1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Those are the only stats I respect. You can keep the rest, especially TS%

Ok, but in terms of those stats you bolded, Lebron > Scottie.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Not so fast my friend....

Nash's two MVP Awards shouldn't have anything to do with the Malone-Duncan debate. We're talking two PF's and one PG, you can't make that comparison.

What I'm saying is that MVP awards shouldn't be used to compare two players...

 

[houheffna]

And if you and I ever agree on something then, in all likelihood, it's true. ^_^

Yeah...this is kind of like the end of the Cold War...lol. That is a good point though. Hakeem won his two rings when Jordan was out/in baseball shape.

 

[nwfisch]

Rose was certainly expected to win a title this year. How did that turn out for him?

In RE: Kobe. I notice that you don't put Larry Bird in your list of examples....does that mean Larry Bird doesn't have a 'defining' moment?

Disagree 100%.

Apparently you didn't see ESPN kiss Miami's ass all season. Not 2 3 4....

The Bucks were picked to win the Central in some circles.

 

[houheffna]

Ok, but in terms of those stats you bolded, Lebron > Scottie.

You are beating dude all upside the head with common sense...man! He can't handle it...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

It's interchangeable at best. Duncan really was a poor man's Olajuwon in my opinion. Karl Malone wasn't quite the defender or defender that Duncan was, but he is a much better scorer.

And, yes, Malone has two MVPs. But so does Nash so the argument is void.

valid point about the MVP thing...although i did look at all the multiple MVPs and many of them are all time greats(excluding nash..i dont think he should have gotten his second MVP..but its partly a product of nba being a little down in the mid 2000s imo)

i can see the olajuwon comparison to duncan and i agree that he is a little overrated..but duncan's overall ability and leadership is unquestionable..along with being the leader in winning 4 titles(you can argue robinson..but still)

duncan wasnt too shabby on offense...he is really fundamentally sound and had a bunch of 20 and 10 seasons...i think duncan's defensive advantage and malones offensive advantage negate each other..i do think malone's stats were helped a little by stockton's passing ability

 

[Glide2keva]

Fair enough.

You don't necessarily need stats to make a valid case for something. I tend to go more towards observations. But I at least try to take emotion out of the equation. and I still have plenty of ammunition to use against LeBron (who I also feel is very overrated).

:clap:

I'm a passionate fan. I could argue stats, but since they tell the whole story, and can be misused to make any player look good, I tend to use them as I see fit and not as a be all, end all to a discussion. I feel it takes the conversation away from basketball and make it more like baseball where stats are king.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

and I still have plenty of ammunition to use against LeBron (who I also feel is very overrated).

And let's not confuse the fact that I think Lebron is better than Scottie with, 'Prope thinks Lebron walks on water.' I know you, personally, are not doing that - but I am using your statement here to respond.

I don't want Lebron to ever win a title. Really respected the guy in Cleveland, don't care much for his choice to go to Miami. All that being said, denying what he has done so far in this league as nothing more than hype and him being overrated is silly, imo.

 

[Glide2keva]

Ok, but in terms of those stats you bolded, Lebron > Scottie.

True, but they played totally different roles on their teams, so the stats are again misleading.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

What I'm saying is that MVP awards shouldn't be used to compare two players...

My fault.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Disagree 100%.

Apparently you didn't see ESPN kiss Miami's ass all season. Not 2 3 4....

The Bucks were picked to win the Central in some circles.

Let me rephrase. As the playoffs were beginning there certainly was an expectation that Rose should have won a title.

 

[houheffna]

Disagree 100%.

Apparently you didn't see ESPN kiss Miami's ass all season. Not 2 3 4....

The Bucks were picked to win the Central in some circles.

I started to disagree and say Hollinger was the only one that said that, but then I GOOGLED IT...and found out that Sports Illustrated said it too. Didn't know a major sports publication made such a statement...see what fact-checking does???

 

[Glide2keva]

And let's not confuse the fact that I think Lebron is better than Scottie with, 'Prope thinks Lebron walks on water.' I know you, personally, are not doing that - but I am using your statement here to respond.

I don't want Lebron to ever win a title. Really respected the guy in Cleveland, don't care much for his choice to go to Miami. All that being said, denying what he has done so far in this league as nothing more than hype and him being overrated is silly, imo.

Well to me it is hype and empty stats.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Those are the only stats I respect. You can keep the rest, especially TS%

those cardinal stats are important..but the more advanced stats do try to pinpoint performance in a smaller window..of course they arent perfect..but they are a little more accurate than the cardinal stats due to some constants that negate variables

that said PPG,RPG,and APG are still VERY important...overall more so than the advanced stats since they are direct

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

True, but they played totally different roles on their teams, so the stats are again misleading.

Ok, but in the two years in which Scottie played the same role as Lebron only in terms of rebounding did Scottie surpass what Lebron has done. And that was to the tune of 1 more rebound per game. He didn't score as much as Lebron when he was the teams #1, and didn't have as many assists as Lebron has had.

So again, in terms of the statistics you respect, when they both shared the same role on a team, it was still Lebron > Scottie.

 

[Glide2keva]

Let me rephrase. As the playoffs were beginning there certainly was an expectation that Rose should have won a title.

Was Miami still in it?

Then the Bulls were never expected to win the title. That was Miami.

The Bulls got to exactly where their late season expectations had them the ECF.

 

[Glide2keva]

Ok, but in the two years in which Scottie played the same role as Lebron only in terms of rebounding did Scottie surpass what Lebron has done. And that was to the tune of 1 more rebound per game. He didn't score as much as Lebron when he was the teams #1, and didn't have as many assists as Lebron has had.

So again, in terms of the statistics you respect, when they both shared the same role on a team, it was still Lebron > Scottie.

That being true stat wise.

Scottie was the number 2 playing the part of the number 1. lebron was ALWAYS the number 1.

 

[Glide2keva]

those cardinal stats are important..but the more advanced stats do try to pinpoint performance in a smaller window..of course they arent perfect..but they are a little more accurate than the cardinal stats due to some constants that negate variables

that said PPG,RPG,and APG are still VERY important...overall more so than the advanced stats since they are direct

I really hate TS% because it can be made to hide certain flaws in someone floor game.

If someone shot terrible from 2, and had a good FT and hit the only 3 he took, he TS% will make it look like he had a great game when if you look at his FG%, it will tell a different story. eFG% is the same way as having a good 3-point shooting night can hid his bad shooting from 2.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

That being true stat wise.

Scottie was the number 2 playing the part of the number 1. lebron was ALWAYS the number 1.

Is that really a knock on LeBron though?

 

[Glide2keva]

Is that really a knock on LeBron though?

Just pointing out the difference.