What happens if don't get one of the big 3?

[houheffna]

Reading is fundamental. Did I say I wanted Stat at the max anywhere?

I assume that you bring up the fundamentals of reading, that you are fairly good at it. So break out the good reading glasses, with the thick lenses...and read my initial statement again...I was talking about max contracts and so was Charles Barkley...obviously he will get paid more than Rose, Rose is on his rookie contract...I said nothing about getting paid more, I was speaking of a max deal.

But if you give him the max, Rose will not make more than Amare if Rose gets a max contract and Barkley made the point that Amare is not worth that investment...as Shaq and Lewis may or may not have been...Both Howard and Wade were still on their rookie contracts when those moves were made.

And by the way, the Rashard Lewis contract proves my point!

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Reading is fundamental. Did I say I wanted Stat at the max anywhere?

I assume that you bring up the fundamentals of reading, that you are fairly good at it. So break out the good reading glasses, with the thick lenses...and read my initial statement again...I was talking about max contracts and so was Charles Barkley...obviously he will get paid more than Rose, Rose is on his rookie contract...I said nothing about getting paid more, I was speaking of a max deal.

But if you give him the max, Rose will not make more than Amare if Rose gets a max contract and Barkley made the point that Amare is not worth that investment...as Shaq and Lewis may or may not have been...Both Howard and Wade were still on their rookie contracts when those moves were made.

And by the way, the Rashard Lewis contract proves my point!

Wow you missed everything. Just about as arrogant as Chuck.

 

[houheffna]

Wow you missed everything. Just about as arrogant as Chuck.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The wise make it a habit: When you have nothing to say...its best to say nothing...

Just trying to raise your basketball IQ a notch or two is all...nothing more...

 

[Kush77]

I'll take Stoudemire here in a heartbeat. I don't care if his defense is suspect.

I've said this before in a post long ago, you're not going to have 5 guys that do everything to perfection. Some guys are gonna be weak on D. Some guys are gonna be weak on the offensive side.

Noah isn't the greatest offensive player. So when he's up for his deal do we let him walk? Because guess what, he's gonna comand big money. Not max, but enough. Bucause big men command big money. If a bum like Andris Biendris can get almost 11 mil a season, what do you think Noah is gonna get?

My point is big guys get paid. Stoudemire is worth it for the Bulls because his fills a need they have been failing to address for 3 years. I'm sick of watching a jump shooting team. Stoudemire would give them a legit inside threat.

Rose drives, commands a double team and he can drop it off to Amare instead of throwing it out for someone to take an 18 footer.

I can live with the lack of D. So be it.

Someone said does a team of Rose, Amare, Deng and Noah beat the Lakers or the Cavs. No. But what's the alternative. Wait until Kobe and LeBron retires?

I'm personally sick of watching .500 basketball.

But if the Cavs get Amare it won't matter. Cavs will win the East. the might win it any way because the C's are looking their age.

We'll wee.

 

[TheStig]

I don't know Kush, A few years ago I would have agreed but it looks like Amare has taken a step back. All of his numbers have dropped in the last couple of years. I just don't think he is worth a max deal. 6 years and 120 million is awful lot to tie up in him.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

I like the idea of getting ***, but I worry about the cost. I suspect Lee & *** will be pricey enough we'd need to trade Kirk now to make it happen cap space wise. Which wouldn't be a problem, but how do we afford a bench down the line when Noah and Rose get extensions, and every starter is on 10+ million a year? We'd better pray it's enough of a winner for JR to be good to his word.

Thats the problem that Phoenix had a few years ago. Its just the direction you have to go if you want a winning team. The hope would be to be able to get quality bench guys for the lle and late round draft picks. The bench isn't as important when you have 5 starts capable of playing 35-40mpg. I'd be more worried about when the time comes to sign off on a major trade where we add salary to get a star, would JR be willing to do that?

And the Suns paid for it, when Joe Johnson went down they got screwed, when they got the suspensions they got screwed. If they had one more player maybe they have two championships now.

Not saying you can plan for injuries, but pretty much every team is going to have them, and having no depth really hurts. I'd hope we could at least pay the MLE to get bench guys.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

I like the idea of getting ***, but I worry about the cost. I suspect Lee & *** will be pricey enough we'd need to trade Kirk now to make it happen cap space wise. Which wouldn't be a problem, but how do we afford a bench down the line when Noah and Rose get extensions, and every starter is on 10+ million a year? We'd better pray it's enough of a winner for JR to be good to his word.

