What happens if don't get one of the big 3?

[houheffna]

Wade has had better teams than Bosh for most of their careers. And how long do you think Wade has left to play at this level? He has had many injuries in his career. He and Rose are too similar in how they operate on the court. Wade has to have the ball, what are you going to do with Rose? If Wade is "just a notch above" then you take the frontcourt guy, period. You totally underestimate Bosh, and you don't win a championship with Wade and Rose, which would be the only way to justify bringing in Wade over Bosh, you can win with Lebron though. But I think you are contradicting yourself...you make the case as if Bosh was far inferior to Wade, which this year is not the case, but Wade is just a notch above...which is it?

 

[TheStig]

Your looking at it one dimensionally. Offensively, (this year and this year alone) they have similar preduction but Wade gets his teammates involved more and plays better defense. He can also single hanedly take over ball games. He is a clearly a notch above him this year. Bosh is a top 7-10 player this year, Wade has been a top 5 player for the last few years. If anything I thought he deserved the mvp last year, he had the numbers.

Wade has had better teams when he came into the league but these past two years he has crap. That team struggles to win 15 games without him. He make them a 45 game winner, they had one of the best turnarounds ever when he came in healthy last year. Bosh has played with equally bad teams in the past and missed the playoffs. My contridiction as you call it comes in because Bosh this year is a top 10 player. Bosh past years isn't. He was a top 20 player, so I keep going back and forth when discussing him because he is a better player this year then anytime in the past. How long can he keep this up? Last year he started the season on a similar pace and then slowed down. you just know your getting a top 5 player in wade.

 

[houheffna]

Your looking at it one dimensionally. Offensively, (this year and this year alone) they have similar preduction but Wade gets his teammates involved more and plays better defense. He can also single hanedly take over ball games. He is a clearly a notch above him this year. Bosh is a top 7-10 player this year, Wade has been a top 5 player for the last few years. If anything I thought he deserved the mvp last year, he had the numbers.

Wade has had better teams when he came into the league but these past two years he has crap. That team struggles to win 15 games without him. He make them a 45 game winner, they had one of the best turnarounds ever when he came in healthy last year. Bosh has played with equally bad teams in the past and missed the playoffs. My contridiction as you call it comes in because Bosh this year is a top 10 player. Bosh past years isn't. He was a top 20 player, so I keep going back and forth when discussing him because he is a better player this year then anytime in the past. How long can he keep this up? Last year he started the season on a similar pace and then slowed down. you just know your getting a top 5 player in wade.

I think my only issue with your points is that the Bulls already have a player who makes his teammates better and though he is a liability defensively, offensively, he is an all star. Bosh addresses more needs than Wade does, plain and simple. For example, Noah needs Bosh much more than Rose needs Wade, Rose needs consistent outside shooting. You can find that for much cheaper than a max contract. Bosh can run with him and post up. Dude scoring over 24 a game...gotta go with Bosh. Can't lose with either but Bosh has been the best at his position all year...I think that gives the Bulls one of the dominant frontcourts in the NBA which is a big key to a championship...

 

[Shakes]

Stig, it's a fair point about Bosh possibly having a career year. However even if he was putting up last year's numbers, what bigs are better than him? I mean when Horford makes the all-star game, there are just no star quality up and coming bigs. While in absolute terms Bosh is not as good as Wade, relative to the competition he might be better.

And really, is Wade carrying the team that much more than Bosh is? Would a team based on Bargnani & Calderon really be much better than O'Neal and Beasley? Going right down the two rosters, I don't see Toronto minus Bosh as being that different to Miami minus Wade in terms of talent.

I think if it actually came down to having a choice it would be a real tough call as to which is the guy.

 

[RPK]

If we don't get one of the big 3 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh),consolation prizes of getting J.Johnson and D.Lee might not be that terrible.

Isn't a starting lineup of:

rose
JJohnson
Deng
Lee
Noah

enough to compete for a championship?

We'd have terrific size in the backcourt (easily the best shot-block/rebounding guard combo in the NBA)and a nice balance of defense and scoring.


It may not end up being 'Big 3 or bust' after all.

 

[ForeverKing]

wouldnt mind as plan d. being lee and joe cool. why joe cool would leave an amazing team and more money isnt likely

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Your looking at it one dimensionally. Offensively, (this year and this year alone) they have similar preduction but Wade gets his teammates involved more and plays better defense. He can also single hanedly take over ball games. He is a clearly a notch above him this year. Bosh is a top 7-10 player this year, Wade has been a top 5 player for the last few years. If anything I thought he deserved the mvp last year, he had the numbers.

