We Should Have Tanked

Hoodey

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I'm not an all wordly Paxson believer. I also don't think he's the worst GM ever. He's a good GM with a fault.

I'm just wondering why you think Carmelo wouldn't make the Bulls instant contenders.

Ready?

Take any FG metric you want... Fg%, eFG%, TS%... Since magic and bird entered the league.. 1979-80, you show me all the title teams where the two leading score are as inefficient as Rose AND melo?
 

The Hawk

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If the bulls sign melo then they'd have to get rid of Butler and Gibson. And probably wouldn't have enough cap space to bring over Mirotic outside of the MLE.


Not from what I read. Butler doesn't make much for starters. They should get rid of Hinrich, and amnesty Boozer. They may also have to get rid of Augustin if necessary and possibly Dunleavy. Butler will stay. They will get something back for Dunleavy.

I am just basing this on what I have read about what Mirotic will cost (5M-6M) which is basically what they increased the cap by. Then it will depend on what Melo will settle for. Right now, I can see them freeing up around 17M-18M for him without having to move Gibson.
 

The Hawk

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Ready?

Take any FG metric you want... Fg%, eFG%, TS%... Since magic and bird entered the league.. 1979-80, you show me all the title teams where the two leading score are as inefficient as Rose AND melo?


I'm not a huge fan of Paxson but I think that Forman is a pro, especially regarding salary cap stuff which is important in this day and age. There is another factor and that is Reinsdorf. I think he wants a few more championships before his days are done, especially in light of his son dying. He can't take his money with him so I think that Melo has a good chance of being in Chi town as well as Mirotic next year.
 

Hoodey

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I'm not a huge fan of Paxson but I think that Forman is a pro, especially regarding salary cap stuff which is important in this day and age. There is another factor and that is Reinsdorf. I think he wants a few more championships before his days are done, especially in light of his son dying. He can't take his money with him so I think that Melo has a good chance of being in Chi town as well as Mirotic next year.


How does that address my point? Your best answer is "Forman is a pro"??
 

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You're one of my favorite posters on this site, but damn Man, WTF? Tanking is never the solution. The pavlov dogs will argue about the CBA is set that way, but I say the Great teams don't Tank, and still have great off seasons!

Take a look at the sweetness of your very own signature, and tell me if Walter would Tank? Think about that for a moment!
You're one of favorites also, man. It's the very reason that I complimented the optimism of the anti-tank posters.
 

Raskolnikov

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We need Dunleavy type players off the bench. Keep him or bring back Korver but I think Dunleavy has more of an all around game. Anybody that can play hard and well in short minutes like Augustine and Dunleavy have great potential to form our new bench mob.

Brewer could even be back. Rose, Butler, Mirotic, Gibson, Noah has dominating potential and what we give up in size with Gibson we regain with Miro. We would have bigs that can run the floor very very well with the high activity of Noah and Miro. Considering Rose and Butler are fast up the court you really can't make a mistake with our starting lineup cuz they can run.

Dunleavy, Augustine, Snell, two first rounders, Greg Smith, Brewer would be really a fantastic team without worrying about Love, Melo, or other roster exploding moves.

Rose is one of about 5-10 players that have championship ceilings. You need one of them to win one. You just do, and like it or not he is our chance.

We can be good without him, we can compete our hearts out, but we have 0% chance at a championship. The team is built around his scoring, and without it they will never have that dimension and play defense at the same time. Its been either/or for Thibs in these playoffs, whatever move he makes we are doomed.

If we can afford Boozer and Miro I think it keeps our front court depth in tact while we wait for Miro and the rookies to grow as NBA players, but clearly we have to amnesty him. Maybe he can come back to us for cheap in 2 years or something if he wants to retire here.
 

JChapmani65

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Respect from the man we're going to try to chase this summer: Carmelo Anthony. He bemoaned the fact that his team gave up on its coach and team. He has to be watching this team fight night in and night out and want to play with guys like that. That is what we gained
 

Axl Rose

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Respect from the man we're going to try to chase this summer: Carmelo Anthony. He bemoaned the fact that his team gave up on its coach and team. He has to be watching this team fight night in and night out and want to play with guys like that. That is what we gained

and if melo doesn't sign then what?
 

Axl Rose

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We get to see this year's playoffs year after year!

dance165.gif
 

The Hawk

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How does that address my point? Your best answer is "Forman is a pro"??


I was addressing both your point(s) and "cerebrals". He said to sign Melo we'd have to get rid of both Butler and Gibson and not be able to sign Mirotic. You said that Melo and Rose being added would not have the Bulls contend. I dispute both of you and your assertions.

Forman is a pro and has the Bulls in decent salary cap position. He also has arranged a bumper crop of draft picks and Mirotic. Do you deny those points? Do you see another team in a better position from this point on? If so, who?

