What happens if don't get one of the big 3?

[postdiction]

I am not trying to be a pessimist but say this happens:

LBJ resigns with Cleveland.
Wade resigns with Miami
Bosh signs with Miami to be with Wade.

Bulls management panics because they have been promising 2010 as the reason for letting some of our most talented players walk for nothing. They know they need to get someone to appease the fans.

In haste they over pay and give a max contract to either Amarie or Joe Johnson.


To me this is the worst situation possible because we will get a player who is good but not great. We will be better but not good enough to win a championship and we will be stuck with a bad contract for one of these guys.

In this case I would rather not sign one of those 2 and with for the new CBA where max contracts would be significantly cheaper.

What do you guys think we should do if we miss on all of the big 3 FAs?

thanks,

postdiction

 

[TheStig]

I don't think that they panic or sign someone. About 1/3-1/2 of teams will be losing money and will be willing to trade guys to dump salary. I really think someone like David West is a prime candidate to get moved. Short deal, above average production. Amare would strike me as a moveable piece if he doesn't opt out either. Phoenix seems to be tired of the drama and he fits a need. I think we go with a patch job till a star becomes available. Sort of like we have in the past. My point being, there will be plenty of opportunities to improve, I wouldn't rush to offer JJ the max unless Bosh is coming with him.

 

[Kush77]

I don't think the Bulls will get any of the Big 3.

I have no problems with them getting Stoudemire. Stoudemire would still address a weakness - an inside presence.

I don't know why people are so down on Stodemire. He's having a solid year. He scores over 20 a game and shoots a very high percentage. Sure he only get 8 boards a game, but we have Noah to help out there. We need a guy who can command a double team in the post. It's been the same story for 3 years now.

I'll take Stoudemire over Joe Johnson. Stoudemire will be 28 when next season starts. He's just entering his prime. He's averaging 24 and 12 in Feb. so far.

If the Bulls can trade for him now they should. But I don't know if Phx will move him or not.

I know people are worried about hi injuries but his recent injuries have been eye injuries, correct? It's not like a knee or something. He's played in every game this season.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I really don't see what's so bad about getting Amare. He helps us out a lot on the inside. There's nothing wrong with JJ either...just that he's getting a bit old towards the end of his deal. If we got both, that's a significant improvement from where we are now, though I'm not sure how likely or possible that is. Is it possible to front load their contracts like we did with Hinrich or does that make it not a max deal?

 

[houheffna]

i have watched Amare from time to time this year...he plays no, I repeat NO defense!!! He makes Tyrus look like Maurice Lucas defensively...he doesn't even try...forget about it...plus he wants 20mil a year....hell with that!!!

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

i have watched Amare from time to time this year...he plays no, I repeat NO defense!!! He makes Tyrus look like Maurice Lucas defensively...he doesn't even try...forget about it...plus he wants 20mil a year....hell with that!!!

I don't think hes that bad but it will be interesting who coughs up the money for him. I can see Miami do it if they strike out on a second star or NY desperate to get someone. Other than that, I don't see anyone paying him the max.

 

[houheffna]

I don't think hes that bad but it will be interesting who coughs up the money for him. I can see Miami do it if they strike out on a second star or NY desperate to get someone. Other than that, I don't see anyone paying him the max.

I watch him...he is that bad!

 

[postdiction]

Kush77 wrote:

I don't know why people are so down on Stodemire. He's having a solid year. He scores over 20 a game and shoots a very high percentage. Sure he only get 8 boards a game, but we have Noah to help out there. We need a guy who can command a double team in the post. It's been the same story for 3 years now.

Amare is a good player however one of ESPN's NBA guys (I can't remember which reporter) was saying you don't give a max contract to a one way player. Amare plays little to no D.

furthermore he said Amare is really good but only a certain type of system and that playing with Nash has inflated Amare's stats. He gave an example of how Shawn Marion's play significantly dropped after leaving the Suns.

I am not saying he is 100% right but those are some points to consider. Do you think Rose + Amare + Noah + Deng could beat cavs or lakers?