Wade has had better teams when he came into the league but these past two years he has crap. That team struggles to win 15 games without him. He make them a 45 game winner, they had one of the best turnarounds ever when he came in healthy last year. Bosh has played with equally bad teams in the past and missed the playoffs. My contridiction as you call it comes in because Bosh this year is a top 10 player. Bosh past years isn't. He was a top 20 player, so I keep going back and forth when discussing him because he is a better player this year then anytime in the past. How long can he keep this up? Last year he started the season on a similar pace and then slowed down. you just know your getting a top 5 player in wade.

I think my only issue with your points is that the Bulls already have a player who makes his teammates better and though he is a liability defensively, offensively, he is an all star. Bosh addresses more needs than Wade does, plain and simple. For example, Noah needs Bosh much more than Rose needs Wade, Rose needs consistent outside shooting. You can find that for much cheaper than a max contract. Bosh can run with him and post up. Dude scoring over 24 a game...gotta go with Bosh. Can't lose with either but Bosh has been the best at his position all year...I think that gives the Bulls one of the dominant frontcourts in the NBA which is a big key to a championship...

oh I agree a 100% that Bosh is a better fit. I would go as far as to say that Wade is a ok fit at best with the current group and that Bosh is near ideal but great players win rings and neither bosh or rose are that. Wade is.

A couple of points I differ on, I don't think Rose really makes anyone better. No one with the exception of Salmons is anywhere near their career bests. I exclude noah because he is so young and naturally improves. Rose doesn't really make anyone better, he doesn't motivate, he occasionally creates but I wouldn't put Rose on that level, at least not yet. I also don't think you need a dominant front court, the lakers won't dominant. You just need an above average front court and a all your really missing is someone at pf. Maybe its just me but I just get the aura of career loser from bosh.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I don't know, even if Wade is a better player than Bosh, wings just aren't as important as bigs. I'd feel a lot more confident of being able to find a decent SG to put with Bosh than find a decent PF to put with Wade. Having your best two players be your guards hasn't traditionally gotten teams far, a guard and a big is the proven formula. So I can see the appeal of Bosh, even if Wade is perhaps the second best player in the league right now.

Ultimately though I'll take any of the big three who are willing to come here. This is like arguing over whether you'd rather have a billion dollars worth of gold or diamonds. :laugh:

Wings are more important than bigs in todays nba. 20 years ago I would agree with you but today the rules are geared toward them and they dominate the game. There isn't even a big in the MVP discussions.

Lol, gotta agree, I take who I can too. We will be lucky to get any of them.

 

[houheffna]

oh I agree a 100% that Bosh is a better fit. I would go as far as to say that Wade is a ok fit at best with the current group and that Bosh is near ideal but great players win rings and neither bosh or rose are that. Wade is.

A couple of points I differ on, I don't think Rose really makes anyone better. No one with the exception of Salmons is anywhere near their career bests. I exclude noah because he is so young and naturally improves. Rose doesn't really make anyone better, he doesn't motivate, he occasionally creates but I wouldn't put Rose on that level, at least not yet. I also don't think you need a dominant front court, the lakers won't dominant. You just need an above average front court and a all your really missing is someone at pf. Maybe its just me but I just get the aura of career loser from bosh.

Bosh is playing great basketball right now, not good or very good, he is having a fantastic year. Because the league does not have dominant bigs does not lessen the value of a dominant big. Since 2000, 7 championships were won by teams who had a big man as their franchise player. Having a dominant post presence is the easiest way to succeed.

 

[fola]

apparently the bulls have told salmons to stay at the hotel as the iron out a trade...per KC.

 

[Shakes]

RPK wrote:

If we don't get one of the big 3 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh),consolation prizes of getting J.Johnson and D.Lee might not be that terrible.

Isn't a starting lineup of:

rose
JJohnson
Deng
Lee
Noah

enough to compete for a championship?

We'd have terrific size in the backcourt (easily the best shot-block/rebounding guard combo in the NBA)and a nice balance of defense and scoring.


It may not end up being 'Big 3 or bust' after all.

How are you making space for Lee and Johnson while keeping Deng?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Shakes wrote:

RPK wrote:

If we don't get one of the big 3 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh),consolation prizes of getting J.Johnson and D.Lee might not be that terrible.

Isn't a starting lineup of:

rose
JJohnson
Deng
Lee
Noah

enough to compete for a championship?

