Who Is Your Least Favorite Cub?

[nwfisch]

You mad?

Op-Ed Contributor - Let Steroids Into the Hall of Fame - NYTimes.com

As for Z, he did not blow up every season. Way to let your imagination go wild. He had last year, the DLee fight, and the Barrett fight.

He also got ejected numerous times in 09, 08, and every other year he was with the Cubs.

 

[Captain Obvious]

He quit on his team. He put the team in bad positions numerous times throughout his career by leaving the game early and not taking care of his body.

Your favorite executives payed $15M to keep Zambrano away and took on more salary to keep him away.

You guys act like he was the worst player in the history of the world. I'm not saying he should have his number retired. I'm saying he was a pretty damn good pitcher for this team. For the number of bad positions he put the Cubs in, how many good ones did he put them in?

 

[Captain Obvious]

He also got ejected numerous times in 09, 08, and every other year he was with the Cubs.

Bobby Cox got ejected numerous times in his career. Does that mean he isn't one of the best manager's in Braves history?

 

[nwfisch]

You guys act like he was the worst player in the history of the world. I'm not saying he should have his number retired. I'm saying he was a pretty damn good pitcher for this team. For the number of bad positions he put the Cubs in, how many good ones did he put them in?

And conversely, you're acting like there is no doubt about Zambrano being a top 10 pitcher in Cubs history.

 

[FirstTimer]

So what if he used Steroids. He wasn't the only player to use steroids. He wasn't the only player to ever cheat, either.

Sosa's entire career is a sham.

He should be hated.

Well considering we're talking about the Cubs organization, I think it means something...

No it doesn't.

He's 2nd on the team in K's, 8th in Wins, and 3rd in WAR.

Ok. Most of this is false.

He is not 8th in wins. He's 15th.

He is not 3rd in WAR. He's 11th.

He's certainly not the biggest piece of shit on the team, now is he?

Yes. he is.

Considering that the Cubs haven't had many great pitchers, he is one of the best.

1. No shit to the bolded. But they've had 5 HOF pitcher alone pitch major chunks of their career here. And other who were far better though not HOFers.

One of the best in the organization's history.

He absolutely is not.

As far as where would I rank him, somewhere in the top 10.

Jesus that's awful.


In no real order:
Jenkins
Maddux
Root
Alexander
Brown
Vaughn
Hutchinson
Bush
Griffith
Lee

That's 10 STARTERS alone I'd rank ahead of him and I tried to stay away as much as I could from guys who notched 30 wins seasons in the 1880's and 1890's.

Throw in relievers like Lee Smith, a combo guy like Dempster(a real stretch but he's been a glue guy and not a complete tool bag) and the 1880's/1890's guys and Zambrano is scraping maybe around 15-20 all time based on stats/contrbutions alone. Throw in the off the field/on the field tantrums and problems and you could maybe slide him down to Top 25 at best.

Top 10 is laughable and shows you know literally nothing about the history of this franchise. Big Z is lucky Lilly wasn't here longer or I'd bump him ahead of him.

 

[nwfisch]

Bobby Cox got ejected numerous times in his career. Does that mean he isn't one of the best manager's in Braves history?

Managers importance in baseball is not even close to the importance of starting pitching.

Players performance is much more important than managerial decision making.

 

[FirstTimer]

You guys act like he was the worst player in the history of the world.

No. We are acting like he's a hated player(he is) and not one of the top 10 Cubs pitchers of all time(he isn't).

Way to jump overboard though kid.

Bobby Cox got ejected numerous times in his career. Does that mean he isn't one of the best manager's in Braves history?

LOL at this.

Managers get ejected constantly. No matter how good or bad.

How many starting pitchers have a history of semi chronic ejections and assbag behavior? I would say it's much more rare wouldn't you? Especially when discussing top 10 pitchers of all time for an over 130 year old franchise that never won 20 games. Never won a cy young, never won a WS...and got traded because people on the team didn't want him there anymore.

Apples meet Special person.

 

[Jntg4]

Hippo Vaughn
Gaby Hartnett
Killefer

Hate them too!

 

[FirstTimer]

As usual CO says something completely idiotic and get pimp smacked around.

Jesus. His rankings of Big Z all time aren't even close to correct..and the rankings are on the previous page.

 

[Uman85]

Just when I think CO couldn't possibly post anything dumber, I read this thread. Massive fail.


I wish stupidity was a bannable offense.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think CO should be a writer here and he can have "CO's Bad Baseball Thought of the Week".

This week:

Carlos Zambrano: Top 10 Cubs Pitcher of All Time...based on made up stats!

 

[Rice Cube]

I think CO overrated Zambrano, and I don't think anyone here ever said he was a bad pitcher. He was very solid for a long time before his arm/head/whatever gave out. I think most people don't like him because he's nuts. Personally I thought that was enjoyable, but I can totally understand why people wouldn't like it, not that I agree with them.

Here's something a fellow blogger wrote a while back after Z was traded:

The 4th Annual (and final) How Good Has Carlos Zambrano Been In His Career Post

As for Sosa, I don't really care that he was on the steroids or whatever. He was fun to watch and made Cubs baseball relevant while the rest of the team was sucking. I'll always remember that. I don't really care if other people hate him...I only care about my own memories.

 

[Captain Obvious]

And conversely, you're acting like there is no doubt about Zambrano being a top 10 pitcher in Cubs history.