Thats the problem that Phoenix had a few years ago. Its just the direction you have to go if you want a winning team. The hope would be to be able to get quality bench guys for the lle and late round draft picks. The bench isn't as important when you have 5 starts capable of playing 35-40mpg. I'd be more worried about when the time comes to sign off on a major trade where we add salary to get a star, would JR be willing to do that?

And the Suns paid for it, when Joe Johnson went down they got screwed, when they got the suspensions they got screwed. If they had one more player maybe they have two championships now.

Not saying you can plan for injuries, but pretty much every team is going to have them, and having no depth really hurts. I'd hope we could at least pay the MLE to get bench guys.

My point was that they didn't have a full run. JJ left after that. They also traded away draft picks, they could have gotten that bench guy/extra player on a value deal if they just kept the #7 pick and a couple others.

 

[houheffna]

I don't know Kush, A few years ago I would have agreed but it looks like Amare has taken a step back. All of his numbers have dropped in the last couple of years. I just don't think he is worth a max deal. 6 years and 120 million is awful lot to tie up in him.

Wow! Wasn't that my point? Your arrogance card is in the mail...welcome aboard....

the hell was that...

Anyway...

I'll take Stoudemire here in a heartbeat. I don't care if his defense is suspect.

I've said this before in a post long ago, you're not going to have 5 guys that do everything to perfection. Some guys are gonna be weak on D. Some guys are gonna be weak on the offensive side.

Noah isn't the greatest offensive player. So when he's up for his deal do we let him walk? Because guess what, he's gonna comand big money. Not max, but enough. Bucause big men command big money. If a bum like Andris Biendris can get almost 11 mil a season, what do you think Noah is gonna get?

My point is big guys get paid. Stoudemire is worth it for the Bulls because his fills a need they have been failing to address for 3 years. I'm sick of watching a jump shooting team. Stoudemire would give them a legit inside threat.

Rose drives, commands a double team and he can drop it off to Amare instead of throwing it out for someone to take an 18 footer.

I can live with the lack of D. So be it.

Someone said does a team of Rose, Amare, Deng and Noah beat the Lakers or the Cavs. No. But what's the alternative. Wait until Kobe and LeBron retires?

I'm personally sick of watching .500 basketball.

But if the Cavs get Amare it won't matter. Cavs will win the East. the might win it any way because the C's are looking their age.

We'll wee.

Not saying Amare is a bad player...the question really is "does he deserve a max deal" which is what he is looking for. To me, he is behind Bosh and Boozer. Before all of the injuries...in a heartbeat I would give him the max, but no way right now. That would be crazy...you can get Lee, who does a lot of the same stuff without the extra mileage for maybe 25% less which could mean 30 or 40 million over 5 or 6 years...

 

[Shakes]

Kush77 wrote:

I'm personally sick of watching .500 basketball.

And the alternative is to watch .500 basketball while Amare ties up max money and can't play? Because that's the downside risk if we sign him. It might be worth the risk if the upside was good enough, but as you say, he doesn't get us to championship level.

Didn't we just recently give a huge contract to a guy who only played one side of the court, was declining, and only played hard when he felt like it? I just worry Amare will be a repeat of the Ben Wallace signing if we do it.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

I'm personally sick of watching .500 basketball.

And the alternative is to watch .500 basketball while Amare ties up max money and can't play? Because that's the downside risk if we sign him. It might be worth the risk if the upside was good enough, but as you say, he doesn't get us to championship level.

Didn't we just recently give a huge contract to a guy who only played one side of the court, was declining, and only played hard when he felt like it? I just worry Amare will be a repeat of the Ben Wallace signing if we do it.

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

 

[Kush77]

I think what we disagree on (Stig, Hou, maybe Shakes - haven't read every post) is about Amare being worth a max deal. And I agree he's not a max player. But what's the option?

That's something I guess we'd have to wait until the offseason to see. Is there a team that will offer him the max? I guess New York would so then the Bulls would be in a biding war. So I would say yes, pay him the max.