We'd have terrific size in the backcourt (easily the best shot-block/rebounding guard combo in the NBA)and a nice balance of defense and scoring.


It may not end up being 'Big 3 or bust' after all.

How are you making space for Lee and Johnson while keeping Deng?

My initial guess is by dumping everyone else.

 

[fola]

RPK wrote:

If we don't get one of the big 3 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh),consolation prizes of getting J.Johnson and D.Lee might not be that terrible.

Isn't a starting lineup of:

rose
JJohnson
Deng
Lee
Noah

enough to compete for a championship?

No. It's far from enough, and we'd be screwing yourselves for a long time. We'd be overpaying JJ for most of his contract (29 next year.. and he really isnt worth the max anyways. And we'd probably be overpaying for Lee too (and i'm a huge lee fan)

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Maybe its just me but I just get the aura of career loser from bosh.

I don't see it. When he's played with talented team mates (really only the ASG and Olympics to go on here) he's looked really good. If anything he seems to be the type of guy who if you gave him another all-star player to play with he'd lift his game.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Maybe its just me but I just get the aura of career loser from bosh.

I don't see it. When he's played with talented team mates (really only the ASG and Olympics to go on here) he's looked really good. If anything he seems to be the type of guy who if you gave him another all-star player to play with he'd lift his game.

He doesn't want an another allstar, he wants to be the man when he clearly is a 2nd guy on a championship team. Maybe that means he likes Rose and will sign here but that strikes me as selfish. He also hasn't gotten anywhere with his team.

 

[houheffna]

He doesn't want an another allstar, he wants to be the man when he clearly is a 2nd guy on a championship team. Maybe that means he likes Rose and will sign here but that strikes me as selfish. He also hasn't gotten anywhere with his team.

What facts do you have to back that up? Maybe he thinks a little bit more of himself than you think of him...I certainly hope so...

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

He doesn't want an another allstar, he wants to be the man when he clearly is a 2nd guy on a championship team. Maybe that means he likes Rose and will sign here but that strikes me as selfish. He also hasn't gotten anywhere with his team.

What facts do you have to back that up? Maybe he thinks a little bit more of himself than you think of him...I certainly hope so...

When did I say Bosh was a bad player, if you read what I wrote I called him a top 10 player. Please don't put words in my mouth. Wade is just better he is a top 5 guy for the past 3-4 years and has snuck into the top 3 a couple of those times.

Bosh said

“It’s funny you say that, because I was thinking about it. I was just looking at what people say and it’s like, ‘Chris is going to go here and play with him or this, this and that.’ I’m like, ‘Wait a minute.’ I feel like I should be built around. And maybe that’s just my ego talking, but I feel that I’m a very good player in this league and I’m only going to get better. So … maybe we should be getting somebody [in Toronto].”

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13095/bosh-im-the-kind-of-player-you-can-build-around

 

[ForeverKing]

anyone think rose had any conversations with bosh or wade about playing together last weekend. rose is a quite guy it seems

 

[postdiction]

ForeverKing wrote:

anyone think rose had any conversations with bosh or wade about playing together last weekend. rose is a quite guy it seems

His play speaks volumes and if those players realize his talent/work ethic/desire to win they will want to play with him. Plus now he is actually drawing a lot of fouls. If he develops a 3pt shot and is more consistent with his jumper he is going to be a top 10 player.

I just hope this Jameson to Cleveland isn't enough to convince LBJ to stay in Cleveland.

 

[houheffna]

When did I say Bosh was a bad player, if you read what I wrote I called him a top 10 player. Please don't put words in my mouth. Wade is just better he is a top 5 guy for the past 3-4 years and has snuck into the top 3 a couple of those times.

Bosh said
“It’s funny you say that, because I was thinking about it. I was just looking at what people say and it’s like, ‘Chris is going to go here and play with him or this, this and that.’ I’m like, ‘Wait a minute.’ I feel like I should be built around. And maybe that’s just my ego talking, but I feel that I’m a very good player in this league and I’m only going to get better. So … maybe we should be getting somebody [in Toronto].”

What words did I put in your mouth dude? When did I accuse you of calling Bosh a bad player? I get confidence from the quotation that you put up of Bosh, yet, it strikes you as selfish if he signs here in Chicago....what??? He has the skill to be the main guy, he doesn't have the mentality in my opinion, but my opinion is limited to the little I have seen of him, though I have seen a great deal of him this season. He has toughened up quite a bit...nothing wrong with him saying what he said...