Go ahead and prove me wrong then.

Sosa's entire career is a sham.

He should be hated.

Why? Because he cheated? I guess an entire generation of baseball players are to be hated then.

Ok. Most of this is false.

He is not 8th in wins. He's 15th.

He is not 3rd in WAR. He's 11th.

Fangraphs begs to differ.

Chicago Cubs Leaderboards

He's 9th. I had a typo.

Chicago Cubs Leaderboards

In no real order:
Jenkins
Maddux
Root
Alexander
Brown
Vaughn
Hutchinson
Bush
Griffith
Lee

That's 10 STARTERS alone I'd rank ahead of him and I tried to stay away as much as I could from guys who notched 30 wins seasons in the 1880's and 1890's.

I challenge Root, Lee, Griffith, Bush, and Hutchinson.

There needs to be some sort of criteria set.

Throw in relievers like Lee Smith, a combo guy like Dempster(a real stretch but he's been a glue guy and not a complete tool bag) and the 1880's/1890's guys and Zambrano is scraping maybe around 15-20 all time based on stats/contrbutions alone. Throw in the off the field/on the field tantrums and problems and you could maybe slide him down to Top 25 at best.

How does being a tool bag or not being a tool bag affect how good a player is? *cough* Ty Cobb *cough*

[/quote]Top 10 is laughable and shows you know literally nothing about the history of this franchise. Big Z is lucky Lilly wasn't here longer or I'd bump him ahead of him.[/QUOTE]

You're high lol. Lilly was well on the decline. Big Z >>>>> Lilly.

Managers importance in baseball is not even close to the importance of starting pitching.

Players performance is much more important than managerial decision making.

You're right. But how did the Cubs fair in the games he was ejected from? And how many games was he ejected in?

 

[Jntg4]

Just when I think CO couldn't possibly post anything dumber, I read this thread. Massive fail.


I wish stupidity was a bannable offense.

It is if you want it to be one.

 

[Jntg4]

I think CO should be a writer here and he can have "CO's Bad Baseball Thought of the Week".

This week:

Carlos Zambrano: Top 10 Cubs Pitcher of All Time...based on made up stats!

He was one, he wrote 3 articles to get his name blue and stopped, then Rush changed his name back.

 

[Captain Obvious]

As usual CO says something completely idiotic and get pimp smacked around.

Jesus. His rankings of Big Z all time aren't even close to correct..and the rankings are on the previous page.

What are the criteria you're using for your list then?

Just when I think CO couldn't possibly post anything dumber, I read this thread. Massive fail.


I wish stupidity was a bannable offense.

Who is in your top 10 then? Be sure to post criteria.

I think CO should be a writer here and he can have "CO's Bad Baseball Thought of the Week".

This week:

Carlos Zambrano: Top 10 Cubs Pitcher of All Time...based on made up stats!

made up stats? lol. you're Special person. wins and K's are made up along with WAR, huh?

 

[FirstTimer]

Go ahead and prove me wrong then.

Already have,.

Why? Because he cheated?

yes.

That would make his career a sham.

I guess an entire generation of baseball players are to be hated then.

Ok.

Fangraphs begs to differ.

1. Fangraphs is shit.

2. He's clearly 15th all time in wins.

STFU.

Again you're making shit up.

I challenge Root, Lee, Griffith, Bush, and Hutchinson.

You're an absolute moron then with no sense of history rleative to when they pitched and what teams they pitched for. I have to laugh you challeneg those guys..when some fo them rank higher in catagories that you cite for Zambrano. But I'm not surprised. Just more non-sensical bullshit on your part.

How does being a tool bag or not being a tool bag affect how good a player is? *cough* Ty Cobb *cough*

The **** are you talking about? You're seriously comparing Ty Cobb(perhaps the second best player ever) to Carlos Zambrano tool bag wise? Are you not seeing the disconnect with this? Ty Cobb people were willing to put up with because he was fucking amazing and his ass hattery didn't effect his performance. Zambrano acting like an idot resulted in suspensions, injuries to teammates, and him being dismissed from the fucking team. Ty Cobb was an asshole..but he was able to balance it with being amazing at baseball. Zambrano was able to balance it with being an above average pitcher at times.

You're high lol. Lilly was well on the decline. Big Z >>>>> Lilly.

Lilly pitched hisbrains out in Chicago. Was a good teammate. Had a better ERA, better win%, and had a near idnetical ERA+ to Z here.

But yeah let's ignore that.

 

[FirstTimer]

What are the criteria you're using for your list then?

No order:

Wins
K's
Saves
ERA
Awards
Peak seasons
Longevity of success
Drinking prowess
Not getting hurt playing guitar hero
Ability to stay hydrated.
Not being a minority.

made up stats? lol. you're Special person. wins and K's are made up along with WAR, huh?

1. WAR isn't a stat.

2. You "made up" the stats and where he ranked. He's 8th in wins! No, he's 15th. WAR isn't a stat..plus you were wrong anyways.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm convinced CO and Rami are just alternate accounts. One spams the Cubs forum with Special person shit. The other the Bulls forum.

 

[FirstTimer]

Gotta love CO's reasoning for Zambrano being top 10 all time is so locked in and well founded that two different sites can't even agree where he ranks all time in Cubs records. Yeah..thats REALLY solid stuff there! On top f that one of them isn't even a stat..it's some made up metric.

Color us all IMPRESSED!