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beckdawg

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@chibears55

Not looking like much in the way of CF who might actually get rule 5 drafted. MLB.com has a top 10 available and Teoscar Hernandez is the only OF though he can play CF. He's a godo combo of power and speed. Last year in 514 PAs in AA he had 33 SB and 17 HR. The problem is he strikes out a ton. It was 25.7% at A+, 36.7% his first go around in AA and 24.5% his second round.

Edit: or I can't read. Dwight Smith is also an OF but he's a LF.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157830358/top-10-prospects-available-in-rule-5-draft

Incidentally, Corey Black is on this list.
 

Boobaby1

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It has been rumored that the asking price for Teheran or Miller from the Braves to the Giants was either Duffy or Panik.

So if true, it leads you to believe where the starting point would be for the Cubs.
 

Parade_Rain

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Would that mean that Soler wouldn't be the first choice, as they are looking at a 2B and 3B? So Castro or Baez?
 

beckdawg

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Would that mean that Soler wouldn't be the first choice, as they are looking at a 2B and 3B? So Castro or Baez?

If I'm Atlanta, I think I probably want Baez more than Castro because Castro is more a "now" play and Baez probably has higher upside but might take awhile to fully develop. And honestly, that's not too crazy a price IMO. Probably need more parts from both sides to make it fully work but it's probably a fair start.

I was digging into some stats last night and all things being equal, I sort of think Salazar may be the best name available.
 

CSF77

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http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cub...ision-pursue-david-price-or-jordan-zimmermann

Jesse Rogers, ESPN Staff Writer
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Jordan Zimmermann or David Price? The Chicago Cubs might be asking that question of themselves considering the price tag presumably attached to each player will be significantly different and will play a part in what the team can do the rest of the offseason.

Here are the pros and cons to signing each player:

David Price

Pros: Price is an established workhorse, who has amassed a .650 winning percentage while averaging more than 31 starts per season since 2010.

He also played for Joe Maddon and should know exactly what to expect coming over from the American League, where he’s been to the playoffs six times. The Cubs have had success specifically with former American League East pitchers, as the bottom of National League lineups simply aren’t as dangerous as their AL counterparts.

Price’s affinity to have a good time at his job would fit in nicely with the Cubs’ current vibe, and he’s a proven winner.

Cons: Price’s durability was nice for the teams who have employed him in the past, but the 1,500-plus career innings Price has thrown between the regular season and playoffs is bound to catch up with him at some point during his next deal.

Even if the Cy Young runner-up comes to Chicago at a bit of a discount, the price tag -- think $200 million total and $25 million-$30 million per season -- undoubtedly would hamper future potential moves.

And then there’s that 2-7 postseason record. That in itself shouldn’t scare the Cubs off entirely, but you’d hate to spend all that money and not get bang for your buck at the most important time of the year.

Jordan Zimmermann

Pros: Zimmermann is a bulldog of a competitor with Midwestern roots that seemingly would make him a good fit in the Cubs’ clubhouse. He also has been durable with relatively low mileage on his arm. Since returning as a full-time starter from Tommy John surgery in 2009, Zimmermann has made at least 32 starts in each of the past four seasons, but overall he has thrown only 1,094 innings, giving him the same vibe Jeff Samardzija possesses: a veteran pitcher with a young arm.

He’s also a control freak on the mound, having never walked more than 43 batters in a season, including allowing just 39 in 201 innings last season. He also led the league in fewest walks per nine innings in 2014.

As for his high home run total last season, according to ESPN Stats & Information, Zimmermann ranked 55th of 58 pitchers in terms of home run distance (minimum 20 home runs given up) so it’s quite possible a few of those long balls won’t go over the fence next season.

And finally, Zimmermann is likely to cost about half as much as Price, which would leave the Cubs more money for other moves.

Cons: No matter how you spin it, 24 balls left the park off of Zimmermann in 2015, 11th-most in the National League. Hitters clearly have squared him up more during the past two seasons, as he had more hits allowed (204) than innings pitched this year. That coincides with an increase in line drives allowed (30 percent) during the past two years after previously hovering around 23 percent.

Meanwhile, there have been some instances of guys who had Tommy John surgery slowing down sooner than other pitchers years after recovery. So, like Price, there could be issues later in the contract.
 

