ClydeLee
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Brandon Mashinster
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Talking about players that could bring what Gorilla Salad does without hurting their development?
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Ahhh... my bad... can we bring bad beach....
Variable
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I don't have a problem with physicality in hockey, I have a problem with players like Carcillo in hockey. The Hawks don't need players like him. His "role", what he brings, doesn't need to be filled by anyone. He's nothing but a detriment. He shouldn't even be in the league at this point. What is this now, his fucking eleventh suspension or fine in his career? How many more chances do you want to give this asshole?
Teams are taking advantage of that, there are less and less guys like Carcillo in the league as the years go by. And please stop playing dumb. The Hawks' fourth line isn't the traditional fourth line, it's essentially their shut down line. Anybody who plays on that line has an important role, they aren't playing throwaway time, less than 10 minutes a game. Carcillo is because you can't trust the ****** out there. Kruger and Smith seemed to have developed along just fine over the last few years now playing on that line.
And it's not like a player like say Garret Ross (who makes a whopping 60k more than Carcillo) would be stuck forever on the 4th line here if he were to be called up in place of Carcillo, not with the roster changes that are gonna have to happen in the coming year and beyond. Gotta start somewhere. Playing on the shut down line for one of best teams in hockey certainly isn't the worst place for a young player to start his career and development in the NHL.
Rex
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yeah, The Blackhawks have never had tough players on the fourth line. Eager, Mayers, Carcillo, Scott, Bollig, Koci, etc.
Variable
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...where did I say they never had them? And I wouldn't really put those other players in the same mold as Carcillo.
Rex
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"The Hawks' fourth line isn't the traditional fourth line, it's essentially their shut down line. Anybody who plays on that line has an important role, they aren't playing throwaway time, less than 10 minutes a game."
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I am still laughing....that is just bat shit crazy:lmao:
Variable
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Right.
....where did I say they never had them? I like how you cut off my quoute right before I said except for Carcillo because he couldn't be trusted, sometimes with not even more than 5 mintues a game, several times even less time than that. Same old bullshit.
....where did I say they never had them? I like how you cut off my quoute right before I said except for Carcillo because he couldn't be trusted, sometimes with not even more than 5 mintues a game, several times even less time than that. Same old bullshit.
2323
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A couple of reasons. 1) if he's on your team, he's far less likely to injure your players. 2) The suspensions in the NHL are a joke. The players union has effectively neutered the NHL in terms of dropping the hammer on dirty players. So, effectively, you need one of these guys yourself to offset the Matt Cookes that are out there.
Let's say the Blackhawks face Minnesota in the playoffs. Do you think suspensions are a deterrent? Last year Matt Cooke injured Tyson Barrie on a dirty play and was only suspended for 7 games. Meanwhile, Barrie was done for the playoffs. It completely decided that series. So imagine what someone like Matt Cooke might do to Duncan Keith. The suspensions aren't a deterrent and after Minnesota made out last year on his cheap shot, he's only going to be more emboldened. However, if Chicago has their own guy like that, Minnesota knows there's someone who can do the same thing to Parise or Suter.
Effectively, he's a hedge against dirty players. And, sadly, it's probably a shrewd decision given the ineffectiveness of the penalty system in place. The Blackhawks have too high of aspirations and too many great players that make a lot of money to leave themselves vulnerable.
Variable
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So why didn't John Scott deter Torres from nearly ending Hossa's career?
DMelt36
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QFT
Brandon Bollig was on the fucking ice when that happened.
This is a myth.
Shantz My Pants
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Yep, Kruger who was a pretty good scoring forward in Sweden and Rockford really developed well on the 4th line here. Shit, he's still on the 4th line and will most likely only be a 4th liner/ PKer. Could you imagine if they would of left him to develop another year or two in Rockford as a 2nd line center with top line minutes? I mean, I'm happy for what he does on this team, but he might of had more potential had we kept him playing top 6 minutes in the AHL then say bottom minutes in the NHL. If it were so easy to throw a young player on the bottom lines and let them develop there then why did Morin and Pirri get shipped out instead of playing bottom line roles?
A guy like Carcillo on the 4th line allows guys like Ross, McNeill, Dandault, Hartman the opportunity to develop their offensive side of the game in the AHL instead of getting stuck in a position that won't let them further that development here. Like hell they will get PP minutes here in Chicago, and more than likely won't get PK minutes either. We will have some turnover soon at the forward position, especially with the contracts that will be kicking in and those who are taking up too much space. Would you rather a guy like McNeill or Dandault keep developing so they can take a Bickell, Sharp, Hossa spot in the top 9 or bring them up, force them to play just defensively, and bring no offensive skill in the future?
Trust me, if Bowman or Q really thought it would be beneficial to have them up here, they would. Instead, their focusing not only now, but in the future.
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2323
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The playoffs are structured differently now and there's a much greater likelihood the Blackhawks will have to play Minnesota specifically now than there was they would play Torres at the time. Also, cooke has a much longer rap sheet going into any would be series with Chicago than Torres did going into that series that year.
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Wow, 8 pages about the pros/cons of Gorilla Salad
Shantz My Pants
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More like 8 badges of 2 guys bitching and everyone else thinking it's not as big of a deal as their making it out to be.
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Or talking about Crawford
Variable
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For one season that would've killed their development? Because that's all it would've been like I mentioned (as did you) with the roster turnover coming. I guess Tampa Bay might as well close the book on Drouin because that's where they've had him playing most of this season. And the Hawks wouldn't have necessarily even had to call any of them up, there are plenty of other options in free agency for guys just looking for an opportunity to play for cheap that aren't an asshole like Carcillo.
And don't even bother bringing up Morin or Pirri. Personnel decisions have never been Q's strong suit. Never. It took him until the WCF against LA last year to realize maybe he shouldn't have a boat anchor in Handzus weighing down Kane's line and that he couldn't trust Bollig to play more than 6 minutes or so. Anyone on the team would've been a better option than Zus on the second line. Any. One. Shaw proved that and he isn't even a good center, as did Smith. He put Regin there for one fucking play during OT against the Wild and it ended up being the difference on the game winning goal and Regin is just....a guy in the NHL who can skate.
These aren't "just fourth liners" or "just Carcillo" we're talking about. It's about having 4 strong lines. That comes into play heavily when you start going up against equally deep teams like LA in the playoffs. That was the difference in that series. You had the war of attrition between Toews' line and Kopitar's and then basically only Kane's line left to lean on. The bottom six was a mess of a bad and dumb Versteeg, a hurt Sharp, a done Handzus, Bollig who was pulling down 6 and a half minutes a game and Kruger and Smith.
Variable
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What does any of that have to do with what I said? Torres almost took Seabrook's head off in the playoffs the year before he almost took Hossa's head off. The Hawks knew what he was about. And it didn't matter. Players like Carcillo, Bollig, Scott don't deter anything. If anything, there's a better argument in that they escalate things. That's why Q has had to bench Carcillo a lot of the time.
Players like Torres, Carcillo, Cooke, simply do not care. It doesn't matter what you do to them, it doesn't matter what star player(s) is on their team (in Cooke's case the single biggest star while he was in Pitt) that could be targeted, nothing stops them from being what they are. Look at what happened with Rinaldo and how he acted after his hit on Letang. That's how they are. They don't give a ****.