DMelt36
Bolland > You
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The moment you start throwing around your alleged real life credentials on the Internet is the moment you lose on the Internet.
Shantz My Pants
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My BeAPro in NHL 15 typically wins his fights against some heavy weights as well.
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Rex
Chief Blackcock
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Dion Phaneuf just did something way worse than what Carcillo did, but I guarantee there will be no suspension.
The Hawk
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My favorite teams
I think that he does fill a need and that need is nastiness. I have no particular love for the guy but every team in the NHL have a guy or two like this.
Pez68
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Phaneuf is a piece of shit. Can't fucking stand him. Should be suspended, but you're right. He probably won't be.
Rinaldo's hit on Letang last night was fucking awful too. He and Carcillo are cut from the same mold. He will most certainly be serving a lengthy suspension, especially given the comments he made after the game. A total fucking moron.
Variable
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When a player talks like Rinaldo did after that hit he gave, that should pretty much signal the end of his NHL career to his GM and every other GM in the league who sees that.
There was another instance with Downie's cross check which happened on the same night as Carcillo's. That was just as malicious and should've easily been a suspension but wasn't anything. But because the league gets these things wrong, it doesn't mean to keep getting it wrong and not discipline one guy just because some other guy got away with it. It's horrible the inconsistency, I agree, but they all should be suspensions, Carcillo's included. It's probably going to take another Moore-Bertuzzi type incident to really start getting changes.
There was another instance with Downie's cross check which happened on the same night as Carcillo's. That was just as malicious and should've easily been a suspension but wasn't anything. But because the league gets these things wrong, it doesn't mean to keep getting it wrong and not discipline one guy just because some other guy got away with it. It's horrible the inconsistency, I agree, but they all should be suspensions, Carcillo's included. It's probably going to take another Moore-Bertuzzi type incident to really start getting changes.
Pez68
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I agree completely. Rinaldo should be completely done. He had absolutely no remorse for the hit and actually seemed to be proud of it... That's also where the NHL fucks themselves. Total lack of consistency.
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He basically said what he did changed the game and I believe the implication was that his team may not have won that game if he had not made that hit.
And he went on to say the most important thing was that his team won.... now believe what you want but the dude shoulda at least been saying "Ya know I hope Letang is alright, the most important thing is that we are all safe out there on the ice" even if he didn't believe it.
Rinaldo deserves the fucking banhammer more for being an idiot than for the hit...
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[video=youtube;gaj99jDUk1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaj99jDUk1I[/video]
This is how you handle it.
This is how you handle it.
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Resulting from this:
[video=youtube;KoBXfD2oHRg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBXfD2oHRg[/video]
[video=youtube;KoBXfD2oHRg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBXfD2oHRg[/video]
Shantz My Pants
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Every sport has guys who play over the line, and they end up getting dealt with by the higher ups with fines and suspensions.
There is a reason why teams still take those guys, mainly because they are cheap and more importantly "team first". I've never seen a guy like Carcillo, Rinaldo, Avery whoever take a shift off. They play their role and do it with as much effort as possible.
What does Carcillo bring? He's tenacious on the forecheck, plays a physical game, actually has a bit of skill, isn't a liability on defense, and is willing to drop the gloves. Again, sure he has played over the line at times, but with his style that is going to happen. With him being on the 4th line, I think he's effective with his role and style and also is a very cheap contract to have.
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There is a reason why teams still take those guys, mainly because they are cheap and more importantly "team first". I've never seen a guy like Carcillo, Rinaldo, Avery whoever take a shift off. They play their role and do it with as much effort as possible.
What does Carcillo bring? He's tenacious on the forecheck, plays a physical game, actually has a bit of skill, isn't a liability on defense, and is willing to drop the gloves. Again, sure he has played over the line at times, but with his style that is going to happen. With him being on the 4th line, I think he's effective with his role and style and also is a very cheap contract to have.
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Shantz My Pants
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Part of me feels like Asham shouldn't have even apologized. When it happened, Beagle actually was the one to challenge Asham and Beags was running his mouth. Asham shut him up real quick.
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Pez68
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Yeah, no shit, but at the end of the day this is a game. When guys get hurt, there is an appropriate and inappropriate response. Rinaldo is a fucking moron. Even if the other guy starts it, most players don't want to see their opponents seriously hurt. Some, just don't give a ****.
Nobody is arguing that Carcillo doesn't contribute. That's actually the biggest problem I have with guys like him. He doesn't NEED to do stupid shit like that to be effective. Nothing you mentioned about his contributions has anything to do with constantly crossing the line and hurting guys, or playing recklessly. That's not how he helps a team, as you yourself said. There's just a disconnect with guys like Carcillo and Rinaldo when they are on the ice. They have self control issues and let their emotion get the best of them more often than not. And, in the case of Rinaldo at least, are a few eggs short of a dozen. To show no remorse for injuring a guy with a clear cut, illegal, and completely unnecessary hit, tells me all I need to know. He feels like he did his job by injuring Letang and doing what he did. He has no regrets.
