Why is baseball discussion revolve around acronyms?

[Captain Obvious]

All left fielders are bad fielders. Except for Crawford.

Couldn't agree more. However, for LFers, I'll take Soriano all day.

 

[Jntg4]

So what actually happens mean absolutely nothing, right.

 

[Captain Obvious]

So what actually happens mean absolutely nothing, right.

No, but when you just watch a game, you don't notice everything. That's the problem with the human eye, you don't notice everything. Another thing with the human element, you really only remember certain things... like really bad things and really good things. But with baseball 99% of the time, a play isn't really bad or really good. It's just meh.

 

[Jntg4]

No, but when you just watch a game, you don't notice everything. That's the problem with the human eye, you don't notice everything. Another thing with the human element, you really only remember certain things... like really bad things and really good things. But with baseball 99% of the time, a play isn't really bad or really good. It's just meh.

Some formula some mathematician made up to calculate how good a player is comes out of nowhere. Someone rights down a formula they think is good and uses it.

If you can show how UZR's calculation shows how good a player is in reality, I'll talk. how does the formula incorporate what plays they are capable of making, how a CF ends up catching a ball in the LF's zone, etc. There is just too much excluded to rely solely on saber. Use basic stats in conjunction with with saber to get an accurate reading.

UZR isn't perfect y'know.

Oh, and the point of baseball is to watch it, not to rely on everything some mathematician calculates.

 

[DewsSox79]

the point is, soriano is not a good defender, do not need sabre UZR to tell me he is good. but whatever.

 

[Captain Obvious]

the point is, soriano is not a good defender, do not need sabre UZR to tell me he is good. but whatever.

I've never once said he is a good defender for an OFer... but as Poods said, all LFers sans Crawford suck. So how do we know who is good for LF and who isn't? Soriano is good for LF... it's not saying a lot, but there are so really really bad LFers out there.

 

[DewsSox79]

I've never once said he is a good defender for an OFer... but as Poods said, all LFers sans Crawford suck. So how do we know who is good for LF and who isn't? Soriano is good for LF... it's not saying a lot, but there are so really really bad LFers out there.

yes there are.

 

[DewsSox79]

give me brett gardner and i would be happy

 

[Captain Obvious]

Some formula some mathematician made up to calculate how good a player is comes out of nowhere. Someone rights down a formula they think is good and uses it.

If you can show how UZR's calculation shows how good a player is in reality, I'll talk. how does the formula incorporate what plays they are capable of making, how a CF ends up catching a ball in the LF's zone, etc. There is just too much excluded to rely solely on saber. Use basic stats in conjunction with with saber to get an accurate reading.

UZR isn't perfect y'know.

Oh, and the point of baseball is to watch it, not to rely on everything some mathematician calculates.

Sure, anyone can make a formula, but UZR isn't just some formula some guy came up with(just wondering... you do realize that all stats are formulas, right?).

I don't understand what you are asking... how it can show how good they are in reality? What do you mean?

I have not said that we should just use UZR, nor have I said it is perfect.... but there are basically no defensive stats that are "basic." Unless you are referring to FP, which is just as good as BA. In fact, I would say it is probably worse.

No, the point of baseball is to score more runs than the other team.

 

[Captain Obvious]

give me brett gardner and i would be happy

I can see. I wouldn't argue with that. However, Soriano is still in the top 3 or 5, I'd say. He's not that bad... for a LFer.

 

[DewsSox79]

juan pierre 13.4 UZR and a 13.4 UZR 150 2010
juan pierre 4.1 UZR and a 9.4 UZR 150 2009
juan pierre -3.1 UZR and a -6.4 UZR 150 2008

yet we all know he sucks as sox fans in the outfield

soriano 5.2 UZR 6.3 UZR 150 2010
soriano -3.1 UZR -5.2 UZR 150 2009
soriano 15.9 UZR 25.5 UZR 150 2008

I guess we only are looking at 2008 to judge soriano? no?

 

[AddisonStation]

I just read a really good Q&A kind of thread about UZR. The thread creator was a devout UZR hater but by the end he pulled a 180'. I suggest reading it. I learned a lot and it strengthened my faith in UZR.... Not as gospel but definitely as something to consider when looking at defensive stats.

Here's the link UZR: What's the deal with this stat?

