Who still thinks CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The team is based on defense, so Melo would **** things up chemistry wise.

Noah's passion plus his skills, give me that instead.

Luol Deng was the glue of the Bulls last year. Take him off and put Carmelo in his place and that pretty much turns the Bulls from a top defensive team into a very shaky and mediocre defensive team. The best defensive player who is not named Luol Deng would have been... Joakim Noah! And, guess what... if the Bulls trade both Noah and Deng for Carmelo you are basically losing your 2 best defenders for (and your best rebounder) for a guy who takes lower percentage shots and is a rather shitty all-around defensive player.

And how exactly is this Rose, Boozer, Anthony trio supposed to work offensively exactly? Let's assume Boozer is 100% (there's a joke). Then you basically have Anthony taking away all of Boozer's meaningful touches in the post because that is where Anthony demands the ball about half of the time. Boozer was not a good enough weapon in the pick and roll because (a) Miami and Boston defend the pick-and-roll better than almost any team in the league, if not all, and (b) because Rose simply isn't a very good pick-and-roll passer and that is not a viable offensive option. Your best bet is to throw Asik and/or Gibson along with Boozer at almost all times and the only way they are going to score is off of offensive rebounds because Anthony is basically a blackhole with the basketball. Not that Asik is going to give you much more than raw size on defense and the boards (foul prone and a liability on offense) anyway.

 

[FirstTimer]

The team is based on defense, so Melo would **** things up chemistry wise.

Noah's passion plus his skills, give me that instead.

Yeah Noah looked realpassionate and I'm sure really helped chemistry riding the pine in crunch time of the ECF.

AND he was an offensive threat.

:rolling:

You're fucking delusional.

If Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem didn't come back

Tremendous argument. If the Heat don't get two key role players back the Bulls may have won!

Wow.

Carmelo Anthony is not this superstar player.

Yes he is.

He has gotten owned by LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and the actual stars of the league since basically his arrival in Denver.

Utter bullshit.

Melo and Lebron had some classic battles. One that comes to mind was the one in Cleveland during Bron's last season there.

Building a team with the main core of Rose+Anthony+Boozer does not belong on the same planet as a core of James+Wade+Bosh.

Yeah. Because Boozer is the weak link. Melo isn't the issue there. Boozer is.

You can't just sacrifice team chemistry to build a star team and expect to win a championship.

No WAI!

The way the pieces fit together for the Bulls is already a much better fundamentally-sound group than how Miami plays.

We saw how well that worked out when Miami was full strength.


I love how you are so damn concentrated on last season still when the point of getting Melo would have been to team him and Rose up for the better part of decade. It wasn't and still would not have been a one season proposition

But keep on with your absurd Noah love while he sits during crunch time during the most important games of the season.

 

[FirstTimer]

And how exactly is this Rose, Boozer, Anthony trio supposed to work offensively exactly? Let's assume Boozer is 100% (there's a joke). Then you basically have Anthony taking away all of Boozer's meaningful touches in the post because that is where Anthony demands the ball about half of the time.

Yeah because clearly as a Bulls fan we have never seen a multiple post offense work. Nor in a place like LA. Etc.


Is a double post/high low offense that outside of your ability when talking basketball?

Running a variant of the Flex/Motion offense with Boozer/Melo/Rose would have worked fine.

But that is apparently beyond you.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rami again tards up a basketball thread.

 

[FirstTimer]

I still can't believe Rami's arguement(as a "Bulls fan") is that trying to run a multiple post offense wouldn't work or would be an issue.

That is worth a million times over.

 

[FirstTimer]

Carmelo vs Lebron
Carmelo Anthony vs. LeBron James | Basketball-Reference.com



Carmelo vs Wade
Carmelo Anthony vs. Dwyane Wade | Basketball-Reference.com

Carmelo vs Kobe
Carmelo Anthony vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com

LOL at Rami not knowing what he is talking about(again). Melo is at or near career averages against all those guys and holds winning records against each of them except Kobe.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Yeah Noah looked realpassionate and I'm sure really helped chemistry riding the pine in crunch time of the ECF.

