What is the fascination on this board with Mahomes?

[bearlythere]

That has more to do with it than perceived value, I think.

People - like Pace, I imagine, since I'm predicting he and Fox trade for a veteran QB as opposed to drafting one at 3 - are too afraid to bust out so high in the draft.

 

[FirstTimer]

Also, FWIW on this board there is always the hype train around some non-1st round QB, a few years ago it was Garrett Grayson, last year some people hopped the Kevin Hogan bandwagon, etc.

It's pretty typical.

 

[FirstTimer]

The Kevin Hogan bandwagon was pretty weak, even by CCS bandwagon standards. Hogan was like Jermaine Jackson to Daniel Braverman's Michael Jackson.

I think we have even had a decent amount of Sudfeld threads as well.

 

[dweebs19]

Exactly. I've been wondering the same thing. This is his "highlight" video. I guess I can see the arm talent, but other than that, his footwork and mechanics are terrible. [video=youtube;CdlpfRRLGHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdlpfRRLGHY[/video]

 

[bearmick]

I think people are scared of missing on a QB at #3 rather than missing on a QB at #35. When you could just as easily miss on any other position at #3.

Since the Bears last went to the playoffs, they have have wasted first round draft picks on Gabe Carimi, Shea McLellin, Kyle Fuller and Kevin White. But apparently risking it on a QB is just a bridge too far :bizarro:

 

[Hawkeye OG]

Blah, blah, blah. You are forgetting that Kyle Fuller made PFF First team All Pro his rookie year, tho, thus making him more valuable of a pick than Ben Roethlisberger.

Do you have access to those stats?

 

[ob1force]

Can people stop calling Bama an NFL caliber defense? None of those guys have played a down in the pros, and everybody continues to hype them up for the sake of legitimizing Watson it seems.

It reminds me very much of the USC vs Texas national championship, a lot of talk about how the game was loaded with NFL talent. Take a look at both rosters and tell me how "NFL caliber" they really were. I'll save you the time, they weren't.

Manziel lit up Bama once upon a time. Chad Kelly lit up Bama too this past season. What Watson did on Monday night was great but it's not even close to what he's going to face in the NFL.

As for Mahomes, I'm not a fan but what people seem to love about him is his arm talent. He throws a great deep ball, has a rocket for an arm, can let it rip through the tightest of windows.

The problem is that he lacks major fundamentals while doing this, relies way too much on his arm strength. He's very much like Cutler in this sense. Mahomes won't get away with this in the pros. IMO, he's a big time project who needs at least 2 years to refine all his mechanics. He needs to go to a team like GB, KC, etc. where they can buy him time. If you throw him in there too early, he'll bust.

 

[dabears70]

"The only difference is that Watson has absolutely shredded the best defense in football - stacked with NFL-level talent, mind you - two years running."

I'd say that's a big difference.

Chad Kelly did to so maybe we should draft him

 

[hyatt151]

You've nailed it. That really does seem to be how people think. People are way too concerned with the sum of draft value. Too concerned with where players are picked rather than picking the right players.

"Yeah that guy could be our QB, but [insert media outlet/draft blog] has their grade lower than #3, so let's draft some defender and dumpster dive for the QB later, where the value is right". :facepalm:

Definitely, thought this would end with Cutler's demise. Apparently not. THIS IS THE DRAFT WE HAVE TO GO QB AT 3!! We can all argue who that QB should be, but that should be for our message board give and take. Pace needs to make his decision and run with it!! Watson is my personal choice, FWIW.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Exactly. I've been wondering the same thing. This is his "highlight" video. I guess I can see the arm talent, but other than that, his footwork and mechanics are terrible. [video=youtube;CdlpfRRLGHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdlpfRRLGHY[/video]

I can't even enjoy this because I'm too distracted by whatever it is his does with his right foot when he throws.