 

[houheffna]

Here is something for everyone to consider...Charles Barkley says that you don't pay a max contract for a player who will not be the best player on your team coming in...

With Stoudemire, that would definitely be the case...I believe that Rose is/will be better and getting him for anything close to the max would be bad business...

 

[Shakes]

Apart from the fact Amare has a scary injury history and that he's the main big on the second worst defense in the league, I have no problems with him.

That said, our options don't look great. David Lee being named to the all-star team hurts. Before that I thought it might be possible to get him for 10 million or so a year, now I think he'll want more. Signing Lee for 10 million would have left us with maybe 8 million to find a shooting guard, whether as a free agent or using the cap space to facilitate a trade. I like Rose/8 million guy/Deng/Lee/Noah with Kirk & GIbson on the bench better than Rose/Kirk/Deng/Amare/Noah with only GIbson on the bench.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes, your math is a bit off. If we sign a guy for 5/50 or 6/50 his starting salary will be between 7.9 and 8.5 depending on years and if its a s&t. So we would definitely have more space to sign a sg.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I don't think hes that bad but it will be interesting who coughs up the money for him. I can see Miami do it if they strike out on a second star or NY desperate to get someone. Other than that, I don't see anyone paying him the max.

I watch him...he is that bad!

I haven't watched him much this year but he is capable of playing good D. He does play on a terrible defensive team, I think his defense would improve playing in our system next to other good defenders. He did do well a few years ago against duncan in the playoffs. I think his "bad" defense is just as overblown as when people say it about david lee.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Here is something for everyone to consider...Charles Barkley says that you don't pay a max contract for a player who will not be the best player on your team coming in...

With Stoudemire, that would definitely be the case...I believe that Rose is/will be better and getting him for anything close to the max would be bad business...

Charles Barkley isn't the foremost expert on the salary cap. Championship teams have usaully two max deals. Look at the heat a couple of years ago, Shaq made more than Wade and last year Shard made more than Howard. You can have a successful team like that. How else do you get star fas if you aren't willing to overpay a bit? Not saying Stat is worth the max but the idea that your best player gets the biggest salary is a bit overblown.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes, your math is a bit off. If we sign a guy for 5/50 or 6/50 his starting salary will be between 7.9 and 8.5 depending on years and if its a s&t. So we would definitely have more space to sign a sg.

True, we could actually sign a SG on around 10 million a year too if we gave them both increasing contracts. I really think being a good team and hoping for a lucky draft pick or lopsided trade to push us over the top is our best chance if we don't get the top guys.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes, your math is a bit off. If we sign a guy for 5/50 or 6/50 his starting salary will be between 7.9 and 8.5 depending on years and if its a s&t. So we would definitely have more space to sign a sg.

True, we could actually sign a SG on around 10 million a year too if we gave them both increasing contracts. I really think being a good team and hoping for a lucky draft pick or lopsided trade to push us over the top is our best chance if we don't get the top guys.

If we decided to go that route, I'd love to get Rudy *** to be that SG. Rose/***/Deng/Lee/Noah will be the best rebounding team in the league. *** and Lee will also give us some outside shooting and someone to run the pick and roll with Rose. I think Lee's numbers will drop off a bit but I think he is still good for 15/10 and his D will imporve. We also won't be undersized anywhere. The goal then would be turning Kirk's expiring and someone into a star. I think that group is better than what ATL has.

 

[Shakes]

I like the idea of getting ***, but I worry about the cost. I suspect Lee & *** will be pricey enough we'd need to trade Kirk now to make it happen cap space wise. Which wouldn't be a problem, but how do we afford a bench down the line when Noah and Rose get extensions, and every starter is on 10+ million a year? We'd better pray it's enough of a winner for JR to be good to his word.

 

[houheffna]

Charles Barkley isn't the foremost expert on the salary cap. Championship teams have usaully two max deals. Look at the heat a couple of years ago, Shaq made more than Wade and last year Shard made more than Howard. You can have a successful team like that. How else do you get star fas if you aren't willing to overpay a bit? Not saying Stat is worth the max but the idea that your best player gets the biggest salary is a bit overblown.

