You're the GM (Game)

[DanTown]

With as well as the SP played this year and as well as the Cubs player, are you willing to give Montero away for nothing. You may not get a return unless you eat a bunch of the money, if you do that you are not saving any money. That would be a huge risk to move him for nothing and then if Kyle falls flat on his face behind the plate the Cubs could be in a real jam.

If Kyle Schwarber is a higher WAR C than Montero (and I think every single stat/projection would say this), why is Montero the better catcher?

 

[DanTown]

His contract is a fair one in regards to his fWAR. He's an excellent framer and he might be the perfect guy to help both Contreras and Schwarber. I envision Schwarber at C once a week or so in 2016 and the same in 2017. Contreras comes up in 2017 and is a mostly straight platoon with Contreras with Schwarber still learning. Maybe even move Montero at the deadline that year. 2018 Contreras is your primary catcher, Schwarber's there when you go heavily left handed and you get a defensive backstop for protection. Getting rid of Montero any earlier than next offseason makes the team worse IMHO.

His contract being fair to production isn't the question (though I think a fair point can be made will he be a future 2 WAR player at ages 32/33 and with less playing time potentially); the question is does his contract preclude the Cubs from making better moves for the overall roster? Better put, if Montero was a FA and the Cubs only option of adding him was 2/28, would you say that the Cubs should sign that deal in FA? Rather than improving the SP rotation and/or signing a high WAR player like Heyward?

 

[czman]

His contract being fair to production isn't the question (though I think a fair point can be made will he be a future 2 WAR player at ages 32/33 and with less playing time potentially); the question is does his contract preclude the Cubs from making better moves for the overall roster? Better put, if Montero was a FA and the Cubs only option of adding him was 2/28, would you say that the Cubs should sign that deal in FA?

Not really valid because they have to pay him this now, so they can't not pay him and bring in a better option. I am not sure why you are so quick to throw Kyle into the catcher spot when he has not proven he can do it and Ross is......Ross. I don't know enough about the minor league kid to know if he will be ready or not. If you think he is the fall back if Kyle fails I guess it kind of makes sense.

I don't want to gamble on Kyle being ready. That is the kind of move that can backfire bad. The risk reward on moving Montero seems out of whack to me. If it fails you may end up way worse and if it succeeds you are probably only marginally better and the main thing you save is money.

 

[chibears55]

Three things to remember with Montero

1. He makes substantial money (14M the next two years) in comparison to the budget of the team
2. The Cubs not only have a part time C already (Ross), they also may want to move Schwarber there
3. The Cubs best/closest prospect not on the team is C Wilson Contreras
4. Montero is probably with the team at most two more years where as all the prospects/etc have five+ years control

The trade Montero thing has nothing to do with his on-field play. Montero was basically what I thought he would be but a lot has changed since that trade within the organization and the financial constraints of signing say Heyward and two SP makes it tough to afford everyone.

1. Is there something in writing that I missed where people here knows how much Ricketts is willing to spend this year ?
Plus finding a trade partner in which such team willing to take on that salary plus give up something of value talent wise, just wont happen. .
Cubs would need to eat some of that salary to get a significant return, so their not saving much salary there plus having to add an upgraded catcher offensively which will cost money...

2. Montero not a part time catcher if that what you were referring too..
and again, Schwarber not in their plans as a Catcher unless it in an emergency situation.

3. Exactly, and he is at least 2 seasons away (2017)
Which is Montero last year of deal. .
What better way to bring up that prospect and have him learn under Montero for a year before the torch is passed. .

4. See number 3

 

[TC in Mississippi]

His contract being fair to production isn't the question (though I think a fair point can be made will he be a future 2 WAR player at ages 32/33 and with less playing time potentially); the question is does his contract preclude the Cubs from making better moves for the overall roster? Better put, if Montero was a FA and the Cubs only option of adding him was 2/28, would you say that the Cubs should sign that deal in FA? Rather than improving the SP rotation and/or signing a high WAR player like Heyward?

Well I think they can trade Castro for longer salary relief anyway and I think Hammel could be moved. All that said I don't think the payroll needs are dire. They're going to $150 million this year. If they shed Castro's $8 that's about $97 million to start after arb (prediction is $105 mil after arb) and that's assuming they keep Wood and the pickup of Rex Brothers today might preclude that. So if you have $53 to $58 million to spend you could get Heyward at $25 and Samardzija at $17 and still have $10-$15 mil on other needs. There's no need to screw yourself and your pitching staff with an inexperienced catcher. The thought of Schwarber catching Arrieta gives me nightmares so you'd have to go with Ross there and everybody bitched about Ross every time he was in the lineup. Unless you replace him no thank you to moving Montero.