 

[bearmick]

Definitely, thought this would end with Cutler's demise. Apparently not. THIS IS THE DRAFT WE HAVE TO GO QB AT 3!! We can all argue who that QB should be, but that should be for our message board give and take. Pace needs to make his decision and run with it!! Watson is my personal choice, FWIW.

Most people seem to agree that without the absurd amount of injuries and an improved secondary (from FA and/or the draft), this is closer to a .500 team than a 3-13 team. Do these people downplaying this QB class really think they're going to get more talent than Watson/Kizer/Trubisky with the 17th pick next year?

I think there's so much made of the whole not lunging at needs thing that it's gone too far in the other direction and people are overly cautious now. I say strike while the iron is hot. This is the first time the Bears have drafted in the top 3 in the 16-game NFL era; I have no idea when it'll happen again. Swing for the fences and get the QB.

Watson is my choice too, but if Pace likes Kizer or Trubisky better, cool. Just go for it.

 

[thenewguy]

Can people stop calling Bama an NFL caliber defense? None of those guys have played a down in the pros, and everybody continues to hype them up for the sake of legitimizing Watson it seems.

It reminds me very much of the USC vs Texas national championship, a lot of talk about how the game was loaded with NFL talent. Take a look at both rosters and tell me how "NFL caliber" they really were. I'll save you the time, they weren't.

Manziel lit up Bama once upon a time. Chad Kelly lit up Bama too this past season. What Watson did on Monday night was great but it's not even close to what he's going to face in the NFL.

As for Mahomes, I'm not a fan but what people seem to love about him is his arm talent. He throws a great deep ball, has a rocket for an arm, can let it rip through the tightest of windows.

The problem is that he lacks major fundamentals while doing this, relies way too much on his arm strength. He's very much like Cutler in this sense. Mahomes won't get away with this in the pros. IMO, he's a big time project who needs at least 2 years to refine all his mechanics. He needs to go to a team like GB, KC, etc. where they can buy him time. If you throw him in there too early, he'll bust.

Completely agree with the bolded. I'll go as far as saying he has the worst mechanics for a pro prospect since Tebow. Not only does he need to be completely broken down from a mechanical standpoint, but he needs to be taught the game of football because he plays in a complete gimmick offense and honestly doesn't even to seem to operate within that offense, he is literally playing back yard football.

His arm talent is undeniable but I can't see a scenario where he should start a game withing the first two years in the league. He would need the full Aaron Rodgers treatment.

 

[modo]

The only value I want at QB is someone significantly better and more long term than what we have. I don't give a shit where we draft him.

 

[Sagbear]

Agree with everyone else, its the BPA argument. If both Watson and Mahomes were there in the 2nd Im sure everyone would want Watson.

If the Bears go Watson or Trubisky at 3 all we could do is hope he pans out and try and put the best oline we can in front of him, (Both Tackle positions need to be addressed) but both would greatly benefit from a veteran QB to learn from.

 

[ZenBear34]

Most people seem to agree that without the absurd amount of injuries and an improved secondary (from FA and/or the draft), this is closer to a .500 team than a 3-13 team. Do these people downplaying this QB class really think they're going to get more talent than Watson/Kizer/Trubisky with the 17th pick next year?

I think there's so much made of the whole not lunging at needs thing that it's gone too far in the other direction and people are overly cautious now. I say strike while the iron is hot. This is the first time the Bears have drafted in the top 3 in the 16-game NFL era; I have no idea when it'll happen again. Swing for the fences and get the QB.

Watson is my choice too, but if Pace likes Kizer or Trubisky better, cool. Just go for it.

Okay, but you can't then get mad at Pace when said quarterback is a bust and Allen and Garrett and Hooker and Adams and Humphrey etc are making multiple pro bowls.I would love to see an elite quarterback prospect, but just because I want there to be one doesn't mean there is one.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Okay, but you can't then get mad at Pace when said quarterback is a bust and Allen and Garrett and Hooker and Adams and Humphrey etc are making multiple pro bowls.I would love to see an elite quarterback prospect, but just because I want there to be one doesn't mean there is one.