You don't have to be a cap expert...that is just common sense. Stoudemire is damaged goods and he has sustained some very serious injuries in his career. And the way he plays, his inconsistency, is not worth anywhere near a max contract.

Furthermore, you are saying that Rose is Wade in this scenario. I don't think so...and I don't see that at this time. Amare is not going to command double teams in the post and Rose is not yet on par with Wade...if he will ever be.

I haven't watched him much this year but he is capable of playing good D. He does play on a terrible defensive team, I think his defense would improve playing in our system next to other good defenders. He did do well a few years ago against duncan in the playoffs. I think his "bad" defense is just as overblown as when people say it about david lee.

Raja Bell played on the same awful defensive teams and was a very good defensive player, its not just about capability, its about effort. As far as his defense improving because he changed teams...that good Chicago defense is sure helping Tyrus and his defensive deficiencies...I don't think so...

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

You don't have to be a cap expert...that is just common sense. Stoudemire is damaged goods and he has sustained some very serious injuries in his career. And the way he plays, his inconsistency, is not worth anywhere near a max contract.

Furthermore, you are saying that Rose is Wade in this scenario. I don't think so...and I don't see that at this time. Amare is not going to command double teams in the post and Rose is not yet on par with Wade...if he will ever be.

Reading is fundamental. Did I say I wanted Stat at the max anywhere? No, I just listed examples to contradict statements that your best player isn't necessarily the highest paid. Sometimes you need to overpay a bit to get or keep pieces. I listed examples where it clearly worked, Chuck is just wrong about that. You don't always get a clear hierarchy but it can be done successfully.

I don't know where you think I compared Rose/Amare to Shaq/Wade because I didn't. But the fact remains that if we don't get one of the big three, then we will have that exact situation. JJ for example will make a significant amount more than rose even if rose gets a max deal. But in a year or two, Rose will be better. Its just inevitable with older players on max deals. All of the max fas will have a higher max and make more than rose.

Raja Bell played on the same awful defensive teams and was a very good defensive player, its not just about capability, its about effort. As far as his defense improving because he changed teams...that good Chicago defense is sure helping Tyrus and his defensive deficiencies...I don't think so...

Its different, Raja's postion isn't as reliant on others as Amare. Outside of Bell, the suns suck defensively and consistently allow players to break down the defense getting into the paint and forcing amare into more of a help mode more than he should be. In our defense, you are much more able to hide a weaker defender than if you have 4/5 bad defenders.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I like the idea of getting ***, but I worry about the cost. I suspect Lee & *** will be pricey enough we'd need to trade Kirk now to make it happen cap space wise. Which wouldn't be a problem, but how do we afford a bench down the line when Noah and Rose get extensions, and every starter is on 10+ million a year? We'd better pray it's enough of a winner for JR to be good to his word.

Thats the problem that Phoenix had a few years ago. Its just the direction you have to go if you want a winning team. The hope would be to be able to get quality bench guys for the lle and late round draft picks. The bench isn't as important when you have 5 starts capable of playing 35-40mpg. I'd be more worried about when the time comes to sign off on a major trade where we add salary to get a star, would JR be willing to do that?

 

[clonetrooper264]

houheffna wrote:

I haven't watched him much this year but he is capable of playing good D. He does play on a terrible defensive team, I think his defense would improve playing in our system next to other good defenders. He did do well a few years ago against duncan in the playoffs. I think his "bad" defense is just as overblown as when people say it about david lee.

Raja Bell played on the same awful defensive teams and was a very good defensive player, its not just about capability, its about effort. As far as his defense improving because he changed teams...that good Chicago defense is sure helping Tyrus and his defensive deficiencies...I don't think so...

Raja Bell is also a player known for his defense. That's what he does for a living. Thus it would make sense that he would play good defense even if he was on a crappy defensive team. That's how I see it anyway.