“THAT” is too much for Watson...

[Montucky]

Khalil showed him what elite means. Does Brady getting rid of it quick mean anything for the rookie?

Talk about throwing in the towel, jeesh.

 

[Dejo]

I would rather go through the normal competitive cycle of NFL ups-and-downs that go for a ride with Deshaun Watson winning between four and seven games ever year because the defense is routinely one of the NFL's worst. Because obviously if the Bears were to pull this trade off it would be the immediate Watson appeasement tour where what scraps of draft capital and cap space is left would just go towards obsolete veterans.

All this for a guy with zero loyalty? Who will certainly do to the Bears what he did to the Texans after he has a couple six win seasons in Chicago? No thanks, I just want no part of this obvious disaster.

Weird shit right here. Obvious trolling at this point.

 

[Dejo]

Talk about throwing in the towel, jeesh.

More like throwing an OL amirite?

So by all means, lay out your master plan to get this team to relevancy. Just remember what the definition of insanity is.

 

[Montucky]

More like throwing an OL amirite?

So by all means, lay out your master plan to get this team to relevancy. Just remember what the definition of insanity is.

No, you've clearly given up in this argument. It was really over when you pulled a startling and almost-rare (but not on these forums...) self own by listing all the first round picks that have contributed to the Rams defense while your core argument was how first round picks were worthless. You should've given up then, but you're still here flailing. I'm sure you'll still be flailing after I leave.

 

[Dejo]

No, you've clearly given up in this argument. It was really over when you pulled a startling and almost-rare (but not on these forums...) self own by listing all the first round picks that have contributed to the Rams defense while your core argument was how first round picks were worthless. You should've given up then, but you're still here flailing. I'm sure you'll still be flailing after I leave.

Nice deflection. Hard when the feet are pressed to the fire I suppose.

Also, Rams traded those players that they acquired, none of which are their own drafting. So get this, they gave up picks to get guys and then paid them vis drafting a rookie and building their own. Weird fucking concept to be a fan of yet oppose the Watson trade.

 

[ChiKhan]

We're not just talking about 1st round picks either. If it was just 3 1st I'd do that. Talking about 3 1sts 3 2nds and 3rds with 2 1st round talents in Jaylon and Roquan for 1 player. Name 1 NFL team that gave up that much for 1 player and succeeded. This isn't the NBA.

 

[Dejo]

We're not just talking about 1st round picks either. If it was just 3 1st I'd do that. Talking about 3 1sts 3 2nds and 3rds with 2 1st round talents in Jaylon and Roquan for 1 player. Name 1 NFL team that gave up that much for 1 player and succeeded. This isn't the NBA.

I get your point. How many TOP 5 QBs have become available in the past?

We gave up a ton for Khalil and he wrecked some shit, still does. Worth. Every. Penny.

 

[Montucky]

Nice deflection. Hard when the feet are pressed to the fire I suppose.

Also, Rams traded those players that they acquired, none of which are their own drafting. So get this, they gave up picks to get guys and then paid them vis drafting a rookie and building their own. Weird fucking concept to be a fan of yet oppose the Watson trade.

Its about contracts, which in a salary cap league is extremely important. The Rams are taking a twenty million dollar annual cap hit paying Jalen Ramsey on top of the two first round picks they gave up. The reason draft picks are so highly valued by everyone other than the Rams is the cap flexibility it provides when teams hit on them. Why do you think Kansas City can afford Tyrann Mathieu, Chris Jones and Frank Clark?

 

[DrGonzo]

Like which teams? Seems to me that it’s the same shitty teams with high picks every year . Last year there were 7 teams without a 1st rd pick. 5 of those teams made the playoffs this year. In 2019 there were 5 teams without a 1st rd pick, 4 of whom made the playoffs this year. I see this said a lot, but there’s little to no recent evidence to back it up.

You make a reasonable point (and back it up with evidence). But how many of those teams were also in cap hell? At some point the Bears need to have young talent in the pipeline to replace players like Fuller and Robinson they can no longer afford.

They also need to rebuild the OL to protect an investment like Watson. How do they do that without picks?

I want them to go get him and I think they would be a more interesting team with him even if their record doesn't improve because of poor talent at other positions.

But I've seen this movie before when we wanted Cutler at any cost and Mack at any cost then we were bummed that they still couldn't win because they didn't have the ammo to be good all around. Maybe those are bad examples because the Bears never got good value in return for what they gave up, but then there are no guarantees even with Watson.

How much of the talent around Mahomes would be there if KC had given up two firsts and two seconds to get him?

 

[run and shoot]

No, you've clearly given up in this argument. It was really over when you pulled a startling and almost-rare (but not on these forums...) self own by listing all the first round picks that have contributed to the Rams defense while your core argument was how first round picks were worthless. You should've given up then, but you're still here flailing. I'm sure you'll still be flailing after I leave.

Do me a favor? Please explain this comment >>>>> #1,202 What does it have to with me addressing your points?
Don't run from it.

 

[DammitFullerTurnUrHead!]

You make a reasonable point (and back it up with evidence). But how many of those teams were also in cap hell? At some point the Bears need to have young talent in the pipeline to replace players like Fuller and Robinson they can no longer afford.

They also need to rebuild the OL to protect an investment like Watson. How do they do that without picks?

I want them to go get him and I think they would be a more interesting team with him even if their record doesn't improve because of poor talent at other positions.

But I've seen this movie before when we wanted Cutler at any cost and Mack at any cost then we were bummed that they still couldn't win because they didn't have the ammo to be good all around. Maybe those are bad examples because the Bears never got good value in return for what they gave up, but then there are no guarantees even with Watson.

How much of the talent around Mahomes would be there if KC had given up two firsts and two seconds to get him?

