You're the GM (Game)

[JimJohnson]

So, you basically just want him to trade Baez just because you want to trade Baez? You have no idea who is even available out there and the asking price. You are just throwing darts at a wall and hope they stick.

There were plenty of guys available such as the guys from Cleveland. Gray from Oakland is available. Theo just didn't pull the trigger.

 

[JimJohnson]

I guess trading Baez for a cost controlled TOR guy....even if he turns out to be crap or blows out an arm and even if Baez turns into a perennial All-Star is the way to go in JimJohnson's world of whine. Not saying that will happen but it could and considering that Baez has less than one year's experience in the big show....call me crazy, but I'm guessing Theo wants to see what he has before shipping him out. There's no rush on this. There is plenty of time to decide....injuries will play into these decisions not only for the Cubs but also for potential trading partners. Just because a handful of goofs in here proclaim the Cub's pitching to be substandard, doesn't mean that's the case. No one knows that for sure....no one.

I love the reluctance of the board to trade Baez. Flashback to the 2014-2015 season, people had just about given up on Baez b/c of his K rate. Beckdawg even said as much, providing a laundry list of statistics which detailed why Baez would never become more than a solid utility player.

Now, suddenly, Baez is the greatest thing since sliced bread and noway, no how can we give him up. You people are LULZ.

 

[brett05]

To early for the trolls Brett. Let people have their coffee first.

Not trolling at all. If you look past the stupidity being offered by all parties, JJ makes a valid point and I have not seen anything worth while refuting it. Open to it, just no one is posting a rebuttal.

 

[DanTown]

You and Silence don't seem to get this point about deadline trading. When a TOR is available at the deadline, there will be multiple teams that engage in a bidding war for his services. They won't come cheap and you may only get them for a year or two before they hit FA. I would argue that this is possibly the worst time to get a TOR pitcher.

No, YOU seem to not understand how a trade for a TOR arm goes. Think of all the arms avaiable and think of those teams. They just watched Shelby Miller get traded for a 4 WAR OF + #1 pick + top 100 prospect. SHELBY MILLER! The Braves asked for KRIS FREAKING BRYANT. You're complaining about the cost being high yet don't realize it's higher now than when the Jays traded for Price.

There are a lot of arms on teams that may or may not contend so you're waiting to see what those teams do because if they fall back, it becomes easier to get them to part with an arm. Right now Cleveland thinks they're going to compete for the Central so to trade for Salazar/Carrasco would involve a lot of MLB-ready talent going back; if they're not ready to contend, maybe the Cubs can give up more of their prospects instead of MLB guys.

Maybe the Cubs didn't trade Javier Baez for a TOR arm because no one was willing to trade a TOR arm for Javier Baez?

 

[Diehardfan]

I love the reluctance of the board to trade Baez. Flashback to the 2014-2015 season, people had just about given up on Baez b/c of his K rate. Beckdawg even said as much, providing a laundry list of statistics which detailed why Baez would never become more than a solid utility player.

Now, suddenly, Baez is the greatest thing since sliced bread and noway, no how can we give him up. You people are LULZ.

You are an idiot. What part of "No one knows for sure" can you not comprehend?

 

[DanTown]

Not trolling at all. If you look past the stupidity being offered by all parties, JJ makes a valid point and I have not seen anything worth while refuting it. Open to it, just no one is posting a rebuttal.

No, his logic is "if player X on the Cubs wasn't traded for a TOR arm," it was because the Cubs didn't do it. By this logic, the Cubs could have traded Alcantra or Szcur for a TOR arm but they didn't.

What massive trade value does Javier Baez have? If there was at least some rumor or talked about deal then maybe but this is just conjecture as if the opinion's of this board drives the Cubs trade market.

 

[JimJohnson]

Dan there were plenty of Baez trade rumors in the offseason. WTF are you talking about?

 

[JimJohnson]

You are an idiot. What part of "No one knows for sure" can you not comprehend?

You are an idiot is sound logic. Thanks for playing chump.

