Where do the Cubs Stand in the Division (Category Break-down)

[tbo41fan]

They aren't stats!

It is a system of opinions and averages!

Opinions are not fact, and averages are skewed by others, which means you are basing how well Soriano plays defense based on how well or terrible others play. DUMB!

 

[AddisonStation]

This debate in no way proves that saber metrics are illegitimate stats.

 

[Captain Obvious]

They aren't stats!

It is a system of opinions and averages!

Opinions are not fact, and averages are skewed by others, which means you are basing how well Soriano plays defense based on how well or terrible others play. DUMB!

How is basing what Soriano does compared to his peers dumb? You do realize that that is how the world works, right? I don't know if they teach you that in college or not.

 

[tbo41fan]

How is basing what Soriano does compared to his peers dumb? You do realize that that is how the world works, right? I don't know if they teach you that in college or not.

It's the fact that the other players have more attempts in the outfield or less.

The stats are skewed

 

[DewsSox79]

This debate in no way proves that saber metrics are illegitimate stats.

not all are.

but to use UZR soley to say what is in my sig is insane.

 

[tbo41fan]

It would be fair if they played in the same park, with the same pitcher, and the same team.


UZR tries to compensate this with opinion based numbers like that park rating...that's dumb

 

[Captain Obvious]

It's the fact that the other players have more attempts in the outfield or less.

The stats are skewed

That's part of why we use such a large sample size, so those things get ironed out.

We can also use other stats like RZR, which give us a percentage to make it fair.

 

[AddisonStation]

It would be fair if they played in the same park, with the same pitcher, and the same team.


UZR tries to compensate this with opinion based numbers like that park rating...that's dumb

I don't think so. It's better than assuming all parks are the same.

 

[Captain Obvious]

not all are.

but to use UZR soley to say what is in my sig is insane.

So now UZR is a POS stat? Cool.


Okay, here are your stats for you.

rARM, which is number of outfield arms runs saved: 5 years: 34(next is Willingham with 16) 4 years: 24(Willingham again in 2nd with 12) 3 years: 7(2nd to only Crawford and Ibanez who have 8). Pretty freakin' great.

rPM, which is plus or minus the number of runs saved: 3 years: - 10. Which may seem bad, but it's 4th best. 4 years: -11(again 4th). 5 years: 0(3rd best, behind Holliday and Carl.) While these numbers aren't great, they aren't bad. Which is the point I'm trying to get across to you.

DRS, or defensive runs saved. Over 5 years, he is 2nd to only Crawford. 4 years, 3rd to Holliday and Crawford. Same for 3 years.

RZR, revised zone rating, he is in the middle of the pack for each of the 3 year increments I am using.

TZL, total zone with location, is basically another form of UZR. 5 years: Soriano was great with a 23.6 TZL, 2nd to only Mr. Crawford. 4 years: 3rd to Carl and Holliday, with a 2.3, which is still considered average. 3 years: -2.6, which is still average, but it was good enough for 2nd.

TZ, total zone without location has Soriano in the top 3 year each time, too.

So tell me, Dewey, what is it that Soriano is doing wrong?

 

[Jntg4]

You can call me an attention getter all you want.

Isn't that the point of a play anyway?

 

[tbo41fan]

Disagree.

What if I made up my own park ratings which showed Soriano as a terrible UZR?
Would it be ok then?

How do we know this park rating is accurate?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Disagree.

What if I made up my own park ratings which showed Soriano as a terrible UZR?
Would it be ok then?

How do we know this park rating is accurate?

He more than likely wouldn't have a terrible UZR, in comparison to the others. Sure a -75 UZR would look bad, but not if the league is averaging a -100.

We know that it is accurate, because he isn't just sitting down and saying this is what I think. He is using data of fly balls and line drives to accurately measure these zones.

 

[Jntg4]

soriano would probably play better on his knees in LF. dude kinda sucks out there.

So Kerry got on his knees for you I take it?

 

[Jntg4]

So because all the stats point to him being a good LFer and your eyes say no, that makes him bad? What else do you have besides this see-say?

Ummm.... HD TV?

 

[tbo41fan]

He more than likely wouldn't have a terrible UZR, in comparison to the others. Sure a -75 UZR would look bad, but not if the league is averaging a -100.

We know that it is accurate, because he isn't just sitting down and saying this is what I think. He is using data of fly balls and line drives to accurately measure these zones.

Flyballs and line drives make outfields easier or harder to play?

Again, it's using something other than what the player does or affects to judge him

 

[Captain Obvious]

Flyballs and line drives make outfields easier or harder to play?

Again, it's using something other than what the player does or affects to judge him

I fail to see what is wrong with comparing him with his peers.

 

[Jntg4]

I fail to see what is wrong with comparing him with his peers.

Spoiler

It makes you racist if you say something bad about this post.

 

[tbo41fan]

I fail to see what is wrong with comparing him with his peers.

Because if more players have high stats, and some have low stats, the low stat guys look better when multiplied or divided by this beefed up "average"

 

[AddisonStation]

Isn't it possible you guys are putting too much stock into his handful of ugly plays?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Because if more players have high stats, and some have low stats, the low stat guys look better when multiplied or divided by this beefed up "average"

But that's why we use large sample sizes, so those who have low stats are not just a fluke and the same for the ones with high stats.