 

[AddisonStation]

juan pierre 13.4 UZR and a 13.4 UZR 150 2010
juan pierre 4.1 UZR and a 9.4 UZR 150 2009
juan pierre -3.1 UZR and a -6.4 UZR 150 2008

yet we all know he sucks as sox fans in the outfield

soriano 5.2 UZR 6.3 UZR 150 2010
soriano -3.1 UZR -5.2 UZR 150 2009
soriano 15.9 UZR 25.5 UZR 150 2008

I guess we only are looking at 2008 to judge soriano? no?

An "expert" explains why there can be disparity season to season in the link I just posted. Time consuming, yet interesting.

 

[DewsSox79]

I just read a really good Q&A kind of thread about UZR. The thread creator was a devout UZR hater but by the end he pulled a 180'. I suggest reading it. I learned a lot and it strengthened my faith in UZR.... Not as gospel but definitely as something to consider when looking at defensive stats.

Here's the link UZR: What's the deal with this stat?

yeah read it a while ago.


now with all that said, pierre is a -2, -1.2, and a -2 for his arm. good stuff right there, when we know he is much worse than what those numbers suggest from our left fielder. but whatever.

 

[AddisonStation]

yeah read it a while ago.


now with all that said, pierre is a -2, -1.2, and a -2 for his arm. good stuff right there, when we know he is much worse than what those numbers suggest from our left fielder. but whatever.

-2 is good? I'm confused. This shit it scrambling my brain.

 

[Captain Obvious]

juan pierre 13.4 UZR and a 13.4 UZR 150 2010
juan pierre 4.1 UZR and a 9.4 UZR 150 2009
juan pierre -3.1 UZR and a -6.4 UZR 150 2008

yet we all know he sucks as sox fans in the outfield

soriano 5.2 UZR 6.3 UZR 150 2010
soriano -3.1 UZR -5.2 UZR 150 2009
soriano 15.9 UZR 25.5 UZR 150 2008

I guess we only are looking at 2008 to judge soriano? no?

I don't think you are giving Pierre enough credit as a LFer. Keep in mind LFers suck. Sure, as a CFer he sucks, but then you put him with other shitty LFers and he becomes decent. No doubt he has an awful arm... for CF. But when he plays LF, everything changes.

No, no one is looking at just 2008 to judge Soriano. Take the average or the sum. That's what we're basing it off of.

 

[Mackman]

I don't think you are giving Pierre enough credit as a LFer. Keep in mind LFers suck. Sure, as a CFer he sucks, but then you put him with other shitty LFers and he becomes decent. No doubt he has an awful arm... for CF. But when he plays LF, everything changes.

No, no one is looking at just 2008 to judge Soriano. Take the average or the sum. That's what we're basing it off of.

These so called "stats" don't tell the story at all. There is a reason that when the Cubs have a late lead, that Soriano doesn't play the field. He is not an asset in the field he is a liability. Every time there is a fly ball hit to him, I hold my breath. As for Juan Pierre, the White Sox did not sign him for his defense. People run all the time. And why not? My grandma could go from first to third with a ball hit directly at him, and she is dead.

 

[tbo41fan]

These so called "stats" don't tell the story at all. There is a reason that when the Cubs have a late lead, that Soriano doesn't play the field. He is not an asset in the field he is a liability. Every time there is a fly ball hit to him, I hold my breath. As for Juan Pierre, the White Sox did not sign him for his defense. People run all the time. And why not? My grandma could go from first to third with a ball hit directly at him, and she is dead.

That is Bob Brenly-esque

:lmao:

 

[Captain Obvious]

These so called "stats" don't tell the story at all. There is a reason that when the Cubs have a late lead, that Soriano doesn't play the field. He is not an asset in the field he is a liability. Every time there is a fly ball hit to him, I hold my breath. As for Juan Pierre, the White Sox did not sign him for his defense. People run all the time. And why not? My grandma could go from first to third with a ball hit directly at him, and she is dead.

What are you basing him being a liability off of? What you've seen? I've seen Derek Jeter make some really cool plays at SS, I guess that makes him a great defender, huh? Whether you or any holds their breath or not is irrelevant.

That's because the White Sox didn't sign Pierre. They traded for him. That's not even remotely close to true. You are totally assuming things and that's just not how to evaluate a player.

 

[tbo41fan]

What are you basing him being a liability off of? What you've seen? I've seen Derek Jeter make some really cool plays at SS, I guess that makes him a great defender, huh? Whether you or any holds their breath or not is irrelevant.

That's because the White Sox didn't sign Pierre. They traded for him. That's not even remotely close to true. You are totally assuming things and that's just not how to evaluate a player.

Ive seen managers, people who know baseball better than people on a message board pull him because he is a defensive liability.