Wade loyalty comments

[Kush77]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...s-dwyane-wade-chicago20100526,0,1531138.story

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Shakes]

Just a shot in the propaganda war for free agents. Wade wants to sell Miami, and with all the attention the Bulls have been getting, he needs to shoot them down.

 

[TheStig]

Sigh, such a poor attempt at a insult. Most of us have been complaining they keep people around too long. Seriously, does anyone not think Captain Feisty won't have a job with the bulls after he retires. MJ might not have a role here but Pippen still collects a paycheck for his free lance writing on bulls.com. Sam Smith actually wrote a good article about this (waiting for hell to freeze over or the world to end).


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_forman_100527.html

 

[Fred]

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

 

[Fred]

And before someone tell me, "He paid Jordan 30 million..."

read this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TYMBsJ_GbEYC&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=reinsdorf+I'm+going+to+regret+this&source=bl&ots=zIEi7cygsY&sig=fCC1dg_tEsIOLKqcENv29qEULVY&hl=en&ei=Hjr_S5qeK5WINdqAtTs&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=reinsdorf%20I'm%20going%20to%20regret%20this&f=false

1. Wait till it loads.
2. Scroll the page to 241
3. Read Page 241.
4. Shut the hell up.

 

[Shakes]

The question that I want to know: if Wade values loyalty so much why did he sign a 3 year deal so he'd have the option of switching teams with the other FAs? You can't have it both ways, don't be accusing others of being disloyal when you're hedging your bets yourself.

 

[TheStig]

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

Really? Bulls employees pushing their product? The horror. At least they didn't make up stuff.

Are you really gonna make that point. The heat have three players from their organization. Since that point the bulls have pax, king, brown, bj, pip, myers, wennington and cartwright. Thats almost three times as many and thats only including guys on our roster since 88 and on.

As far as I recall they did pay MJ. Not renogitating a contract Pip asked for isn't really something you can put on the bulls, this isn't the nfl and Krause was the problem with Phil and MJ. You really wanted a near 33 yr old pip back on a long term deal after reoccurring back problems with probably no Mj or Phil? At least argue for Grant. BG I understand but I don't think they killed the dynasty. MJ and Phil knew they were welcome back and could get whatever they wanted. They didn't want to come back.

Listen, I don't like JR as much as anyone on here but keeping the dynasty together and being loyal to people aren't his short falls. Being cheap, stubborn and needing everyone to kiss the ring are his problems.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

The question that I want to know: if Wade values loyalty so much why did he sign a 3 year deal so he'd have the option of switching teams with the other FAs? You can't have it both ways, don't be accusing others of being disloyal when you're hedging your bets yourself.

He signed a three year deal because he is eligible for a bigger portion of the cap now then if he were still under a long term deal. Not to mention the clock restarts and he will get a deal that covers him through 35 instead of 31 or 32.

 

[Shakes]

If he signed the standard 5 year extension he could sign a new extension next year. It'd actually work out better for him, because it extends his next contract (likely to be his last big one) out another year.

The reason he signed a short contract is because he didn't want to commit.

 

[Fred]

TheStig wrote:

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

Really? Bulls employees pushing their product? The horror. At least they didn't make up stuff.

Are you really gonna make that point. The heat have three players from their organization. Since that point the bulls have pax, king, brown, bj, pip, myers, wennington and cartwright. Thats almost three times as many and thats only including guys on our roster since 88 and on.

As far as I recall they did pay MJ. Not renogitating a contract Pip asked for isn't really something you can put on the bulls, this isn't the nfl and Krause was the problem with Phil and MJ. You really wanted a near 33 yr old pip back on a long term deal after reoccurring back problems with probably no Mj or Phil? At least argue for Grant. BG I understand but I don't think they killed the dynasty. MJ and Phil knew they were welcome back and could get whatever they wanted. They didn't want to come back.

Listen, I don't like JR as much as anyone on here but keeping the dynasty together and being loyal to people aren't his short falls. Being cheap, stubborn and needing everyone to kiss the ring are his problems.

When you make a point that the Heat have only 3 former players working for their organization, then you aren't just "pushing their (Bulls) product". Let me recall...how many former Bulls did the 1988 Bulls team have working for the organization? Johnny Kerr....dare I say less than 3? That team was 22 years old, as the Heat are today. That's a much better comparison.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

If he signed the standard 5 year extension he could sign a new extension next year. It'd actually work out better for him, because it extends his next contract (likely to be his last big one) out another year.

