Why WAR sucks

[FirstTimer]

Just to reiterate, KB thinks WAR sucks because Rizzo and ACraig are close together right now despite the final replacement levels not being finalized yet and Craig already trending towards being a full one win better anyways.

Cumulative metrics are HARD!

 

[JosMin]

Only I have repeatedly stated simply and clearly that this had nothing to do with Rizzo or the Cubs.

Yet you still make this claim that is 100% contradictory to what I have actually said and then insult me for something I haven't even done.

So it's 100% coincidental that you used Rizzo as an example?

 

[KBisBack!]

You in reference to defensive metrics

Which they aren't as a part of the WAR statistic.

No. It's clear you don't understand it.

3-5 year defensive metrics aren't used as a part of WAR which that quote was a reference to.

Not that you would deliberately use a comment completely out of context to further your trolling.

 

[KBisBack!]

So it's 100% coincidental that you used Rizzo as an example?

Yep.

If I had wanted to start a thread bashing Rizzo I would have started a thread to bash Anthony Rizzo.

Simple enough.

I am not shy about speaking my mind plainly and clearly.

But that is too hard for the Troll Patrol to figure out as they have once again been allowed to shit all over another thread unchecked.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yep.

If I had wanted to start a thread bashing Rizzo I would have started a thread to bash Anthony Rizzo.

Simple enough.

I am not shy about speaking my mind plainly and clearly.

But that is too hard for the Troll Patrol to figure out as they have once again been allowed to shit all over another thread unchecked.

Disagree.

 

[JosMin]

Yep.

If I had wanted to start a thread bashing Rizzo I would have started a thread to bash Anthony Rizzo.

Simple enough.

I am not shy about speaking my mind plainly and clearly.

But that is too hard for the Troll Patrol to figure out as they have once again been allowed to shit all over another thread unchecked.

Oh, so that's why you just went into the Rizzo thread, where people were making solid points about his pitch selection and pitching sequence that gives him problems, and you throw out young players who have never once been compared to Rizzo by anyone on this board, for the simple fact that you wanted to smear your dick on everything?

Cool, got it. Keep up the good work.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Or he just took another opportunity to try and take another shot at Rizzo using a topic (WAR) that he saw being discussed on another thread.

AssClown

AssClown is a personal attack that shouldn't stand...particularly as it violates rule #6.

 

[Parade_Rain]

What if "AssClown" is his nickname and was his way of signing off on his posting?

Semantics.

Troll on.

Well, if that was the case, it would be pretty funny :lol:. Since there is already another post in the thread by that very poster using that same word in a sentence clearly directed at KB that makes your "what if" a "didn't happen".

 

[MRubio52]

My issue with this thread was that the OP's process was bad even though I somewhat agree that WAR isn't the be-all end-all. I'm not a fan of bad process and this was a bad process.

Throwing out a metric based on a super small sample is folly.

 

[mountsalami]

My issue with this thread was that the OP's process was bad even though I somewhat agree that WAR isn't the be-all end-all. I'm not a fan of bad process and this was a bad process.

Throwing out a metric based on a super small sample is folly.

My issue with this thread is that OP gave just one example of many that show the metric to be garbage and a waste of time.

It is a folly that someone as intelligent as you and many others displayed here, would need a much larger "sample size" given by the OP.

It's funny how the "braintrust" claim they "understand it".

BTW. I do like the fact that KB used Rizzo's statistics as an example. The mindless lemmings came out of their hospital beds over that one.

 

[MRubio52]

My issue with this thread is that OP gave just one example of many that show the metric to be garbage and a waste of time.

It is a folly that someone as intelligent as you and many others displayed here, would need a much larger "sample size" given by the OP.

It's funny how the "braintrust" claim they "understand it".

BTW. I do like the fact that KB used Rizzo's statistics as an example. The mindless lemmings came out of their hospital beds over that one.

I don't think the F/O uses WAR at all, I'm fairly sure they have their own proprietary numbers. In fact the F/O has placed an emphasis on scouting more than the numbers side early on IMO, that's something that is consistently getting missed here.

