1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[houheffna]

If you look at Lebron's first MVP year against Pip's in 94...you can see that Lebron dominated more than Scottie did and also Lebron stepped his game up in the playoffs while Scottie regressed...

Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I really hate TS% because it can be made to hide certain flaws in someone floor game.

If someone shot terrible from 2, and had a good FT and hit the only 3 he took, he TS% will make it look like he had a great game when if you look at his FG%, it will tell a different story. eFG% is the same way as having a good 3-point shooting night can hid his bad shooting from 2.

usually i hate bleacher report but i do love this formula they made to evaluate shooting

The Formula

((Two-point field-goal percentage + (three-point field-goal percentage * three-point multiplier) + free throw)) * years played) + clutch reputation bonus = career player shooter value
NBA: 75 Greatest Shooters of the 3-Point Era | Bleacher Report


not perfect..but really nice imo

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

lol at the fact SP94 came in here and left.

He must have had a brain aneurysm.

 

[nwfisch]

Scottie was a great player and is the 2nd best player in Bulls history right now, but he's not better than Lebron James. He was a great player in his time, but Lebron is the better all-time great.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

In reference to having opinions, I offer this.

After Game 5 or 6 of the ECF, I posted that the Bulls should get Jason Richardson. It's my thinking that he could provide some scoring that is desperately needed from the 2. I looked at some of his stats, compared it to a couple others (I don't remember the others), and that is how I formed the opinion of the Bulls looking to go after him.

There were many others who disagreed with me, for a variety of reasons. A couple people made claims of, "I never liked him, don't want him on the Bulls." Well that's great that you don't like him, but why don't you like him? What about his playing has made you form the opinion that the Bulls don't need him.

In the end, it was Rami I believe, who made a strong argument against Richardson and it was that argument that made me backoff the Richardson thing. I still think he would be helpful, but I don't think he is the be-all, end-all like I thought he was. And I only thought that because the Bulls had just lost the series (maybe, if it was Game 5 then I was just upset at a Bulls loss), and was basing my opinion on emotion at the time. Which as it turns out, was the wrong opinion to hold.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

If you look at Lebron's first MVP year against Pip's in 94...you can see that Lebron dominated more than Scottie did and also Lebron stepped his game up in the playoffs while Scottie regressed...

Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

****. If I would have known about that my post wouldn't have taken as long to gather. NBA.com has some statistics cube which I think is kind of the same thing, but it wasn't working.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

another intersting thing i found:
NBA Elo Player Rater: Mike Gale vs. Bob Weiss | Basketball-Reference.com

basically you look at stats in comparison to two players and from there you choose which one was/is better..the player who you chose to be better gains points...the player you chose to not be better loses points..its not even close to perfect or anything(probably some retards have been on there that want to **** it up) but interesting to look at the nontheless

 

[houheffna]

****. If I would have known about that my post wouldn't have taken as long to gather. NBA.com has some statistics cube which I think is kind of the same thing, but it wasn't working.

Its also interesting to see that Pippen averaged only 1 more shot attempt a game then he did through some of his prime years with Jordan...

 

[clonetrooper264]

Most off topic thread ever...xD

 

[97Bulls]

If you look at Lebron's first MVP year against Pip's in 94...you can see that Lebron dominated more than Scottie did and also Lebron stepped his game up in the playoffs while Scottie regressed...

Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

While I don't think. Pippen would've ever got to 35 ppg, you must take into account the rule changes. Which really helped james stats. Also, larry hughes took on the big defensive assignments. Why the defense is never factored in is beyond me.

It just strange to me that you just post stats without delving deeper into why those particular stats resulted.

For instance, statistically steve kerr is the all time best three point shooter. But I'm sure you'd disagree with the notion that he's the greatest 3pt shooter ever cuz he did play 2 years with the line moved in. The bulls have the all-time best record ever and the second to boot. Are they the greatest team ever?

 

[clonetrooper264]

While I don't think. Pippen would've ever got to 35 ppg, you must take into account the rule changes. Which really helped james stats. Also, larry hughes took on the big defensive assignments. Why the defense is never factored in is beyond me.

It just strange to me that you just post stats without delving deeper into why those particular stats resulted.

For instance, statistically steve kerr is the all time best three point shooter. But I'm sure you'd disagree with the notion that he's the greatest 3pt shooter ever cuz he did play 2 years with the line moved in. The bulls have the all-time best record ever and the second to boot. Are they the greatest team ever?

Steve Kerr is not the best shooter ever, but that 95-96 Bulls team is considered by many to be the greatest NBA team ever. NBA.com even had an article on it.

 

[eternityw]

Post the san antonio vs bulls game where stacey king gets in fight with dennis rodman..Also you have my permission to post the many games in 1994 where the bulls totally dominated the pacers.....Keep posting and don't listen to the people hating on us.....These guys should just thank you for giving readers and members a visual perspective.....Bottom line is the 94 bulls have no problem beating the 2011 bulls or 94 Rockets..I would bet my large fortune, many swiss bank accounts and my many properties on my theory...I'm that confident..

i don't have this game yet buddy, i need to get it from you first, then i can create highlights. i'll post highlights of another game today.