 

[Diehardfan]

You are an idiot is sound logic. Thanks for playing chump.

Yep....my mistake.

That should read whining idiot.

 

[DanTown]

Dan there were plenty of Baez trade rumors in the offseason. WTF are you talking about?

Really? You mean when the Cubs were rumored to be willing to part with Baez for Shelby Miller?

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/...lose-sending-javier-baez-braves-shelby-miller

Source: Cubs close to deal for Shelby Miller. Braves would get Baez (after talks shifted from Soler).

I'm asking for the rumored deals where the Cubs didn't part with Baez to get an arm. If Shelby Miller goes for a 3-4 WAR OF + #1 pick in the most recent draft + a top 100 prospect, I figure that other arms with even better deals and more years of control (Gray, Carrasco, Salazar, etc) would cost more.

I mean, none of us know what the cost to acquire those guys is. But it's clear that they were willing to move Baez.

 

[JimJohnson]

I'm not making the claim that Baez lands you Gray straight up. Only that he'd be a big piece of the trade. Obviously there was more that needed to be done to complete it. But its apparent that Theo is unwilling to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade involving our young studs, most notably Baez. Hell, there were plenty of opportunities last year at the deadline to make it happen (since you all seem to be fond of deadline deals) and nothing was done.

Yes the asking price is high. Guess what? That's not likely to change anytime soon so better get used to it.

 

[Parade_Rain]

You are an idiot is sound logic. Thanks for playing chump.

It's the Trump way.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm not making the claim that Baez lands you Gray straight up. Only that he'd be a big piece of the trade. Obviously there was more that needed to be done to complete it. But its apparent that Theo is unwilling to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade involving our young studs, most notably Baez. Hell, there were plenty of opportunities last year at the deadline to make it happen (since you all seem to be fond of deadline deals) and nothing was done.

Yes the asking price is high. Guess what? That's not likely to change anytime soon so better get used to it.

I'd rather he be frugal and let the market correct itself after AZ shat the bed and gave up way too much for Miller. Epstein's done enough to prove he is a darn good GM and is owed a bit of patience when it comes to not trading away talent this off-season, regardless of whether any of us think Baez will be a great super sub or fall flat on his face.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I'm not making the claim that Baez lands you Gray straight up. Only that he'd be a big piece of the trade. Obviously there was more that needed to be done to complete it. But its apparent that Theo is unwilling to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade involving our young studs, most notably Baez. Hell, there were plenty of opportunities last year at the deadline to make it happen (since you all seem to be fond of deadline deals) and nothing was done.

Yes the asking price is high. Guess what? That's not likely to change anytime soon so better get used to it.

Look, nobody wants or realizes the need for a young cost controlled starter more than I do. I think it is a large piece to the current 2 year window and to the larger window going forward. I also have no issue moving Soler or Baez for the right arm. I don't think Theo and Jed do either, although they seem to be more interested in dealing Soler than Baez likely because of the makeup of the current team and Baez' positional flexibility. That said if a deal was there I think they'd make it. The only impact arm to move this offseason has been Shelby Miller and that deal without question skewed the market. Teams like the Indians, Rays and Braves weren't going to trade young arms like Carrasco, Salazar, Moore, Teheran or even Rays #1 prospect Blake Snell without a very large package. Do the Cubs have what it takes to make up that package? Probably but I don't think you're looking at a couple of key factors.

I mentioned that the current market was skewed by the Shelby Miller deal. One executive called it the worst move he had ever seen in his career. Time will tell on that one but it was a lot to give up for a pitcher who hasn't fully shown that he's ready to take that step into TOR starter. In Dansby Swanson the D-Backs gave up one of the most surefire stud prospects this side of Kris Bryant and Addison Russell. Teams just aren't going to make deals like that every day, pitching need or no pitching need. Gutting a farm system for a 2 year contention window isn't great business. So given that the the market will adjust and if teams end up trading young guys like the above and Sonny Gray they'll get nice packages for them but teams realize the uncertainly of young pitching and that's going to temper the market.