The one caveat? There have been unsubstantiated rumors that the Cubs have been sniffing Milwaukee on Lucroy. Milwaukee won't be competing in the division until he's a FA so they might move him in the Central. In that case, by all means move Montero.

 

[chibears55]

If Kyle Schwarber is a higher WAR C than Montero (and I think every single stat/projection would say this), why is Montero the better catcher?

Simple. .

Defense, Game Calling and most importantly experience
All the important factors you want/need from your catcher

 

[TC in Mississippi]

1. Is there something in writing that I missed where people here knows how much Ricketts is willing to spend this year ?

In writing no, but almost all knowledgeable sources say it's somewhere in the $150 mil range which makes logical sense based on revenue increases from ticket increases and some of the new revenue sources.

 

[DanTown]

Not really valid because they have to pay him this now, so they can't not pay him and bring in a better option.

So Montero doesn't have trade value? They can't move him to save money (whether it be the fullprice or not)? I'm not advocating trading him to open up C for Kyle; I'm advocating trading him to get better value out of the money he makes. The 64K question in any Montero trade is how much (if any) money do you eat.

I am not sure why you are so quick to throw Kyle into the catcher spot when he has not proven he can do it and Ross is......Ross. I don't know enough about the minor league kid to know if he will be ready or not. If you think he is the fall back if Kyle fails I guess it kind of makes sense.

The thing about C is that it lends itself to a platoon naturally because you don't want to run out a C for 150 starts. The reason I think Kyle COULD catch is that we're talking about starting 100 or so games and then, even if you didn't find a cheap defensive 3rd C, you obviously can make late game adjustments (i.e Kyle to LF with Ross catching, Ross catching, etc). I know Kyle struggled but I also know that the Cubs love his makeup as a C beyond just the physical part. And to be honest, he's the better arm of Montero with wild inconsistency.

I don't want to gamble on Kyle being ready. That is the kind of move that can backfire bad. The risk reward on moving Montero seems out of whack to me. If it fails you may end up way worse and if it succeeds you are probably only marginally better and the main thing you save is money.

The absolute worst move that happens is the Cubs run out a poor hitting C in the 9 spot who's equal to Montero defensively (Ross). The updside is Kyle is ready to catch and the Cubs make a massive upgrade to the offense/defense if they sign a Heyward. Again, I think this focus on catching isn't fair to the question. If you can get Heyward in RF, you're obviously better there. If you get Soler in LF, it's entirely possible he's a better RF than Schwarber. That means you've upgraded the defense in two spots (in Heyward to Soler, massively so) so now you don't even need Kyle to be that positive catching, he simply needs to not be a dumpster fire.

 

[DanTown]

Simple. .

Defense, Game Calling and most importantly experience
All the important factors you want/need from your catcher

Offense, HR power. basically all the things that C across baseball struggle with.

Also, how much can Maddon/Bosio help with the game calling that Montero does?

 

[czman]

I think the problem, dantown, is that some people think he may be a dumpster fire. If people differ there, it may be hard to have an consensus on if it makes sense to move him. I am ok agreeing to disagree.

 

[czman]

Offense, HR power. basically all the things that C across baseball struggle with.

Also, how much can Maddon/Bosio help with the game calling that Montero does?

I think Pitch framing is the big issue. The Cubs leading the league in SO and Montero being one of the best pitch frames is more than coincidence.

 

[chibears55]

In writing no, but almost all knowledgeable sources say it's somewhere in the $150 mil range which makes logical sense based on revenue increases from ticket increases and some of the new revenue sources.

That fine being an estimated guess

But to act like they wont sign player A and or B because we think Ricketts wont go over this magical number even if such player(s) make them 100% better is ridiculous. ..

Im not saying grossly over either, just a fair amount...

 

[knoxville7]

That fine being an estimated guess

But to act like they wont sign player A and or B because we think Ricketts wont go over this magical number even if such player(s) make them 100% better is ridiculous. ..

Im not saying grossly over either, just a fair amount...

that's it! sign price, greinke, and heyward

 

[TC in Mississippi]

That fine being an estimated guess

But to act like they wont sign player A and or B because we think Ricketts wont go over this magical number even if such player(s) make them 100% better is ridiculous. ..

Im not saying grossly over either, just a fair amount...

