us. Q has done countless good things with this club durring his time here. Some very subtle and some very clear.

 

[Variable]

Well when the team is riding high because of a coaching decision like to FINALLY take Handzus off the second line and free Kane from the ball and anchor and it took all year long and into the playoffs for it to happen and WOW it actually worked when he did it, how much credit do you think he should get? It was blatant to everyone but him (and PMX) that it's what needed to happen months prior.

Some of his line up decisions I like, (using Hammer and Oduya as the main defensive pairing, splitting up Kane and Toews most of the time,etc) but those aren't of the "genius" level type of moves some people want to attribute it as. And his head scratcher decisions far outnumber those ones.

 

[TCD]

Don't know how much credit Q should get. A lot more than some fans give him though. The credit he recieves from his peers is that he continues to keep a job and has had a full time coaching gig in the nhl for many years now so he must be doing something right in the eyes of his peer group. I have heard some pretty silly things from fans though such as "Q has lost his players". Heard that one a lot last year during skids. Don't think getting to a game 7 conference final OT is evidence of a coach losing his players. That has been my favorite fan Q rip yet.."losing his players".

He is a good coach and a great players coach. Don't hear many players ever rip on Joel Quennville through his career. Never heard of any roster players demanding trades since he came to Chicago. Sure a winning attitude and roster talent has most to do with that but never underestimate a good players coach who carrys the same winning attitude and work ethic that spreads. And Q getting pissy sometimes and cranking out is something I love also. I don't care for emotionally subtle coaches nor do I like coaches who do nothing but throw spazz attacks..Q is a good balance lol. Honestly think that's good for players also to have a coach like that. Won't baby them (unless you are Hossa and Toews) but also will give players a fair chance and I do honestly believe Q does just that and I know many disagree.

I will say this. Q has helped win hockey series with his coaching. Canucks 2010. That was Q winning a series as much as any of the players in it. Probably the best series Q has coached in his time here. He has played big roles in other series but he owned that Canucks series. I also think he has owned Hitchcocks ass through his career like a boss. Has struggled against some coaches has dominated others. Tis the life of a coach.

With that said I also don't think hockey is a largely coached game like other pro sports. Football and to a lesser extent baseball seem to be games larger impacted by coaching decisions. Esp Football as it's pretty much a coaching game in my opinion first and foremost. Hockey while has coaching neccessities and while coaching has impact... it also is a game with a lot more freedom for the players to run amuck out there on the playing surface. much like basketball and team sports where its a continual flow (unless its a last 2 mins of a basketball game).

 

[ClydeLee]

There's plenty of good times to criticize a coach, but people who do it also don't seem to want to evaluate it on grand scales across all coaches. Every teams in depth looking fans will pick out countless choices and moves that failed or seemed completely moronic. Babcock by most people is considered the greatest coach in the league and he is constantly for years now being nitpicked by Wings fans and there's potential he's gone from the team now. (I think no matter how good you'll get scrutinized plenty but also there is a lasting period when it is fitting time for a coach and an organization to part ways)

Who are some other great coaches we've seen praised as of late in seasons, Julien and Sutter for doing things their way and making the most of times when it counts. Well now plenty of gripe is had upon them with missing the playoffs, people think there may be an players issue with them. Or they're thinking they rely too much on their systemic ways. It's just a cycle of odd perspectives that show how fickle things can turn out.

Fans constantly complain about the lack of trust to play younger players... you see it from nearly every coach on consistently winning teams. All across the league, because that's generally how it goes. Sometimes you get awful teams like Oilers Eakans having that stated about them but it's more than not universal for routine success. Todd Mclellan is one who gets more credit than not for doing things like that, but he's also been a guy who never got his team over a jump above their expectations.

I'm all for ripping coaches; I'm for doing it sensible ways but I don't get how people don't understand simple reasoning in choices. It's not reasoning or thought processes they have to agree with, we are people capable of grasping what we definitively think is bad or dissatisfying. No one is gonna be some perfect rational choice making machine but that's not always the best solution anyway, it's definitively shown.

And I don't think Vermy won't play game 2, unless every single line has themselves a nice 5v5 goal and all around dominant performance.

 

[Tater]

Do you mind, Variable?



Sorry, Tater. Now where were we? Ah, yes...

Sometimes? You can't poop and not pee, you crazy ****! That's just like, a fact of science.

I have strong will power. I can hold it in if I feel like it.