You're the GM (Game)

[CSF77]

If they are going to trade it should be from depth. Castro and Baez can't start together right now. A trade of either opens the door for the other. Add to it Vogelbach is another one. He is blocked by Rizzo's deal. After they added him to the 40 man you have to expect them to start using him in pending deals.

Selling Conteres would be not wise. Sure he has trade value but the system is lacking in catchers. It is a system weakness. Mark Zagunis has been moved to the OF. Was drafted as a catcher. Schwarber in LF. We all know the odds of him ending up a quality catcher is low to start. So in reality the Cubs have no catchers in the system to look forward to. As it is Ross is retiring at the end of the year and that makes a easy transition for Contreras to get some playing time at the end of the year then taking a year to back up Montero. See what happens. If he out plays Montero then it opens Montero up for trade thus lowering payroll. VS forcing issues that don't need forcing.

IDK. Some if these proposals are very short sighted. This team was built with a long term vision in mind and I doubt they will pull the panic button and make a move that cripples the team looking ahead. At the end of the day they can afford to add a quality pitcher via F/A. So the need to lose talent to gain talent should not be the primary method viewed. Happ just set the market value for mid tier pitching at 12 mil per. That is how the market is gauged right now.

 

[TL1961]

Baez doesn't catch. He doesn't call pitches or set defenses. Baez hit .294 at Tennessee and Contreras just hit .333 for the Smokies. Your idea of who the "better player" will be is quite interesting to say the least.

I am crazy enough to think a strong defensive middle IF with speed and power can be a good player.

I hope Contreras is a great major leaguer. I am very pleased with what he has done. I fear he won't be in the team's plans, but I honestly hope he forces his way into those plans with continued good play.

 

[chibears55]

If they are going to trade it should be from depth. Castro and Baez can't start together right now. A trade of either opens the door for the other. Add to it Vogelbach is another one. He is blocked by Rizzo's deal. After they added him to the 40 man you have to expect them to start using him in pending deals.

Selling Conteres would be not wise. Sure he has trade value but the system is lacking in catchers. It is a system weakness. Mark Zagunis has been moved to the OF. Was drafted as a catcher. Schwarber in LF. We all know the odds of him ending up a quality catcher is low to start. So in reality the Cubs have no catchers in the system to look forward to. As it is Ross is retiring at the end of the year and that makes a easy transition for Contreras to get some playing time at the end of the year then taking a year to back up Montero. See what happens. If he out plays Montero then it opens Montero up for trade thus lowering payroll. VS forcing issues that don't need forcing.

IDK. Some if these proposals are very short sighted. This team was built with a long term vision in mind and I doubt they will pull the panic button and make a move that cripples the team looking ahead. At the end of the day they can afford to add a quality pitcher via F/A. So the need to lose talent to gain talent should not be the primary method viewed. Happ just set the market value for mid tier pitching at 12 mil per. That is how the market is gauged right now.

I dont disagree with that but here 2 things...

1. Contreras is no sure thing right now , and it not like he tearing it up offensively or defensively

2. If the team their trying to net an arm from that they want don't want anyone else but Contreras, then they dont have a choice of who to give up to get their pitcher..

 

[Parade_Rain]

I am crazy enough to think a strong defensive middle IF with speed and power can be a good player.

I hope Contreras is a great major leaguer. I am very pleased with what he has done. I fear he won't be in the team's plans, but I honestly hope he forces his way into those plans with continued good play.

If he hasn't already, he definitely got their attention in a big way, TL.

"He’s awesome," Ramirez said. "I threw to him almost every time. He calls a game well, He's got a cannon and can hit. It was fun being down there with those guys, especially him. I like the way he calls a game.

"He’s pretty much got it all."

Contreras, 23, in his seventh professional season, broke through by hitting .333 to win the Southern League batting title. That caught the attention of Cubs general manager Jed Hoyer, who pointed out that Contreras went 4-for-4 in his final game to secure the title.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ontreras-receiving-praise-20150908-story.html

The reason why a player like Baez is expendable is the plethora of MIF the Cubs have. Between Russell, LaStella, Castro, Baez, they can trade one of those (IOW, Baez was just a name I threw out). There are others in the system, as well. Ross is on the roster for Lester and leadership. After this season, he's gone. Montero's time will be winding down. If all goes well, Contreras is one of the two catchers in 2017. But catchers who are solid at game calling/managing staffs, provide excellent defense with good pop times and also have a stick aren't a dime a dozen. That isn't a player who will be traded as this article tried to suggest.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I dont disagree with that but here 2 things...