CSF77

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Makes me think the most likely scenario is them signing Shark. He is far more likely to stay strong over the duration of his deal. Other 2 have major concerns going on for paying 100 Mil +
 

Parade_Rain

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Of you can afford it would you sign both Price and Shark? Obviously that leaves little wiggle room to get a need filled at CF.
 

TL1961

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It has been rumored that the asking price for Teheran or Miller from the Braves to the Giants was either Duffy or Panik.

So if true, it leads you to believe where the starting point would be for the Cubs.

We don't have Duffy or Panik. :)

Braves gave up one year of Heyward, and now think they're going to get a rookie of the year candidate with 6 years control?

If that's their expectation, tell them to take a hike. Lots of "free" pitchers out there.....cost no prospects, that is.
 

Boobaby1

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We don't have Duffy or Panik. :)

Braves gave up one year of Heyward, and now think they're going to get a rookie of the year candidate with 6 years control?

If that's their expectation, tell them to take a hike. Lots of "free" pitchers out there.....cost no prospects, that is.

They, as well as the Indians are said to like Soler. The point I was making was to give a player that has some kind of track record. In my opinion, Baez doesn't have that.

Bryant, Russell, and Schwarber are probably not on the table, so if you do the math, it would appear to be Soler IF a trade were to go down.
 

chibears55

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http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cub...ision-pursue-david-price-or-jordan-zimmermann

Jesse Rogers, ESPN Staff Writer
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Jordan Zimmermann or David Price? The Chicago Cubs might be asking that question of themselves considering the price tag presumably attached to each player will be significantly different and will play a part in what the team can do the rest of the offseason.

Here are the pros and cons to signing each player:

David Price

Pros: Price is an established workhorse, who has amassed a .650 winning percentage while averaging more than 31 starts per season since 2010.

He also played for Joe Maddon and should know exactly what to expect coming over from the American League, where he’s been to the playoffs six times. The Cubs have had success specifically with former American League East pitchers, as the bottom of National League lineups simply aren’t as dangerous as their AL counterparts.

Price’s affinity to have a good time at his job would fit in nicely with the Cubs’ current vibe, and he’s a proven winner.

Cons: Price’s durability was nice for the teams who have employed him in the past, but the 1,500-plus career innings Price has thrown between the regular season and playoffs is bound to catch up with him at some point during his next deal.

Even if the Cy Young runner-up comes to Chicago at a bit of a discount, the price tag -- think $200 million total and $25 million-$30 million per season -- undoubtedly would hamper future potential moves.

And then there’s that 2-7 postseason record. That in itself shouldn’t scare the Cubs off entirely, but you’d hate to spend all that money and not get bang for your buck at the most important time of the year.

Jordan Zimmermann

Pros: Zimmermann is a bulldog of a competitor with Midwestern roots that seemingly would make him a good fit in the Cubs’ clubhouse. He also has been durable with relatively low mileage on his arm. Since returning as a full-time starter from Tommy John surgery in 2009, Zimmermann has made at least 32 starts in each of the past four seasons, but overall he has thrown only 1,094 innings, giving him the same vibe Jeff Samardzija possesses: a veteran pitcher with a young arm.

He’s also a control freak on the mound, having never walked more than 43 batters in a season, including allowing just 39 in 201 innings last season. He also led the league in fewest walks per nine innings in 2014.

As for his high home run total last season, according to ESPN Stats & Information, Zimmermann ranked 55th of 58 pitchers in terms of home run distance (minimum 20 home runs given up) so it’s quite possible a few of those long balls won’t go over the fence next season.

And finally, Zimmermann is likely to cost about half as much as Price, which would leave the Cubs more money for other moves.

Cons: No matter how you spin it, 24 balls left the park off of Zimmermann in 2015, 11th-most in the National League. Hitters clearly have squared him up more during the past two seasons, as he had more hits allowed (204) than innings pitched this year. That coincides with an increase in line drives allowed (30 percent) during the past two years after previously hovering around 23 percent.

Meanwhile, there have been some instances of guys who had Tommy John surgery slowing down sooner than other pitchers years after recovery. So, like Price, there could be issues later in the contract.
Ehhh..
I saw an article that suggests they may be more interested in Greinke over Price..

Nobody knows who gonna sign where, its all guesses on who the cubs prefer and where the players want to go. .