The reason he signed a short contract is because he didn't want to commit.

I'm pretty sure he could only get a 3 yr ext next year like kobe and gasol just got. So it would be a 4 yr thing from this summer instead of signing a 6 yr deal. Plus he would be making less next year. I'm sure flexibility played into a bit but it is mostly financial.

 

[TheStig]

Fred wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

Really? Bulls employees pushing their product? The horror. At least they didn't make up stuff.

Are you really gonna make that point. The heat have three players from their organization. Since that point the bulls have pax, king, brown, bj, pip, myers, wennington and cartwright. Thats almost three times as many and thats only including guys on our roster since 88 and on.

As far as I recall they did pay MJ. Not renogitating a contract Pip asked for isn't really something you can put on the bulls, this isn't the nfl and Krause was the problem with Phil and MJ. You really wanted a near 33 yr old pip back on a long term deal after reoccurring back problems with probably no Mj or Phil? At least argue for Grant. BG I understand but I don't think they killed the dynasty. MJ and Phil knew they were welcome back and could get whatever they wanted. They didn't want to come back.

Listen, I don't like JR as much as anyone on here but keeping the dynasty together and being loyal to people aren't his short falls. Being cheap, stubborn and needing everyone to kiss the ring are his problems.

When you make a point that the Heat have only 3 former players working for their organization, then you aren't just "pushing their (Bulls) product". Let me recall...how many former Bulls did the 1988 Bulls team have working for the organization? Johnny Kerr....dare I say less than 3? That team was 22 years old, as the Heat are today. That's a much better comparison.

No, its a direct point since it was used against us. The truth is always the best defense. Your calling a point made against your point as some sort of cheap shot. If it is, Wade shouldn't have tried to make that point or at least have his facts straight. What does pre 88 matter? It wansn't the current regime. The loyalty started with JR. He is the owner now and the guy who is trying to lure the top fa, not the guy who owned the team before.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

I'm pretty sure he could only get a 3 yr ext next year like kobe and gasol just got. So it would be a 4 yr thing from this summer instead of signing a 6 yr deal.

I looked it up, he could get 4 additional seasons, not the 5 like I thought, because the existing contract's remaining season counts against the 5 you're allowed. In that case you're right, he ends up better off with a 6 year deal this year.

Plus he would be making less next year.

Although he didn't know it at the time he signed, he'd probably be making more next year, due to the cap going down. His current contract would pay him 17.1 million next year, which corresponds to a max deal on a 57 million dollar cap (which looks unlikely).

I'm sure flexibility played into a bit but it is mostly financial.

Well, money, flexibility, whatever we want to call it, we know it's a load of crap when he talks about how loyal he is. Just like everyone else in the NBA, he's in it for himself.

 

[Dpauley23]

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

What the hell are you talking about not paying Pippen? They gave him an extra 30 million dollars in a sign and trade for no reason. Then they resign for 10 million when he should have gotten the vet miminum. As for Gordon what the did he do for the franchise. Get them to the 2nd round. Doesn't mean he has to be extra loyal. Don't give me the crap about Deng getting more because he didn't. 30 percent defered in his contract so it was really 6/53 million. Gordon got the better offer

 

[Dpauley23]

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

Also go read Phil's pre-game comments about the Bulls. Seems like he thought they were pretty loyal

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

I'm pretty sure he could only get a 3 yr ext next year like kobe and gasol just got. So it would be a 4 yr thing from this summer instead of signing a 6 yr deal.

I looked it up, he could get 4 additional seasons, not the 5 like I thought, because the existing contract's remaining season counts against the 5 you're allowed. In that case you're right, he ends up better off with a 6 year deal this year.

Plus he would be making less next year.

Although he didn't know it at the time he signed, he'd probably be making more next year, due to the cap going down. His current contract would pay him 17.1 million next year, which corresponds to a max deal on a 57 million dollar cap (which looks unlikely).

I'm sure flexibility played into a bit but it is mostly financial.