You're fucking delusional.

This is a guy who has shown that he can do a lot in terms of offense when he is at 100%. He was not at 100%. Noah is one of the best defensive players and rebounders in the league. And he completely destroyed the Cavs' front-line back in 2010 in that first round series. This is a guy who would have eaten Anthony and Haslem alive if either were forced to defend him. Noah did not have that explosive first step that allowed him to be that 15+ point scorer per-game that he has shown the ability to do while at 100%. And, regardless of what you want to claim post-thumb surgery, his jump-shot was pretty much on the money if he was uncovered last season. All of those things were taken away against the Heat.

argument. If the Heat don't get two key role players back the Bulls may have won!

And now the Heat will probably be forced to cut one of those players if the new CBA allows for it. They probably won't be able to even get Chalmers back. That team is not looking much better unless Wade/James/Bosh learn how to play together in an efficient way in a half-court set. They were completely unable to do that last year, and the Bulls should like their chances going forward if the Heat do not improve as a team and decide what their bread-and-butter diet of offense will be in close games down-the-stretch.

Yes he is.

He is arguably the most natural scorer in the game, but the problem is that he forces up terrible contested jumps-shots too often. A lot of the time, it has worked for him but he is far from consistent. He is not able to get into the lane like LeBron or Wade and get to the line at will. This isn't exactly the smartest offensive player in the league. When was the last time a team won a championship with a great scorer who was as unwilling of a passer as Anthony? Bryant was a very good passer. Wade was a very capable passer due to his penetration ability. Jordan was a great and willing passer. Bird was. Kareem was. Chamberlain was a willing passer. Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker were all willing passers. Olajuwon was a willing passer. Anthony isn't. The main thing Anthony would do is take away shots from Rose for better or worse. And Rose has proven that he is a smarter offensive player than Carmelo Anthony.

Utter bullshit.

Melo and Lebron had some classic battles. One that comes to mind was the one in Cleveland during Bron's last season there.

Oh, please. Anthony made it passed the first round a grand total of one time in his career only to be smoked by Kobe Bryant in the WCF back in '09. Going to force a trade to play alongside Amare Stoudemire pretty much shows how smart of a player he is. Let's go play for the Knicks to play in a tempo that is completely not my style and to play with another guy who likes to shoot from the exact same spots on the floor as I do. And let's just forget the fact that the only decent rebounder for his position on that entire team is Landry Fields...

Yeah. Because Boozer is the weak link. Melo isn't the issue there. Boozer is.

Trading for Anthony would have meant that the Bulls would have been stuck with both of them. Two forwards who are very good rebounders but do not play ANY, and I mean any, team defense at all. And neither is a particularly good man-to-man defender either.


No WAI!

We saw how well that worked out when Miami was full strength.


I love how you are so damn concentrated on last season still when the point of getting Melo would have been to team him and Rose up for the better part of decade. It wasn't and still would not have been a one season proposition

But keep on with your absurd Noah love while he sits during crunch time during the most important games of the season.

The Bulls weren't at full strength and they nearly knotted the series at 2 games, and had a 12-pt lead with just over 3:00 to go. If the Heat were any weaker or if the Bulls were any stronger in terms of the health of Noah and Boozer then that could have easily ended up a 3-2 Bulls lead going into Game 6 in Miami.