What's the alternative? Especially if they don't get the Big 3 ( which I don't think they will). Get Joe Johnson? Fine, but you have the same issue's that have plagued this team the past 3 years.

Can the Bulls go into 2010-2011 without a scoring threat down low? I say no.

But Bulls' management seems willing to wait for this perfect storm of youth, cap flexibility and skill. Only if the world was so perfect.

And for Stig's post about Amare's numbers. they're pretty good this year. Not down too far if you look at mins. and shot attempts. He's shooting 55%. It's down from his career year from 07/08 but not too far.

 

[TheStig]

Kush77 wrote:

I think what we disagree on (Stig, Hou, maybe Shakes - haven't read every post) is about Amare being worth a max deal. And I agree he's not a max player. But what's the option?

That's something I guess we'd have to wait until the offseason to see. Is there a team that will offer him the max? I guess New York would so then the Bulls would be in a biding war. So I would say yes, pay him the max.

What's the alternative? Especially if they don't get the Big 3 ( which I don't think they will). Get Joe Johnson? Fine, but you have the same issue's that have plagued this team the past 3 years.

Can the Bulls go into 2010-2011 without a scoring threat down low? I say no.

But Bulls' management seems willing to wait for this perfect storm of youth, cap flexibility and skill. Only if the world was so perfect.

And for Stig's post about Amare's numbers. they're pretty good this year. Not down too far if you look at mins. and shot attempts. He's shooting 55%. It's down from his career year from 07/08 but not too far.

Kush, I agree partially. I just think you gotta go after Amare now. See if he makes you much better and let him walk if he doesn't. Lets face it, if he goes to Cleavland, two of top 6 fas are off the market. Someone better up the ante because the cavs better not get him for Big Z and JJ hickson. Hell why don't we throw Miller and some sort of combo of TT, JJ or Taj. Hell, I'd love to make Deng a principile in the deal.

Amare's numbers have dropped across the board. I don't know what your talking about but he has clearly dropped off from his two career years. Lower shooting percentages, less rebounds, less free throws, less blocks, his numbers are down about 20% across the board since his career years. Thats Amare was really agressive and dangerous, the current amare looks like he lost some of that passion and half a step. I'd rent him for the year and see where we are at but I would definetly put him at a notch below bosh.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

Well you're talking about grabbing him for 30 games, not signing him to a max deal, which is very different.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

Well you're talking about grabbing him for 30 games, not signing him to a max deal, which is very different.

I just don't want to see Bron get Amare. I think that will ruin 2010 for us. If that goes down, I see Bosh and Wade teaming up Miami, Atlanta maxing out JJ (which after improving this year, I can't see them not doing it) and us fighting NY over Boozer and Lee.

 

[Shakes]

Kush77 wrote:

What's the alternative?

Get a couple of above average players at SG and PF (the Rudy *** & David Lee approach discussed earlier), and hope that you can get lucky in the draft or in a trade. Or that everyone else just sucks one year and like the Pistons you win with your 5 good starters and no bench.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

Well you're talking about grabbing him for 30 games, not signing him to a max deal, which is very different.

I just don't want to see Bron get Amare. I think that will ruin 2010 for us. If that goes down, I see Bosh and Wade teaming up Miami, Atlanta maxing out JJ (which after improving this year, I can't see them not doing it) and us fighting NY over Boozer and Lee.

I'm not sure how to read the LeBron situation. With most guys you'd say getting a winning team would be a bad thing for our hopes, but I wonder if LeBron winning a championship would be just what's needed for him to not feel guilty about leaving for a big market team.

 

[Kush77]

TheStig wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

I think what we disagree on (Stig, Hou, maybe Shakes - haven't read every post) is about Amare being worth a max deal. And I agree he's not a max player. But what's the option?

That's something I guess we'd have to wait until the offseason to see. Is there a team that will offer him the max? I guess New York would so then the Bulls would be in a biding war. So I would say yes, pay him the max.

What's the alternative? Especially if they don't get the Big 3 ( which I don't think they will). Get Joe Johnson? Fine, but you have the same issue's that have plagued this team the past 3 years.

Can the Bulls go into 2010-2011 without a scoring threat down low? I say no.

But Bulls' management seems willing to wait for this perfect storm of youth, cap flexibility and skill. Only if the world was so perfect.