1. Contreras is no sure thing right now , and it not like he tearing it up offensively or defensively

2. If the team their trying to net an arm from that they want don't want anyone else but Contreras, then they dont have a choice of who to give up to get their pitcher..

What? He won the Southern League batting title at .333 and has a 1.85 pop time.

 

[chibears55]

What? He won the Southern League batting title at .333 and has a 1.85 pop time.

He had a great season Avg. wise in AA, but nothing else
He has little power

I dont know, he gonna be 24 and just starting in AAA
Id have to see what he does there to consider him a minor league stud, one good Avg. season in AA dont qualify for me.

Id be ok trading him if it were for a young quality starter

 

[beckdawg]

Sounds like the tigers are making a strong push for Zimmermann. Cubs haven't telegraphed their moves yet but sounding like Tigers will take Zimmermann out for those who want him.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

He had a great season Avg. wise in AA, but nothing else
He has little power

I dont know, he gonna be 24 and just starting in AAA
Id have to see what he does there to consider him a minor league stud, one good Avg. season in AA dont qualify for me.

Id be ok trading him if it were for a young quality starter

The two hardest positions to fill on the big league level, at least with star quality players, are C and SS. The Cubs have their SS but don't have another catcher in the system with the upside of Conteras and those prospects are as hard to find as any in baseball. Montero's contract is up in two years and in Contreras you may well have a cost controlled replacement with better blocking and throwing skills. The framing isn't there just yet but they still feel there's improvement coming. If you're trading for Sonny Gray, by all means include Conteras if it's a favorable deal, but for Shelby Miller there's no way I do that despite liking his game very much.

 

[beckdawg]

I think CF is probably harder to fill than SS but that's kind of nit picking here. For whatever reason, you get a ton of latin SS but almost no CF from the latin countries. Of the 23 qualified CF last year 3 AFAIk were latin. It seems like a case of football/basketball cutting into the range quick guys who are black. I'd probably go with C first, CF second then SS but as I said it's sorta nitpicking.

With that said, I think people are too quick to throw away Almora in trade talks. It's actually fairly crazy how bad CF is these days. I mean SS isn't easy to fill and within the last year we've seen Russell, Lindor and Correra who all could be all-stars. In CF you're talking about Betts who was converted to a CF, Buxton and sort of Peterson though he is more a "good enough" CF rather than a "good" CF. And while there's a couple of names in the top 100 who may be CF and decent ones, you're not talking about any top 10 guys other than Buxton and you haven't had many other than Buxton in the past 5 or so years.

 

[TL1961]

I agree that people are quick to dismiss Almora. We will have a very good offense, no CF, and poor defenders in the corners. Seems to me a guy like Almora is exactly what we need, even though he is not doing as well offensively as we'd all like.

Smart organizations have thrown strong defenders in CF regardless of bat when all the other pieces were in place. We are pretty much in that position. If he truly is a GG caliber defender, play him in CF and bat him 9th, and don't worry too much. Maybe not opening day 2016, but soon. Don't throw him away in a deal.

(OK....I admit, it feels like I don't want to trade anyone. I know someone has to go, and I will be OK once the deal is done. It's not so much that a prospect I like will be traded, but the proposed deals on here seem to lump a lot of them in for so-so deals.)

 

[TL1961]

Sounds like the tigers are making a strong push for Zimmermann. Cubs haven't telegraphed their moves yet but sounding like Tigers will take Zimmermann out for those who want him.

I have expected the Cubs and Cards to be teams that would be interested. We'll have to see whether the Tigers wrap him up or are just kicking the tires.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I agree that people are quick to dismiss Almora. We will have a very good offense, no CF, and poor defenders in the corners. Seems to me a guy like Almora is exactly what we need, even though he is not doing as well offensively as we'd all like.

Smart organizations have thrown strong defenders in CF regardless of bat when all the other pieces were in place. We are pretty much in that position. If he truly is a GG caliber defender, play him in CF and bat him 9th, and don't worry too much. Maybe not opening day 2016, but soon. Don't throw him away in a deal.

(OK....I admit, it feels like I don't want to trade anyone. I know someone has to go, and I will be OK once the deal is done. It's not so much that a prospect I like will be traded, but the proposed deals on here seem to lump a lot of them in for so-so deals.)

