We need to clear some things up on here

gpphat

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I stand by that statement. I also stated that individuals made plays and others sucked. Still don't see where it is a contradiction to anything i said after it. The record for McClown was 3 and 2 as a bear. his individual efforts count, I never stated that they didn't, as a team his record while on the team was 3-2. he contributed to win three as well didn't do enough to win two more. Not sure how this is different than Cutler. The team was under .500 5- 10, he sucked and the team as a whole sucked. Many, many reasons outside Cutler or McClown.

That quote I was referencing was in response to me saying that people attribute wins to Cutler where you responded with that quote saying I was the only one saying that (which I proved you were an idiot back then) and insinuated that it is a team game and its team wins not individual wins. Now you are insinuating that the teams record during McCowns tenure as starter was directly correlated to him as the starter. I know you are mentally incapable of doing this, but make up your mind...if you are going to directly relate the teams record to McCown then we have to attribute 10 losses to Cutler this past year and 6 losses to Cutler last year which would make him 5-6 last year which by my extensive calculations is a worse record than McCown.
 

HeHateMe

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That quote I was referencing was in response to me saying that people attribute wins to Cutler where you responded with that quote saying I was the only one saying that (which I proved you were an idiot back then) and insinuated that it is a team game and its team wins not individual wins. Now you are insinuating that the teams record during McCowns tenure as starter was directly correlated to him as the starter. I know you are mentally incapable of doing this, but make up your mind...if you are going to directly relate the teams record to McCown then we have to attribute 10 losses to Cutler this past year and 6 losses to Cutler last year which would make him 5-6 last year which by my extensive calculations is a worse record than McCown.

I told him it was time for his nap. Did he listen? Well, did he?
 

jc456

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Let's look at this chronologically,

Glad to know back to back interceptions had nothing to do with Cutler's one and only "comeback" last year...just like you and other like to say a bunch of us only credit Cutler for losses and credit teams for wins. The rest of you seem to only want to credit Cutler for the wins and overlook the losses

again, nope. No one has ever stated that. Only you.

The team lost as a team and the team won as a team. individuals made plays to contribute to the wins and individuals sucked to contribute to the losses.

That quote I was referencing was in response to me saying that people attribute wins to Cutler where you responded with that quote saying I was the only one saying that (which I proved you were an idiot back then) and insinuated that it is a team game and its team wins not individual wins. Now you are insinuating that the teams record during McCowns tenure as starter was directly correlated to him as the starter. I know you are mentally incapable of doing this, but make up your mind...if you are going to directly relate the teams record to McCown then we have to attribute 10 losses to Cutler this past year and 6 losses to Cutler last year which would make him 5-6 last year which by my extensive calculations is a worse record than McCown.

Ok I highlighted the progression of the discussion, not sure where I gave credit to Cutler for anything. I gave McClown's record as a starter. It's when he played. I never stated anything other than he actually didn't excel, the record for the Bears should have been 5-0 if he had. And, I covered myself by stating there were individual contributions in that quoted statement.
 

gpphat

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Let's look at this chronologically,







Ok I highlighted the progression of the discussion, not sure where I gave credit to Cutler for anything. I gave McClown's record as a starter. It's when he played. I never stated anything other than he actually didn't excel, the record for the Bears should have been 5-0 if he had. And, I covered myself by stating there were individual contributions in that quoted statement.

Epic_Facepalm_5452.png


Using your flawed logic Cutlers record 5-6...McCowns record 3-2...seems like McCown excelled a little more than Cutler
 

didshereallysaythat

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Technically, Cutler shouldn't get credit for a loss in the Washington game when he only played a little over 1 quarter. I wouldn't give McCown the loss either though.
 

gpphat

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Technically, Cutler shouldn't get credit for a loss in the Washington game when he only played a little over 1 quarter. I wouldn't give McCown the loss either though.

I think it is stupid to tie a record to a QB, but I am using jc's assbackwards logic
 

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I think it is stupid to tie a record to a QB, but I am using jc's assbackwards logic

I have to admit...it is pretty funny to see him chasing his tail in this whole debate
 

gpphat

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What on earth are you talking about?

No one is questioning his stats were better in 2013. So what?