Did Reinsdorf not say that he would exceed the cap if the Bulls are a title contender? Did he lie? Obviously he didn't see them as legit contenders after losing Rose and they weren't. Tell me that having Rose and Melo join next year's team is less of a title contender than the Heat, the Pacers, the Rockets, the Thunder. IF you think so, tell me why. Exactly how do they not mesh into a winner with Rose, Melo, Noah, Butler, and Gibson. Can they not score? Can they not rebound? can they not defend? Can Thibs not coach?

So go ahead, my friend, show me where I am wrong. Tell me that a former MVP and a scoring leader wouldn't seriously improve this team.
 

The Hawk

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So many koolaid drinkers on this board... pathetic.


I, for one, do not drink kool-aid. I drink beer:) So please, you too, tell me how messed up this team will be next year? What, pray tell will happen? Its your move.
 

The Hawk

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and if melo doesn't sign then what?


I think, then, that they should sign Stephenson, bring in Mirotic, Keep Dunleavy and Augustin. Amnesty Boozer. Cut Hinrich and bring in at least two of the three rookies perhaps trading one of them for a future pick. In the draft they will need to pick for sure a shooting guard and a Center.
 

Cerebral

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Not from what I read. Butler doesn't make much for starters. They should get rid of Hinrich, and amnesty Boozer. They may also have to get rid of Augustin if necessary and possibly Dunleavy. Butler will stay. They will get something back for Dunleavy.

I am just basing this on what I have read about what Mirotic will cost (5M-6M) which is basically what they increased the cap by. Then it will depend on what Melo will settle for. Right now, I can see them freeing up around 17M-18M for him without having to move Gibson.


About a month or so ago Waddle and Silvy had a cap expert come on the show and he broke it down. He pretty much said their is no way that the bulls could keep Gibson and get Melo and that the bulls would probably have to get rid of Butlers contract aswell. That was before the supposed salary increase though, but I would think they would still need to get rid of Gibsons contract.
 

Cerebral

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If the Bulls amnesty Carlos Boozer, the starting point for the cap room they could offer Anthony, according to league salary sheets, is $13.8 million. To even get there, they would have to renounce free agent Kirk Hinrich (and lose his Bird rights) and trade their first-round pick and the pick they are getting from Charlotte (which together would amount to another $2.7 million on Chicago's books).

Further, if the Bulls are under the cap, they'd only have their $2.7 million room exception to bring 2011 pick Nikola Mirotic over from Spain. League sources say Mirotic would be looking for a deal in the $3 million-$4 million range. (He's no longer governed by the rookie scale, and the Bulls have planned for needing the bulk of their non-taxpayer mid-level exception of $5.3 million on him, sources say.)

But let's play along, shall we? Let's say the Bulls renounced Hinrich ($5.2 million cap hold gone), kept their picks, and traded Taj Gibson ($8 million) and Mike Dunleavy ($3.3 million) while bringing back no salary in the process. They would be able to start Anthony at about $20 million in the first year of a four-year, $85.4 million deal -- give or take, depending on how much they need to sign Mirotic.

That would leave the Bulls with a lineup of Anthony, Rose coming off a second straight season lost to injury, Jimmy Butler, Noah and a giant hole at the other forward spot. Their bench would be Tony Snell, Mirotic and their two first-round picks. When all was said and done, they'd be able to offer minimum deals to other free agents and they'd have their room exception of $2.7 million available.

But before we get too far ahead of ourselves, let's back up to where Anthony's four-year deal with Chicago would start: $20 million. That's $1.7 million less than Anthony is making this season and $3.3 million less than he'd make in the first season of a five-year, $130.9 million deal he could get from the Knicks. The compounding effect of Anthony's initial sacrifice, plus forgoing the fifth year the Knicks could offer at $30.3 million, would mean that Anthony would be leaving $45 million on the table to sign with the Bulls.

Does anybody really think that's going to happen? I can safely say that Anthony's agent, Leon Rose, hopes that it doesn't. The Bulls apparently don't think it will, either, since I'm told they haven't gotten as far as we have here in crunching these numbers. Even if the Bulls could somehow clear enough room to offer Anthony the true max for four years, that's never been how they've operated -- not for a soon-to-be 30-year-old free agent, anyway.

This is assuming of course that Melo wants close to or a max deal to come to the Bulls.



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer...ess-is-melo-willing-to-take-to-leave-new-york
 

The Hawk

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About a month or so ago Waddle and Silvy had a cap expert come on the show and he broke it down. He pretty much said their is no way that the bulls could keep Gibson and get Melo and that the bulls would probably have to get rid of Butlers contract aswell. That was before the supposed salary increase though, but I would think they would still need to get rid of Gibsons contract.


Okay but I've read other guys who have said differently. A lot depends on the assumptions going in as well as how much money Melo will demand as well as how much Reiny would go above the cap.
 

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