Why i never read into what all these rumors says and just wait til it done. .

Today player signing with team X, tomorrow its team Y and out of no where he ends up with team Z
 

CSF77

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Of you can afford it would you sign both Price and Shark? Obviously that leaves little wiggle room to get a need filled at CF.

Don't get that. I see it as they need 1 starter. Not 2. So I'm not buying into that unless Hendricks is involved in a trade to get a young TOR type. Then I could buy it. I don't see them shelving either Hammel or Hendricks.

Now they need a CF. I could see them signing Shark and signing A Jacks for a year. That gives him a chance to build up for a pay day.

Thinking it over they are going to keep CF open for Almora and 1 SP spot for Johnson. Hammel is under control for a year so Johnson slots there. They need a gap to Almora.

So there is still a need for a long term starter. So all things considered Shark and A0Jacks makes the most sense. Add to it it leaves payroll flexible to extend Arrieta.
 

CSF77

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Ehhh..
I saw an article that suggests they may be more interested in Greinke over Price..

Nobody knows who gonna sign where, its all guesses on who the cubs prefer and where the players want to go. .

Why i never read into what all these rumors says and just wait til it done. .

Today player signing with team X, tomorrow its team Y and out of no where he ends up with team Z

Jed has been talking to 12 teams on deals and 12 F/A's. They are putting out a wide net and hopefully it narrows down. I can see them adding 17 mil to Shark and 9 to Jackson. That fits in budget. Then they lose Hammel's 9 mil. E-Jack's 13 mil and A-Jack's 9-10 mil. With that cash opened up they can extend Arrieta to a mega deal.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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A Shark/Jackson off-season would be incredibly disappointing - but still probably smarter than signing Price for $215M.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

chibears55

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Jed has been talking to 12 teams on deals and 12 F/A's. They are putting out a wide net and hopefully it narrows down. I can see them adding 17 mil to Shark and 9 to Jackson. That fits in budget. Then they lose Hammel's 9 mil. E-Jack's 13 mil and A-Jack's 9-10 mil. With that cash opened up they can extend Arrieta to a mega deal.
If their 2 big additions this off season is signing Samardzija and Jackson that would such a big disappointment for cubs fans. .

Those moves would not make team better for 2016 or beyond


I actually wouldn't be surprised if they cant find a workable trade for a CFer if they work something out with Fowler

I still say they will sign Price and trade for an under 30 starter with either Baez or Soler going. ...

I think Hammel will be traded and Hendricks will remain. .
 

CSF77

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If their 2 big additions this off season is signing Samardzija and Jackson that would such a big disappointment for cubs fans. .

Those moves would not make team better for 2016 or beyond


I actually wouldn't be surprised if they cant find a workable trade for a CFer if they work something out with Fowler

I still say they will sign Price and trade for an under 30 starter with either Baez or Soler going. ...

I think Hammel will be traded and Hendricks will remain. .

So Shark is not and improvement to Wood, Wada, etc, etc?

Wrong

Jackson would be a D upgrade to CF. O most likely not unless he get back to a .300 hitter. Still he would be a bridge vs a answer.

So I believe that is a realistic answer. They need innings to lessen the work load on the pen. Then they need a CF. also they need to boost their MR. but I believe they are working on that part already.

That is what I expect right now. They can always tweak things at the deadline
 

chibears55

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So Shark is not and improvement to Wood, Wada, etc, etc?

Wrong

Jackson would be a D upgrade to CF. O most likely not unless he get back to a .300 hitter. Still he would be a bridge vs a answer.

So I believe that is a realistic answer. They need innings to lessen the work load on the pen. Then they need a CF. also they need to boost their MR. but I believe they are working on that part already.

That is what I expect right now. They can always tweak things at the deadline

No..
not if your hoping Samardzija matches the team win totals from that group last year .. so, no he wouldn't be an improvement from them unless he has a career year in wins..
Which is at 11 now

Samardzija to me is no better then Hammel, so they would once again be relying on Lester and Arrieta and hoping for the best with the others...


Austin Jackson could be their last option they could fall back on if all other choices fall through. ....


Again as i said before... If their serious about taking it to the next level in 2016, then they cant be thinking cheaper players
Price, Greinke, or Cueto should be their top choices if those guys are interested in coming to Chicago
 

Boobaby1

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Don't get that. I see it as they need 1 starter. Not 2. So I'm not buying into that unless Hendricks is involved in a trade to get a young TOR type. Then I could buy it. I don't see them shelving either Hammel or Hendricks.