It's like this board has collective amnesia.

 

[Bearly]

Can people stop calling Bama an NFL caliber defense? None of those guys have played a down in the pros, and everybody continues to hype them up for the sake of legitimizing Watson it seems.

It reminds me very much of the USC vs Texas national championship, a lot of talk about how the game was loaded with NFL talent. Take a look at both rosters and tell me how "NFL caliber" they really were. I'll save you the time, they weren't.

Manziel lit up Bama once upon a time. Chad Kelly lit up Bama too this past season. What Watson did on Monday night was great but it's not even close to what he's going to face in the NFL.

As for Mahomes, I'm not a fan but what people seem to love about him is his arm talent. He throws a great deep ball, has a rocket for an arm, can let it rip through the tightest of windows.

The problem is that he lacks major fundamentals while doing this, relies way too much on his arm strength. He's very much like Cutler in this sense. Mahomes won't get away with this in the pros. IMO, he's a big time project who needs at least 2 years to refine all his mechanics. He needs to go to a team like GB, KC, etc. where they can buy him time. If you throw him in there too early, he'll bust.

I agree with all this except that he stays accurate with those mechanics and can make throws with various arm angles and body positions. He's a natural thrower and Jay is just strong. I'm not advocating Mahomes early at all but when I see a QB that has to rely on great mechanics to make throws, it concerns me just as much. You want some natural athletic ability to toss the rock mixed in. You also want a guy with a repeatable motion from the pocket to help make those tight NFL throws. Doesn't have to be perfect but repeatable. Even Rodgers has taken to more jump throws to save his legs but I wouldn't complain about his motion. His in balance which I think is key. For me, Mahomes is worth about where Firstimer has him but if he shows he can drop and step into his throws this spring, he'll have someone reaching and really, I wouldn't blame them. He's a wild card but intriguing prospect.

 

[FirstTimer]

I agree with all this except that he stays accurate with those mechanics and can make throws with various arm angles and body positions. He's a natural thrower and Jay is just strong. I'm not advocating Mahomes early at all but when I see a QB that has to rely on great mechanics to make throws, it concerns me just as much. You want some natural athletic ability to toss the rock mixed in. You also want a guy with a repeatable motion from the pocket to help make those tight NFL throws. Doesn't have to be perfect but repeatable. Even Rodgers has taken to more jump throws to save his legs but I wouldn't complain about his motion. His in balance which I think is key. For me, Mahomes is worth about where Firstimer has him but if he shows he can drop and step into his throws this spring, he'll have someone reaching and really, I wouldn't blame them. He's a wild card but intriguing prospect.

If I'm dice rolling on anyone right now, especially for a team that can let a guy sit a year or two(SD, Arizona, NO etc) I'm rolling them on Seth Russell.

If the medicals come back positive I wouldn't all be mad with the Bears taking him.

 

[Bearly]

I still take my guy at 3 and don't look back. Wouldn't mind Seth along for the ride as a 3rd day get. I mean really. Lets get some numbers into this equation.

 

[bearmick]

Okay, but you can't then get mad at Pace when said quarterback is a bust and Allen and Garrett and Hooker and Adams and Humphrey etc are making multiple pro bowls.I would love to see an elite quarterback prospect, but just because I want there to be one doesn't mean there is one.

Again with the assumption that if the Bears draft a QB he'll bust but all the defensive players they didn't take are going to be Reggie White and Ronnie Lott. LOL. If you're starting off assuming that, there's no point discussing it any further. Just keep going defense and prioritizing value over talent at the most important position. I'm sure that will lead to Superbowls.

As far as "elite prospects" are concerned, if you want to wait until the Bears happen to be picking 1st overall in a Manning/Luck year, cool. We can bump this thread in the 2158 offseason and you can tell me how it went.