And for Stig's post about Amare's numbers. they're pretty good this year. Not down too far if you look at mins. and shot attempts. He's shooting 55%. It's down from his career year from 07/08 but not too far.

Kush, I agree partially. I just think you gotta go after Amare now. See if he makes you much better and let him walk if he doesn't. Lets face it, if he goes to Cleavland, two of top 6 fas are off the market. Someone better up the ante because the cavs better not get him for Big Z and JJ hickson. Hell why don't we throw Miller and some sort of combo of TT, JJ or Taj. Hell, I'd love to make Deng a principile in the deal.

Amare's numbers have dropped across the board. I don't know what your talking about but he has clearly dropped off from his two career years. Lower shooting percentages, less rebounds, less free throws, less blocks, his numbers are down about 20% across the board since his career years. Thats Amare was really agressive and dangerous, the current amare looks like he lost some of that passion and half a step. I'd rent him for the year and see where we are at but I would definetly put him at a notch below bosh.

the drop in his numbers aren't that bad. He's averaging 21 ppg this year. His high was 26 back in 05 but I tend to look at his good year post-microfracture surgery in 07/08, 25 ppg 9.1 rebs .590 FG and 2.1 blks, 15.3 FG attempts per game in 33.9 min.

This year he's 21.2 ppg, 8.6 rebs, 55% FG, 1 blk on 14.3 FG attempts per game in 34.8 min.

It's not that drastic of a drop. If he puts up an extra shot or 2 per game and gets his FT% back over 80% (which is great for a big man) then he's closer to the 25 ppg. His shooting % is down from that .590, but he's still .55% that very good for someone who doesn't dunk the ball 50 or 60% of the time like Howard or Shaq. Rebounding has pretty much been the same his whole career, never has broke 10 per game. But that's where Noah would come in and it wouldn't worry me too much.

The blocks are down, the FT % is down (but still very good for his position).

But you'd take him and so would I. The Bulls can't keep going the way they are. They gotta have some threat in the paint.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

Well you're talking about grabbing him for 30 games, not signing him to a max deal, which is very different.

I just don't want to see Bron get Amare. I think that will ruin 2010 for us. If that goes down, I see Bosh and Wade teaming up Miami, Atlanta maxing out JJ (which after improving this year, I can't see them not doing it) and us fighting NY over Boozer and Lee.

I'm not sure how to read the LeBron situation. With most guys you'd say getting a winning team would be a bad thing for our hopes, but I wonder if LeBron winning a championship would be just what's needed for him to not feel guilty about leaving for a big market team.

If he gets another star there, he isn't going anywhere. Mo Williams, West, Stat and Vareajo is a great cast for him long term. They got defense, shooting, scorers. He isn't carrying the whole load offensively, everyone slides down a slot and is made for their role. 2010 would be dead. With a bunch of guys resigning, we are left to overpay for *** and Lee. Both of their teams aren't just going to let them walk without a fight.

 

[Kush77]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Amare is no real risk. He is being sold for a bag of peanuts now and doesn't have to be resigned. I imagine a package of Brad Miller, JJ or Taj or TT can compete with Big Z and JJ hickson. Maybe we throw in a pick. This all depends on our willingness to pay the tax, I don't think you could argue we would get in at least the second round adding amare.

Well you're talking about grabbing him for 30 games, not signing him to a max deal, which is very different.

I just don't want to see Bron get Amare. I think that will ruin 2010 for us. If that goes down, I see Bosh and Wade teaming up Miami, Atlanta maxing out JJ (which after improving this year, I can't see them not doing it) and us fighting NY over Boozer and Lee.

I'm not sure how to read the LeBron situation. With most guys you'd say getting a winning team would be a bad thing for our hopes, but I wonder if LeBron winning a championship would be just what's needed for him to not feel guilty about leaving for a big market team.

Why would you leave a championship team to go play for the Knicks or someone? Maybe to go team up with another star. But to me that would hurt his legacy. At least from my view.

If you win a bunch of titles in Cleveland, where you started and took them from a 15 win team to a multiple champions, I would view that a lot more favorably than him going to Miami and winning 8 titles with Wade.

I don't think he leaves Cleveland either way though.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

On TNT they just said that Amare might be traded to the Cavs.