 

[97Bulls]

Its also interesting to see that Pippen averaged only 1 more shot attempt a game then he did through some of his prime years with Jordan...

This has alot to do with the fact that the league pace really declined starting in 94. The bulls for example took 400 less shots as a team from 93 to 94. That's almost 5 shots less per game.

 

[97Bulls]

Steve Kerr is not the best shooter ever, but that 95-96 Bulls team is considered by many to be the greatest NBA team ever. NBA.com even had an article on it.

Statistically kerr is. But you need to reread my post.

 

[houheffna]

While I don't think. Pippen would've ever got to 35 ppg, you must take into account the rule changes. Which really helped james stats. Also, larry hughes took on the big defensive assignments. Why the defense is never factored in is beyond me.

It just strange to me that you just post stats without delving deeper into why those particular stats resulted.

For instance, statistically steve kerr is the all time best three point shooter. But I'm sure you'd disagree with the notion that he's the greatest 3pt shooter ever cuz he did play 2 years with the line moved in. The bulls have the all-time best record ever and the second to boot. Are they the greatest team ever?

Rule changes don't change the facts that the stats show...

But I must say, this criticism is from a guy that posted "Pippen's scores in final games of playoff series to prove he's clutch..." And then had the resident forum's dumbass type "Ownage!", when that proved absolutely nothing concerning Pippen's ability to score in the clutch. But I digress...

1. Pippen's offensive output didn't change dramatically after the departure of Jordan...he never took over 18 shots a game, while in his best years with Jordan, he took around 17 shots. That shows that most likely what you saw was what you were getting...don't expect Pippen to put up Melo's numbers, basically because he can't score like Melo...he was a 20-22ppg guy and that was about it.

2. Again, it was obvious that Lebron stepped his game up to another level in the playoffs, he went to the ECF that year so it wasn't like it was one series. Pippen's game did not get better (looking at output). but Lebron's did. As far as rule changes go....the pressure was the same, the moments were just as important.

3. Lebron was/is a first team defensive player, the dropoff between Pippen and Lebron is not as dramatic, however, across the board there is an obvious difference in both players offensive capabilities.

If you look at the stats its obvious. I don't think rule changes affect Lebron at all. And it definitely doesn't bring Lebron down to Pip's level offensively...not at all.

Lebron is as big as Malone was and bigger than Barkley...and he is faster up and down the court than Pippen was...who stops that in 1995???

 

[houheffna]

This has alot to do with the fact that the league pace really declined starting in 94. The bulls for example took 400 less shots as a team from 93 to 94. That's almost 5 shots less per game.

That has nothing to do with it, while the pace slowed...Pippen's offensive opportunities increased. His efficiency didn't spike dramatically, and never got to Lebron's levels and his win shares were never on the level or even close to the level of Lebron...as far as offfensive output goes, they are not in the same conversation really...its kind of silly to make the comparison. Lebron's efficiency numbers are much more comparable to Jordan than to Pippen.

 

[Kush77]

Pippen is in the Top 75 now.

When I've got in arguments about Pippen with people I would hear the anti-Pip folks say (not saying anyone on here is anti-Pip, I've in worked in sports media for 10 years, with people from other towns, so I've had this argument many times) - "well, he doesn't deserve to be in the top 50 anymore." As if he's the only one, somehow.

If we redid the Top 50 all-time NBA great players - how many guys would be replaced? I agree Pippen would come off the list, but who else.

That was done in 1997. Who would be in the top 50 since 1997?

Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Allen Iverson

Other you could argue - Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Paul Pierce.

There. That should kep this thread going until well over 1000. HA HA HA HA :elephant:

We're almost there. Keep fighting the good fight for 1000!!!!!!

 

[97Bulls]

That has nothing to do with it, while the pace slowed...Pippen's offensive opportunities increased. His efficiency didn't spike dramatically, and never got to Lebron's levels and his win shares were never on the level or even close to the level of Lebron...as far as offfensive output goes, they are not in the same conversation really...its kind of silly to make the comparison. Lebron's efficiency numbers are much more comparable to Jordan than to Pippen.

I admitted pippen would never reached 35 ppg. But I don't understand how you can say a rule change that was implemented to help scoring doesn't help james. You wanna talk about silly? They then add the 3 second rule which hinders centers from standing in the paint. I just don't see how that didn't help.

And besides that, while both players are considered point forwards, pippen looked more to get players involved first. And this was something pippen was great at. All the core players scoring and FG% inproved when jordan retired. James looks to score first, then pass. It seems to me that once a player joined james, they're production was drastically hindered. Look at larry hughes, or mo williams, or antawn jamison.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You're conveniently ignoring that Scottie Pippen never had to go up against a zone defense during the bulk of his career. And defenders could camp in the lane all day long.

The year before LeBron James' rookie season, the NBA initiated the defensive three-second violation and allowed zone defenses. That surely did not help LeBron.

 

[97Bulls]

You're conveniently ignoring that Scottie Pippen never had to go up against a zone defense during the bulk of his career. And defenders could camp in the lane all day long.

The year before LeBron James' rookie season, the NBA initiated the defensive three-second violation and allowed zone defenses. That surely did not help LeBron.

Teams rarely use zone defenses. And zone is a defense constructed for bad defenders and defenders.