They will still have picks though, my point is, high draft picks are overvalued and can add talent without them. Good teams realize this and do not place an emphasis on drafting high in order to sustain success. The goal should be to identify, develop and acquire talent no matter the means.

To answer your question about the chiefs....Tyreek Hill was a 5th rd pick. Travis Kelce was a 3rd rd pick. Chiefs gave up a 1st Rd pick to acquire Frank Clark, who is arguably their best player on defense.

moreover, only 1 of the chiefs’ starting OL was drafted by the chiefs with a 1st/2nd rd pick. Two were 7th rd picks, one was a 3rd rd pick and one was an undrafted FA. Only 1st rd pick heavily contributing to the chiefs offense is Edwards Helaire, who was drafted 32nd overall.

 

[sevvy]

We're not just talking about 1st round picks either. If it was just 3 1st I'd do that. Talking about 3 1sts 3 2nds and 3rds with 2 1st round talents in Jaylon and Roquan for 1 player. Name 1 NFL team that gave up that much for 1 player and succeeded. This isn't the NBA.

And part of the problem with giving up that many picks, is that it's not like we're 1 QB away from winning the Super Bowl. We need to draft well to turn this team around. We're not going to find stud LTs and RTs in round 4.

If the price is right, or we can give up a few picks and part with a player or 2, okay. But giving up our next 3 drafts with the actual talent we have is going to be very problematic. We're just going to turn this team into the Texans. People will rage the fuck out over that. And then this forum will just be a "We have a way better QB, but we still hate him" forum. I can't wait.

 

[fx1718]

And part of the problem with giving up that many picks, is that it's not like we're 1 QB away from winning the Super Bowl. We need to draft well to turn this team around. We're not going to find stud LTs and RTs in round 4.

If the price is right, or we can give up a few picks and part with a player or 2, okay. But giving up our next 3 drafts with the actual talent we have is going to be very problematic. We're just going to turn this team into the Texans. People will rage the fuck out over that. And then this forum will just be a "We have a way better QB, but we still hate him" forum. I can't wait.

What % of starting NFL tackles do you think got drafted round 1/2?

 

[sevvy]

What % of starting NFL tackles do you think got drafted round 1/2?

I have no idea. Lay it on me.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't go after Watson. I'm saying that we're not in a great position to succeed as an organization if we spend all that on Watson. So people need to prepare for us to waste a few years of being garbage with no draft capital while having Watson at the helm.

I mean, it will obviously be worth it if he plays for another 12 years and retires as a Chicago Bear. It'll just be a bumpy road for a while, and people will need to temper their expectations.

 

[fx1718]

I have no idea. Lay it on me.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't go after Watson. I'm saying that we're not in a great position to succeed as an organization if we spend all that on Watson. So people need to prepare for us to waste a few years of being garbage with no draft capital while having Watson at the helm.

It was a question I cant seem to find an answer to. But I'm guessing less than 50%. Bears have two.

I would rather waste 2 years with Watson as a building block than waste 2021 with Foles and 2022 still unknown.

 

[sevvy]

It was a question I cant seem to find an answer to. But I'm guessing less than 50%. Bears have two.

I would rather waste 2 years with Watson as a building block than waste 2021 with Foles.

There also is a difference between starting tackles, and good tackles. Lol.

If it's wasting 2 years, sure. Sounds great. But not having our top 3 picks for 3 years sounds like an absolute trainwreck. For an already trainwreck of a team.

I'd still do it. I'm just sayin'... hold onto your butts.

 

[fx1718]

There also is a difference between starting tackles, and good tackles. Lol.

If it's wasting 2 years, sure. Sounds great. But not having our top 3 picks for 3 years sounds like an absolute trainwreck. For an already trainwreck of a team.

I'd still do it. I'm just sayin'... hold onto your butts.

Leno is gonna be your starter next year anyway. People need to prepare for that. His grade actually got a lot better once the middle of the line was changed. They will cut Massie.

IMO If the Bears dont get Watson or someone they will draft a QB at 20 or trade up and use picks. I think Watson is a quality starter til hes 35-36 at a minimum.

 

[circusboy666]

You give up 3 1st rd picks any and 2 fn defensive players they want

 

[Dejo]

Its about contracts, which in a salary cap league is extremely important. The Rams are taking a twenty million dollar annual cap hit paying Jalen Ramsey on top of the two first round picks they gave up. The reason draft picks are so highly valued by everyone other than the Rams is the cap flexibility it provides when teams hit on them. Why do you think Kansas City can afford Tyrann Mathieu, Chris Jones and Frank Clark?

Chiefs are the outlier in terms of team building. They had the foundation and didn’t win shit until they got the QB. Ask Reid about the importance of a QB.

All I am telling you is there is more than one way to build a contender. The crux of it is what is your alternative to Watson? Top 5 QB with him, ???????? without him.

Once you have the QB you can figure the rest out. Packers teams are nowhere near the locomotive offensive engine without Rodgers. You should have seen Lafleur the OC prior to GB. Nagy has him by the throat there.

I know the trolling will continue, but until you can come up with an alternative, Bears are stuck in absolute mediocrity for a while, with a crawl towards the cellar.

 

[Dejo]

I have no idea. Lay it on me.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't go after Watson. I'm saying that we're not in a great position to succeed as an organization if we spend all that on Watson. So people need to prepare for us to waste a few years of being garbage with no draft capital while having Watson at the helm.

I mean, it will obviously be worth it if he plays for another 12 years and retires as a Chicago Bear. It'll just be a bumpy road for a while, and people will need to temper their expectations.

Very possible, but give me that shit over whatever the fuck had been fielded. Watson at least gives you hope.