I think the people mentioning McKinney have that piece right. He isn't a CF. Also, Candelario is blocked...if Soler is not traded and Heyward or Gordon not signed by the Club (Bryant left at 3B). And then Vogelbach was placed on the 40 man and is blocked by Rizzo. He's also not a great defensive 1B, so that would be an AL trade piece. So it looks like they have plenty of solid prospects they could include in a trade without giving up Almora.

 

[beckdawg]

even though he is not doing as well offensively as we'd all like.

I mean that's the thing... he actually hit well in AA this past season. We're talking .272/.327/.400 as a 21 year old which is 2-3 years younger than "average" for that league. He had a rough 2014 as I believe he was dealing with some injuries but his 2013 was also quite good. The biggest issue with him in my estimation is you're probably only getting 15/15 in HR/SB out of him in the best case. And that's where people misjudge in my estimation. It's largely because a .270 hitter with 15 HR max power and little speed isn't that exciting. However, what I feel people often don't take into account is that all of 10 CF last year hit 15 or more HRs and of those only Trout, Adam Jones, Betts, Pollock, and Cain were positive UZR/150's. Kevin Kiermaier this season hit .263/.298/.420 with 10 HRs and 18 steals and was worth 5.5 fWAR because he was the best defensive CF in the league. That was good enough for the 5th best fWAR among CF behind Trout, McCutchen, Lorenzo Cain and AJ Pollock.

Almora gets over looked a bit because his two strongest tools are probably the hardest to quantify. The defense is the one that gets talked about but from everything that I've read about him, his make up is off the charts which is probably why he's been on a record amount of US national teams. The thing is, if he gives you gold glove defense in CF he's an average player there as illustrated with Kiermaler and Billy Hamilton if you want another example. If you get even average hitting out of him he's probably a fringe all-star. If he comes around to decent hitter then you start talking star.

 

[beckdawg]

Tigers to sign Zimmermann

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/tigers-to-sign-jordan-zimmermann.html

 

[Parade_Rain]

I mean that's the thing... he actually hit well in AA this past season. We're talking .272/.327/.400 as a 21 year old which is 2-3 years younger than "average" for that league. He had a rough 2014 as I believe he was dealing with some injuries but his 2013 was also quite good. The biggest issue with him in my estimation is you're probably only getting 15/15 in HR/SB out of him in the best case. And that's where people misjudge in my estimation. It's largely because a .270 hitter with 15 HR max power and little speed isn't that exciting. However, what I feel people often don't take into account is that all of 10 CF last year hit 15 or more HRs and of those only Trout, Adam Jones, Betts, Pollock, and Cain were positive UZR/150's. Kevin Kiermaier this season hit .263/.298/.420 with 10 HRs and 18 steals and was worth 5.5 fWAR because he was the best defensive CF in the league. That was good enough for the 5th best fWAR among CF behind Trout, McCutchen, Lorenzo Cain and AJ Pollock.

Almora gets over looked a bit because his two strongest tools are probably the hardest to quantify. The defense is the one that gets talked about but from everything that I've read about him, his make up is off the charts which is probably why he's been on a record amount of US national teams. The thing is, if he gives you gold glove defense in CF he's an average player there as illustrated with Kiermaler and Billy Hamilton if you want another example. If you get even average hitting out of him he's probably a fringe all-star. If he comes around to decent hitter then you start talking star.

How can a guy be an excellent CF and not have "speed"? I think what you meant there was not a great base runner. Would that be correct?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Really curious about the money Detroit has given Zimmermann.

 

[beckdawg]

How can a guy be an excellent CF and not have "speed"? I think what you meant there was not a great base runner. Would that be correct?

Yeah when I say speed i'm almost always talking about base running. I probably should word that better but i'm always lazy I guess. As for how he can be excellent, from what I've read, he just reads the ball off the bat really well and takes efficient paths. That's one of the cool things about that stat cast they are now using in some games is it shows route efficiency. Almora's run rating from MLB.com is a 50. So, he's not "slow" it's just he's not your typical 30-50 SB type CF with little power. Also, positioning in the OF makes quite a bit of difference. That's one of the things they apparently did with Fowler this year to make him better. If you're in the right spot when the ball is hit you don't have to run as far. In addition to all that, he's got a really good arm apparently with a 60 grade. Fangraphs had his arm rating better than Soler's and Soler has a cannon.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Really curious about the money Detroit has given Zimmermann.

It's probably green and crisp like it just came from the printer.

 

[chibears55]

Really curious about the money Detroit has given Zimmermann.

I saw 5/110

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I saw 5/110

Just saw that too. Less money fewer years than expected. Disappointed the Cubs wouldn't have been in on him.