I certainly wasn't opposed to getting Carmelo Anthony but hindsight is a funny thing because the Bulls really had no reason to believe that Miller and Haslem would miraculously show up for the first time all season and playoffs-long. That Anthony trade would have killed their chances to win that series no matter what. It is very arguable whether or not losing Deng and Noah could have eventually been worth it to gain Anthony because Deng has upside over Anthony on both offense and defense in terms of the things he brings to the table for the Bulls. Anthony likes to dribble into shots while Deng likes to shoot off of screens. Obviously, that could have changed if Anthony would have accepted coaching but when has he or any of the Denver Nuggets players accepted coaching? Not to mention, losing Noah, who is going to be a top 10 center in the league for at least another 10 years if he stays healthy. He could end up being better than every other center besides Dwight Howard if he developed a low-post game. The only Miami Heat player with any room to grow is LeBron James and who knows if he will ever become a force with his back to the basket.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Carmelo vs Lebron
Carmelo Anthony vs. LeBron James | Basketball-Reference.com



Carmelo vs Wade
Carmelo Anthony vs. Dwyane Wade | Basketball-Reference.com

Carmelo vs Kobe
Carmelo Anthony vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com

LOL at Rami not knowing what he is talking about(again). Melo is at or near career averages against all those guys and holds winning records against each of them except Kobe.

Regular season wins sure does mean a lot, right?

Oh wait... it doesn't.

Wade is far and beyond better as a player than Anthony. That is not even up for debate.

Bryant still is somewhat better than Anthony overall still. Despite his age and decline.

LeBron is so much better than Anthony, it is almost ridiculous.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Yeah because clearly as a Bulls fan we have never seen a multiple post offense work. Nor in a place like LA. Etc.


Is a double post/high low offense that outside of your ability when talking basketball?

Running a variant of the Flex/Motion offense with Boozer/Melo/Rose would have worked fine.

But that is apparently beyond you.

It was never only the matter of the offense. You could have Melo in the high-post on one side and have Boozer in the low-post on the other side (with Asik stinking it up in the middle). The problem is that that offense is not looking all that much, if any better than it would have been with Noah-Boozer-Deng. And the loss on defense would be undeniable. The loss on the boards would also hurt.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan were both post-up players who had point guard skills. The versatility of the Bulls and Lakers players is what allowed for that multi-option offense to work the way it did. Carlos Boozer (assuming he isn't hurt, as always) is a pure low-post scorer with not much meaningful passing skills and Carmelo Anthony has zero point guard ability. The Bulls' offense would be extremely easy to figure out because each player can only do a limited amount on offense.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Melo could drop 40 on the Heat routinely playing with a guy like Rose.

This is an absolute joke. There is no WAY Anthony could routinely drop 40 on the Heat with James guarding him. Miami was a great defensive team in their own right. Especially considering that Anthony routinely puts up low-percentage shots... the Heat defense would make life ROUGH for 'Melo. He would get his but he is not Mike.

And about your other point. Carmelo doesn't create for others. Yes, he can create for himself, and that would certainly help the Bulls offense. But you can't compare this to championship teams that have had guys who could do both. I'm talking MJ-SP, Rip-Billups, Ginobili-Parker. And even now with Wade-LeBron. These guys can get theirs AND feed off of each other (potentially in regard to Miami). Anthony and Rose would not be like that simply because Anthony is not a willing or very capable play-maker.

And guys who can create their own offense are pretty common in the league without having to go spend megabucks on a guy like Carmelo. The C position is the main position where you need a quality starter. And the Bulls have that.

 

[FirstTimer]

Noah is one of the best defensive players and rebounders in the league.

Balthering on about nothing.

Crunch time.

ECF.

On bench.

Quit trying to defend it.

And now the Heat will probably be forced to cut one of those players if the new CBA allows for it.

LOL at that.

Source that.

He is arguably the most natural scorer in the game

Ok.

but the problem is that he forces up terrible contested jumps-shots too often.

He's a career 46% shooter...32% from 3.

Seems like a hell of a lot of those shots are falling.



Denver isn't paying Melo to pass. Who should he dish to? Kenyon Martin, Birdman, or Nene?

LOL.

Melo is getting paid to be a high volume scorer. He does his job.

Oh, please.

What? You said Melo gets his shit pushed in. I showed that Melo has more than held his own against those guys.

Melo wanting to go to New York is besides the point.