Cutler's stats were better than Romo's and Luck's in 2013, and???? (total QBR)

And just because this nimrod wanted to dislike me as if he had an actual point:

In 2013

Cutler - 238.3 yards/game, 1.58 TD:Int ratio
Romo - 255.2 yards/game, 3.10 TD:Int ratio
Luck - 238.9 yards/game, 2.56 TD:Int ratio
 

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And just because this nimrod wanted to dislike me as if he had an actual point:

In 2013

Cutler - 238.3 yards/game, 1.58 TD:Int ratio
Romo - 255.2 yards/game, 3.10 TD:Int ratio
Luck - 238.9 yards/game, 2.56 TD:Int ratio

But what were their "highly reliable" QBR stat?
 

Desperado34

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Are we seriously going back to the almost INT argument? Every QB has INT's dropped, so the same can be said for Cutler. As for playing inferior defenses, Cutler and McCown both played GB and Min. Here is a comparison of both players against common opponenets

GB:

Cutler - 15/24 226 yards 2 TD's 1 Int (but lets count that as 0 because it was on a last ditch effort at the end of the game)
McCown - 22/41 272 yards 2 TD's 0 Int

Min:

Cutler - 27/38 292 yards 3 TD's 2 Int
McCown - 23/36 355 yards 2 TD's 0 Int

Let's now compare similar defenses and see how each stack up.

Pitts ranked 14th in points against and 13th in yards against, StL ranked 13th in points against and 15th in yards against

Cutler against Pitt - 20/30 159 yards 1 TD 0 Int
McCown against StL - 36/47 352 yards 2 TD's 1 Int

NYG ranked 18th in points against and 8th in yards against, Baltimore ranked 12th in points against and 12th in yards against

Cutler - 24/36 262yards 2 TD's 0 Int's
McCown - 19/31 216 yards 1 TD

Phi ranked 17th in points against and 29th in yards against, Dal ranked 26th in points against and last in yards against (Philly was as comparable as I could get for Dallas)

Cutler vs Phi - 20/35 222 yards 1 TD 1 Int
McCown vs Dal - 27/36 348 yards 4 TD's 0 Int

Point being even when Cutler played the exact same defenses and/or comparable defenses he still got out played by McCown with maybe the exception of the Giants/Baltimore game.

You have a lot of time on your hands.
 

pseudonym

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Broc said:
Because it proves that the problem wasn't Trestman or his system.

A career journeyman scrub who was out of football coaching kids walked in off the street and resurrected his career by simply running Trestman's offense the way it's supposed to be run (i.e - simply making quick reads and throwing to the open man).

All we heard from Cutler, McCown, and Palmer that offseason was how amazing Trestman's system was, how QB friendly it was, and how he was giving them all the answers to whatever defenses threw at them.

McCown's play proved that point perfectly. He didn't have the natural arm talent Cutler has yet was able to outplay him by simply running the offense the way it was coached and doing the basic things correctly like reading the defense and throwing to the open guy.

Cutler was in full buy-in mode in 2013 playing for a new contract and actually appeared to be trying to run the system (albiet not as well as McCown did but still decently enough minus the injuries to fool Emery into giving him a huge contract).

And sure enough, after getting his big contract he reverted right back into old Jay. Happy feet in the pocket throwing off his back foot like he's MJ shooting a fade away jumper resulting in a terrible accuracy regression, locking on to receivers and telegraphing his throws, not trusting his reads and holding onto the ball instead of simply throwing it to the open man, etc, etc.. but instead of blaming the QB for this regression we have morons on here content to pin it all on Trestman and playcalling.

Like Cutler's terrible decision making and downfield accuracy wasting play after play had nothing to do with the gameplans becoming more and more scaled back and vanilla or something. It's fucking ridiculous. Do you honestly think Trestman wanted to run an offense of screen passes and check downs to Forte?!? Or maybe the games were called that way because that's the only way the QB could move the ball down the field without turning it over...

I can't disagree with this, Broc. What's so frustrating to me, is that Cutler CAN play above average, even have flashes of greatness, some of his 4th quarter wins were pretty amazing, but he shoots himself in the foot so often, loses games with REDZONE INTS and other stupid mistakes (see Broc's long list above) that it negates any greatness. I think he's above average, but with his shortcomings, he ends up being a serious liability, and that's why he'll probably be gone soon. This is his last shot. McCown DID know how to play within the system, that's why he did well. Cutler is too much of a gunslinger. Now, I don't put ALL OF THAT on him, our DEF was bad, he was playing from behind quite often, HAD to take some shots, but he also dug himself quite a few holes.

Should be interesting to see what the future holds. I like Jay, I think he's funny, talented, but so unreliable. I expect we'll draft his replacement in the 1st/2nd round next year. He'll be here this year, and MAYBE one more year.
 

gpphat

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gpphat

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