Sure they might if it makes sense. I'm either of those top guys do make sense though but I'm not Theo. Zimmermann and Miller, Shark and Carrasco those moves make the team better to me than signing Price or Greinke.

 

[knoxville7]

Sure they might if it makes sense. I'm either of those top guys do make sense though but I'm not Theo. Zimmermann and Miller, Shark and Carrasco those moves make the team better to me than signing Price or Greinke.

I personally like the idea of signing price and also trading for Shelby miller. if they could make a trade for miller centered around baez I think that's the way to go. a rotation of arrieta, price, lester, miller, and Hendricks would be nasty

 

[chibears55]

So Montero doesn't have trade value? They can't move him to save money (whether it be the fullprice or not)?
I know Kyle struggled but I also know that the Cubs love his makeup as a C beyond just the physical part. And to be honest, he's the better arm of Montero with wild inconsistency.

First on Montero. .
Being 32 and 33 YO making 14 mil per and under control for just the 2 years..plus more of a defensive Catcher then offense
No he doesn't have much trade value by himself for those reasons. ..

Like what i said before, your not going to get much in return for him unless they eat salary and if they eat salary, their not really saving much...



Cubs love Schwarber makeup as a Catcher?
Not sure where you got that from but that 100 % false

If that were the case they would of had him focusing more on the Catching aspects of his game this offseason rather then OF and some catching to just keep him sharp. ..

Schwarber has no future behind the plate, especially with the value he brings with the bat...
think you need to get off that train

 

[chibears55]

Offense, HR power. basically all the things that C across baseball struggle with.

Also, how much can Maddon/Bosio help with the game calling that Montero does?

More the reason you dont squat him behind the plate ..
His offensive potential is way too valuable to risk injuries, less playing time due to rest, and shortening his career

And no his legs / knees won't be able to handle the wear n tear of both Catching and running around in OF all year every year.

Plus being a Catcher and especially a young inexperience one, you need all your focus and training on just that.. not also learning to play another position. ..

 

[chibears55]

Sure they might if it makes sense. I'm either of those top guys do make sense though but I'm not Theo. Zimmermann and Miller, Shark and Carrasco those moves make the team better to me than signing Price or Greinke.

Why cant it be Price /Greinke and Miller or Carrasco

That my whole point..
maybe im wrong but it seems some think if they sign Price or Greinke then they wont or cant add another starter..

My thoughts are they can and should do both if it available and by being available i mean if Price or Greinke come at a reasonable cost under 30 mil per and if they dont spend big on bringing in Jason Heyward at 20 + per..

Cause im thinking it going to be one or the other..high priced pitcher or position player they bring in..

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Why cant it be Price /Greinke and Miller or Carrasco

That my whole point..
maybe im wrong but it seems some think if they sign Price or Greinke then they wont or cant add another starter..

My thoughts are they can and should do both if it available and by being available i mean if Price or Greinke come at a reasonable cost under 30 mil per and if they dont spend big on bringing in Jason Heyward at 20 + per..

Cause im thinking it going to be one or the other..high priced pitcher or position player they bring in..

Two contracts like that continuing at the point where they have arbitration with all the young guys will be tough and if you have any thoughts about keeping Arrieta around those would be gone. If they feel they can swing it without hurting the club in 3 or 4 years I'm for it. Absolutely. I think it's overkill though because I don't think they need a pitcher of that caliber. Arrieta, Lester, Miller/Teheran/Carrasco, Shark and Hendricks is likely the best staff top to bottom in the NL.

 

[CSF77]

Schwarber sucks as a catcher right now. They are not going to entrust the pitching staff to him. Add to it all the talk about adding payroll to the staff to pitch to a negative D valued catcher. Not going to float.

Not to mention I doubt Arrieta pitches 1 pitch to him. All would happen is more AB's for Ross as these guys wouldn't want to see thier numbers suffer form pitching to him.

Here is the thing. Pitching to Montero is a enticing bonus for these F/A's. Even shark had to deal with a sub par pitch framer in Castillo vs a top rated one.

Now on how I feel this plays out:

I believe they were concerned with Hendrick's lack of innings pitched per game last year. They are stuck with Hammel at 9 mil so Moving the cheaper Hendrick's to facilitate a trade makes sense. The other team would be looking at Hendrick's, Baez, Castro or Soler. I see Soler having the most demand of the 3. If it is the Padres for Ross I could see Castro and Hendrick's. I would try to get Ross and Rymer Lyrano. I believe Jed drafted Rymer and he has fallen out of favor. But could be a interesting CF option next year.