On the Cubs end you have to look at it from their point of view. No one knows the value of players better than the their own team and in the Cubs case I believe this to be especially true. I tend to guess that their is some uncertainly in their minds for Soler and not as much for Baez, however I don't believe they think either has reached a peak value and the same is true for some of the other prospects. If Soler, Baez and some of the kids on the farm like Gleyber Torres or Ian Happ come out hot their value is going to be higher than it is now and, with the market coming back some after the insanity of the Miller deal, I think the Cubs feel they're in a decent position here and lets face it the rotation is pretty good right now so there is no desperation. Yes value can go the other way too but you've got to bank on you're own knowledge base and I think that's what they're doing.

All of that being said I think they waited too long on both Castro and Castillo last year but those guys were a little bit different that Baez and Soler. I think they realize Soler's floor and are pretty sure on Baez' and feel that they're more likely to improve than regress increasing their value. Is it a gamble? Sure, but I think it's an educated one. I'd like to see a pitcher added this year but I don't think it's critical until next offseason. This bunch can win a World Series this year and look to be a juggernaut in the regular season with a pitching staff that is solid and deep. There is really no reason to overreact right now.

 

[brett05]

No, his logic is "if player X on the Cubs wasn't traded for a TOR arm," it was because the Cubs didn't do it. By this logic, the Cubs could have traded Alcantra or Szcur for a TOR arm but they didn't.

What massive trade value does Javier Baez have? If there was at least some rumor or talked about deal then maybe but this is just conjecture as if the opinion's of this board drives the Cubs trade market.

The talk for some time now has been the possibility of moving a Baez for a controlled TOR. It's not new. I will leave it for JJ to clarify, but I do not interpret what he has written as how you summarized.

 

[DanTown]

The talk for some time now has been the possibility of moving a Baez for a controlled TOR. It's not new. I will leave it for JJ to clarify, but I do not interpret what he has written as how you summarized.

You mean his position where he said the Cubs wouldn't move Baez except that was proven not true when the Cubs were rumored to be close for Shelby Miller mostly because they were willing to give up Baez?

You cannot say "the Cubs didn't trade for an arm because they didn't want to trade Baez". One, evidence of that doesn't exist and two, it's wrong since we know the Cubs WERE willing to trade Baez to get Miller.

 

[brett05]

You mean his position where he said the Cubs wouldn't move Baez except that was proven not true when the Cubs were rumored to be close for Shelby Miller mostly because they were willing to give up Baez?

You cannot say "the Cubs didn't trade for an arm because they didn't want to trade Baez". One, evidence of that doesn't exist and two, it's wrong since we know the Cubs WERE willing to trade Baez to get Miller.

Unless Theo or the like comes out and says that we don't know

 

[DanTown]

Unless Theo or the like comes out and says that we don't know

So you want the GM to come and acknowledge a trade rumor? Has that ever happened in the history of baseball? If you refuse to accept a report from a Cubs insider than this is stupid.

 

[JimJohnson]

Epstein's done enough to prove he is a darn good GM and is owed a bit of patience when it comes to not trading away talent this off-season, regardless of whether any of us think Baez will be a great super sub or fall flat on his face.

And I'm not arguing that he's not a great GM. I'm glad we have him. That being said, I stand by my position that he seems to be quite concerned about trading a prospect or 2 for a cost controlled Ace. Hitting is not our team's weakness, pitching is. I would give our rotation a grade of B+ right now. But I don't think it's phenomenal by any means.

 

[Parade_Rain]

And I'm not arguing that he's not a great GM. I'm glad we have him. That being said, I stand by my position that he seems to be quite concerned about trading a prospect or 2 for a cost controlled Ace. Hitting is not our team's weakness, pitching is. I would give our rotation a grade of B+ right now. But I don't think it's phenomenal by any means.

Which hitter isn't the team's weakness? How do you know which ones to trade yet? If it was that simple anyone could be a GM. As has been stated, thy have the pitching to get them to the post-season where once in it, anything can happen.