Well, money, flexibility, whatever we want to call it, we know it's a load of crap when he talks about how loyal he is. Just like everyone else in the NBA, he's in it for himself.

I still think he gets more next year since he is eligible for 30% of the cap instead of 25%. Plus the extra year. I really think it was about the money, all he lost was security.

 

[Fred]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Fred wrote:

I think Wade is absolutely right. Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky are on a PR rampage trying to disparage the Heat because the Bulls have hired more former players.

The Bulls have been around since 1966. The Heat have been around since 1988. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE FORMER PLAYERS WORKING FOR THE TEAM! That's a completely moronic argument.

All that matters is this:

The Bulls didn't do everything possible to keep the Jordan-Jackson-Pippen combo together. Enough said. If you can't show loyalty to those 3 men, who did far more for your franchise than any others, then you open yourself up to criticism, and valid criticism in my opinion. Who gives a crap if you show loyalty to Jerry Krause or Randy Brown. You don't have to pay serious dollars to Jerry Krause, Randy Brown, Bill Wennington, John Paxson, or the other list that Sam brought up. You absolutely DO have to pay Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, and Gordon. The Bulls chose not to.

Jordan, Pippen, Gordon....the 3 best Bulls in the past 25 years....all of them left town to play for other teams because the Bulls weren't loyal enough. You know Jordan wanted Jackson...Reinsdorf sides with Krause over Jackson. You underpay Pippen. You pull a contract off the table on Gordon. Sam and Chuck can scream all they want. Wade brings up valid points.

What the hell are you talking about not paying Pippen? They gave him an extra 30 million dollars in a sign and trade for no reason. Then they resign for 10 million when he should have gotten the vet miminum. As for Gordon what the did he do for the franchise. Get them to the 2nd round. Doesn't mean he has to be extra loyal. Don't give me the crap about Deng getting more because he didn't. 30 percent defered in his contract so it was really 6/53 million. Gordon got the better offer

For no reason? How about 6 freaking titles. The Bulls had 3 choices.

1. Tear up the original contract sometime during the 2nd string of titles, pay him what he deserved and make him happy.
Here's what he made with the Bulls:
1987-88 Chicago Bulls NBA $725,000
1988-89 Chicago Bulls NBA $575,000
1990-91 Chicago Bulls NBA $765,000
1991-92 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,770,000
1992-93 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,425,000
1993-94 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,075,000
1994-95 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,225,000
1995-96 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,925,000
1996-97 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,250,000
1997-98 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,775,000
2. Let him walk for nothing
3. Do a sign and trade and get something in return.

They settled for #3. Stop acting like the Bulls did Pippen a major favor by having another team pay him 30 million. He helped make the Bulls earn 10 x that amount through his play.

"Don't give me the crap about Deng getting more because he didn't. 30 percent defered in his contract so it was really 6/53 million. Gordon got the better offer"
#1. KC proved Gordon never got an offer.
#2. Honestly, I've read a lot of dumb things on this Forum, but: "Don't give me the crap about Deng getting more because he didn't. 30 percent defered in his contract so it was really 6/53 million. Gordon got the better offer"
This is definitely in the top 5. You do realize that regardless if it's deferred or not, he'll still get the money. There isn't a person on this planet besides you who could possibly argue that the contract the Bulls pulled from BG of 6 years at 54 million was better than what Deng got.

 

[TheStig]

Fred, name one nba contract that got ripped up and written for more? Its not the NFL. And what are you spouting off about Pippen made them 10x more. Thats why JR is the owner and they are employees. Look at the guys working at best buy selling plasmas for $8hr, don't you think they make the company at least 10x. Its business, its risk and without that comes profit if done right. Look at Rose, he makes roughly $5mill this year so I'm guessing he has made the Bulls a lot more than that.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

name one nba contract that got ripped up and written for more?

Shawn Kemp's did after he got traded to the Cavs (it's why the trade was made, under cap rules the Sonics couldn't adjust his contract as they were over the cap). I don't think there are any other cases of it happening though.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

name one nba contract that got ripped up and written for more?

Shawn Kemp's did after he got traded to the Cavs (it's why the trade was made, under cap rules the Sonics couldn't adjust his contract as they were over the cap). I don't think there are any other cases of it happening though.

I searched and it looks like they just gave him a huge extension. Not that they ripped up a deal.