Now they need a CF. I could see them signing Shark and signing A Jacks for a year. That gives him a chance to build up for a pay day.

Thinking it over they are going to keep CF open for Almora and 1 SP spot for Johnson. Hammel is under control for a year so Johnson slots there. They need a gap to Almora.

So there is still a need for a long term starter. So all things considered Shark and A0Jacks makes the most sense. Add to it it leaves payroll flexible to extend Arrieta.

In no way, shape, or form should they sign Jackson IMO because he will want way more than a year, and you don't want to sign a guy like that for that much money, and be a platoon guy. If you are going to spend, you might as well get a bona fide lead-off hitter and CF'er in Span or something, or throw Bryant in center and shuffle the players around to get a guy like Zobrist.

Jackson doesn't have the greatest on base skill set, and if he were to play the majority of the games, he would be 125-135 per year strikeout guy, which the Cubs do not need any more of.
 

CSF77

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No..
not if your hoping Samardzija matches the team win totals from that group last year .. so, no he wouldn't be an improvement from them unless he has a career year in wins..
Which is at 11 now

Samardzija to me is no better then Hammel, so they would once again be relying on Lester and Arrieta and hoping for the best with the others...


Austin Jackson could be their last option they could fall back on if all other choices fall through. ....


Again as i said before... If their serious about taking it to the next level in 2016, then they cant be thinking cheaper players
Price, Greinke, or Cueto should be their top choices if those guys are interested in coming to Chicago

Come on now. Using wins in a argument. That is like saying Lester's season was poor last year based off of wins. Also Hammel is not a 200 IP guy. Shark is. The context of what I wrote was they need a guy that can soak innings to take pressure off of the pen.

add to it what they need to get over the hump is more contact hitting. So on Boo's argument of the added SO's with Jackson makes more sense. But I feel Bryant, Soler and Russell will decrease as they mature. 25-30% from Bryant. Russell should hover around 22% and Soler should be the same as they adapt. Schwarber I expect to be below 20% as he is the best pure hitter of the bunch. Almora is a contact hitter so that is the guy they need to push up.

That is the biggest factor going into 2016. Not any adds.
 

DanTown

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If the Cubs go the Austin Jackson route (which I don't think is a terrible plan), then I'd love to see them go after a Price/Grienke too. The 2016/17 FA class is total garbage at SP so the Cubs really can't upgrade the rotation except right now and they're going to need two arms over the course of the next two years. I'd go Grienke, Zimmerman, and Jackson then look to trade Hammel (eating some cash) to a team like Seattle for Jesus Sucre. Sucre is a great defensive catcher who will be dirt cheap as he goes through arbitration starting in 2017 and depending on what happens with Schwarber behind the plate, Sucre could be a guy you want to have.

I'm not saying they should trade Montero now (though it certainly wouldn't be the worst way to move around money) but if Schwarber comes into camp and shows an ability to be an average defensive catcher and you have four TOR arms, maybe he gets moved around the deadline/to a team that has an injury.

And to be honest, the SO thing is a little overrated. The Cubs will SO no matter what they do unless they trade six/seven of their hitters. So if you're not the Royals with SO, probably makes sense to have a bunch of guys who take walks and hit HR too. All the Cubs need to do (and since they're all so young, it's entirely possible) is just make better two-strike approaches. Too many times you have guys with two strikes and runners in scoring position with less than two outs taking massive swings. Situational hitting improvement and not roster changes will make the SO go down.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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Even though I would be extremely disappointed if our off-season was Shark/Jackson, it does accomplish a few things. 1) It keeps Baez/Soler/Castro all on the roster, so we don't risk trading one and watching them blow up. 2) It maintains our flexibility so we can make a necessary acquisition or two at the dead line.

But this scenario isn't with out significant risk, as well. What if we pony up $82M for Shark and he averages a 4.99 ERA again. It would be devastating. Also we could struggle mightily without a legit lead off replacement for Fowler. And finally what if Soler is injured and Baez continues his torrid K rate? We'll have missed our opportunity to capitalize on their peak value.

I'm glad Theo and Jed are making the decisions and not me.
 

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