Also it's not useless, it's just that it's uses are limited. It's a better measure of talent than BA but it still needs refinement.

 

[mountsalami]

I don't think the F/O uses WAR at all, I'm fairly sure they have their own proprietary numbers. In fact the F/O has placed an emphasis on scouting more than the numbers side early on IMO, that's something that is consistently getting missed here.

Also it's not useless, it's just that it's uses are limited. It's a better measure of talent than BA but it still needs refinement.

It appears that they use neither their scouting or even watch baseball with many of the moves made. So they might use WAR as their benchmark.

 

[MRubio52]

It appears that they use neither their scouting or even watch baseball with many of the moves made. So they might use WAR as their benchmark.

And here's my issue with you, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, be it from MSM, talent evaluators, other F/O's being quoted in the media, scouts and former scouts, you will consistently judge this F/O in small samples rather than look at the full picture.

Travis Wood was a good trade. Feldman was a good move as well and he's turned into a competent reliever and a starter with potential. Nate Schierholtz was a good signing.

There's an entire segment of the baseball world that aren't Cubs fans and they've been praising the moves the FO has made, so I mean really where's you're evidence?

 

[mountsalami]

I have seen NOTHING added to the ML roster that provides the long term sustained success that has been preached.

Travis Wood , Feldman ,and Scheitholez don't cut it.

There's an entire segment of the baseball world that aren't Cubs fans and they've been praising the moves the FO has made, so I mean really where's you're evidence?

And where's this entire segment getting their information from. Sounds like they have bought some stock options. I'm sure their adversaries are clammering at the great job Theo is doing while they are continually getting their asses kicked within the division ?

 

[JosMin]

I have seen NOTHING added to the ML roster that provides the long term sustained success that has been preached.

Travis Wood , Feldman ,and Scheitholez don't cut it.

Why don't those guys cut it? Because that's your opinion? Travis Wood's ERA is less than 3 and he's tied for the major league lead in quality starts. If that's not what you ask for out of your starting rotation, then I've had a total misunderstanding of what a starting pitcher is supposed to do in the 27 years I've been alive.

Schierholtz is having a career year, and as Roobz alluded to, we turned Feldman into a starter with potential and salary control and a relief pitcher who hadn't given up a run for the Cubs until last night.

 

[mountsalami]

Why don't those guys cut it? Because that's your opinion? Travis Wood's ERA is less than 3 and he's tied for the major league lead in quality starts. If that's not what you ask for out of your starting rotation, then I've had a total misunderstanding of what a starting pitcher is supposed to do in the 27 years I've been alive.

Schierholtz is having a career year, and as Roobz alluded to, we turned Feldman into a starter with potential and salary control and a relief pitcher who hadn't given up a run for the Cubs until last night.

Silly me for not noticing that Boy blunder may have gotten one right out of a hundred. There's twenty four left to go and only three years remaining on his contract.

 

[The Bandit]

Silly me for not noticing that Boy blunder may have gotten one right out of a hundred. There's twenty four left to go and only three years remaining on his contract.

Jake Arrieta
Travis Wood
Strop
Schierholtz
Jackson
Villanueva
Navarro
Dejesus
Valbuena
and a few not that worthy of a mention say hello on the major league squad.
That's not even mentioning the minors.

 

[KBisBack!]

and a few not that worthy of a mention say hello on the major league squad.

10 games below .500 and the 7th worst record in baseball say hello.

No wonder Rizzo gets so much praise around here when people think that mediocrity and well below average levels of success are worthwhile achievements.

 

[Parade_Rain]

10 games below .500 and the 7th worst record in baseball say hello.

No wonder Rizzo gets so much praise around here when people think that mediocrity and well below average levels of success are worthwhile achievements.

If this was at the end of September, 10 games below .500 and 7th worse record would be improvement over last season. Whether or not that is real progress is where the debate lies.

 

[FirstTimer]

My issue with this thread was that the OP's process was bad even though I somewhat agree that WAR isn't the be-all end-all. I'm not a fan of bad process and this was a bad process.

Throwing out a metric based on a super small sample is folly.

Agreed