Every sport has guys like this, and that's unfortunate. Hockey is better without them, and there are plenty of guys willing to work their balls off and be just as effective in that role. The Hawks don't miss Carcillo at all when he's out of the lineup, because it isn't talent that makes him effective, it's effort. Effort they can get from other guys that aren't going to do the stupid shit he does and be a constant menace to the health of other players.
At one point you needed guys like this as a deterrent because the game was different. Star players would be targeted unless you knew there were guys on the other team who would come right back and do the same to your stars. The league has stepped in and is at least attempting to get that type of play out of the game, and with it, guys like Carcillo are no longer necessary. They're only necessary because of each other at this point. My guess is the Hawks brought Carcillo back because Cooke is in the division, and why not? He costs them nothing. Worst case, you just scratch or waive him. The risk is minimal and maybe it works out. Let's just hope it doesn't get one of the big guns seriously hurt when they play the Jets, and they are looking for retribution.
Nobody is arguing that Carcillo doesn't contribute. That's actually the biggest problem I have with guys like him. He doesn't NEED to do stupid shit like that to be effective. Nothing you mentioned about his contributions has anything to do with constantly crossing the line and hurting guys, or playing recklessly. That's not how he helps a team, as you yourself said. There's just a disconnect with guys like Carcillo and Rinaldo when they are on the ice. They have self control issues and let their emotion get the best of them more often than not. And, in the case of Rinaldo at least, are a few eggs short of a dozen. To show no remorse for injuring a guy with a clear cut, illegal, and completely unnecessary hit, tells me all I need to know. He feels like he did his job by injuring Letang and doing what he did. He has no regrets.
Every sport has guys like this, and that's unfortunate. Hockey is better without them, and there are plenty of guys willing to work their balls off and be just as effective in that role. The Hawks don't miss Carcillo at all when he's out of the lineup, because it isn't talent that makes him effective, it's effort. Effort they can get from other guys that aren't going to do the stupid shit he does and be a constant menace to the health of other players.
At one point you needed guys like this as a deterrent because the game was different. Star players would be targeted unless you knew there were guys on the other team who would come right back and do the same to your stars. The league has stepped in and is at least attempting to get that type of play out of the game, and with it, guys like Carcillo are no longer necessary. They're only necessary because of each other at this point. My guess is the Hawks brought Carcillo back because Cooke is in the division, and why not? He costs them nothing. Worst case, you just scratch or waive him. The risk is minimal and maybe it works out. Let's just hope it doesn't get one of the big guns seriously hurt when they play the Jets, and they are looking for retribution.
Shantz My Pants
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The Hawks didn't bring Carcillo in because of Cooke. The Hawks brought Carcillo back because he's making league minimum and fills a spot on the 4th line that we would of had to put in a rookie player that Q doesn't trust.
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Variable
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I'll take players like Ben Smith over players like Carcillo. He's everything Carcillo is on his best day and more, minus never putting your team in the kinds of spots that Carcillo does with his stupidity. And every team has guys similar to him in their system, cheap effective players just waiting for a chance. It's simply a matter of choice.
The league definitely has it's issues with their supplemental discipline but in the end these sorts of problems can be drastically reduced by simply not giving these assholes who routinely pull this garbage third, fourth and fifth chances at a spot on a NHL team. Stop giving these guys jobs, stop signing them, and you'll see these sort of problems be cut down without anything the league itself has to do. For every team that gives a Carcillo, Cooke, Torres yet another chance to only prove that they are the same douchebag player, I guarantee you they have better options already in their system just waiting for their first chance. We're starting to see that happen now.
The league definitely has it's issues with their supplemental discipline but in the end these sorts of problems can be drastically reduced by simply not giving these assholes who routinely pull this garbage third, fourth and fifth chances at a spot on a NHL team. Stop giving these guys jobs, stop signing them, and you'll see these sort of problems be cut down without anything the league itself has to do. For every team that gives a Carcillo, Cooke, Torres yet another chance to only prove that they are the same douchebag player, I guarantee you they have better options already in their system just waiting for their first chance. We're starting to see that happen now.
Rex
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so are we just not acknowledging the whole Pez fighting Carcillo thing? I just want to be sure.
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I read that Rinaldo could be suspended anywhere from 6 to 10 games. After his comments, I expect him to get 10. What an idiot!
Variable
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He should be expecting a demotion to the AHL but that won't happen because it's Philly.
Shantz My Pants
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Numerous people made comments about it, he just deflected them and moved on like nobody noticed.
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Shantz My Pants
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We already know you don't care for the physicality in hockey. Problem is if what you're saying is true, teams would be taking advantage of that already.
Who in the Hawks system could fill Carcillo's role with out hurting their development? McNeill they are trying to develop into a top 9 forward, and he's playing top line minutes in Rockford (plus his cap hit would be 925K), Ryan Hartman, Dandault and Ross are all physical players but they as well are being groomed for top 6-9 forward spots, not 4th line 8 minutes a night roles. Plus, they all make more than Carcillo.
So again, who fills that roster spot and doesn't hurt their development and is at the same level contract and do not say Peter Regin as he brings absolutely nothing besides speed.
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