Trading for Anthony would have meant that the Bulls would have been stuck with both of them.

LOL at being "stuck" with Carmelo fucking Anthony.

Yeah God forbid the Bulls are stuck with a borderline top 5 player for at least half a decade.

The Bulls weren't at full strength and they nearly knotted the series at 2 games, and had a 12-pt lead with just over 3:00 to go. If the Heat were any weaker or if the Bulls were any stronger in terms of the health of Noah and Boozer then that could have easily ended up a 3-2 Bulls lead going into Game 6 in Miami.

Except it didn't because our best player got ass raped by their best player.

If if if if if if if if...............

I certainly wasn't opposed to getting Carmelo Anthony

More utter bullshit.

. That Anthony trade would have killed their chances to win that series no matter what.

So. Fucking. What.

We lost the series anyways. So no thaving Melo or having Melo made no difference this season.

It amazes me you are still defending this awful viewpoint.

It is very arguable whether or not losing Deng and Noah could have eventually been worth it to gain Anthony

No it's not.

losing Noah, who is going to be a top 10 center in the league

Which means virtually nothing because Center is a fucking terrible position in the NBA now.

He could end up being better than every other center besides Dwight Howard if he developed a low-post game.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid.

Regular season wins sure does mean a lot, right?

Oh sorry. Wasn't aware it was possible for me to compare Carmelo Anthony to Wade and James in the playoffs since they play in another conference.

For the record. When you say Melo had his shi tpushed in against those guys what games were you using as an evaluation point? Playoffs?

Fucking hypocrit.

Just admit you spoke without having a clue(as usual) and ar enow trying to back out of it.

The rest of what you said has no point because I never said Anthony was better than any of them. I was simply refuting your idiotic assertion that Anthony had his shit pushed in by them..whenhe clearly hasn't

It was never only the matter of the offense. You could have Melo in the high-post on one side and have Boozer in the low-post on the other side (with Asik stinking it up in the middle). The problem is that that offense is not looking all that much, if any better than it would have been with Noah-Boozer-Deng.

Melo, Boozer, Asik/Taj/perhaps another grindy center>>Noah, Boozer, Deng on offense.


LOL at you back tracking on this.

ZOMG! Multiple posts on an offense?!?!?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Vocaroo | Record and send voice emails

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Source that.

NBA -- Most likely amnesty candidates - ESPN

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I'm confused. So when you say Melo has gotten owned by the actual stars of the league, does that include Luol Deng and Joakim Noah?

Word of advice...when Skip Bayliss would write a completely nonsensical column just to incite anger/response, the next day he would write a new column and act as if what he wrote yesterday never existed. I suggest that you do the same.

Vocaroo | Record and send voice emails

 

[FirstTimer]

NBA -- Most likely amnesty candidates - ESPN

You actually think the players would agree to that stipulation?

Hell the Union just decertified.

Oh noes the Heat would have to find another weird looking guy to shoot 3's!

Whatever will they do?!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You actually think the players would agree to that stipulation?

Hell the Union just decertified.

Oh noes the Heat would have to find another weird looking guy to shoot 3's!

Whatever will they do?!

Vocaroo | Record and send voice emails

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

These are awesome.:woot:

When you click on it, you have no idea how long it is. The one that was in response to my posting was literally 6 minutes in length. Even Jim Rome doesn't talk THAT long.

It started as being frustrated that my net would crap out and I'd lose every line of rebuttal I would make, but I think I actually prefer it like this.

 

[FirstTimer]

If you are going to leave voicemails quit stammering over yourself like a moron.

You make Lawerence Holmes look competant.

Plus as usual 99% of what you said is just rehashing the same shit I've already put down. Thankfully this was not left on my phone and cost me valuable minutes.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

If you are going to leave voicemails quit stammering over yourself like a moron.

You make Lawerence Holmes look competant.

It's not like I'm reading from a cue card but it's obvious you will stop short of nothing to make some sort of put down -_-