2012 Free Agents: Who do the Cubs go after?

[DewsSox79]

We really aren't as bad as you think. Plus, Fielder completely changes the way this offense works.

you are right on, you are worse.

 

[Rice Cube]

Yeah...the Cubs just aren't that good.

 

[ZAN]

I think we realistically spend 25-30 million this offseason, instead of all 40. Realistically, I think we will re-sign Ramirez for less. There won't be a market for him.

I think we make a play for Grady Sizemore, as well. Call me crazy, but he seems like the type of guy the Cubs would go after to give fans that false hope of "does this guy still have it".

Ludwick would also be a possibility in one of the corner outfield spots, though I can see him going to the AL.

_______(all of the above are the spend low and give false hope options)_________

I'm in the camp that thinks we need to go hard after Pujols/Fielder. I'd like to think Fielder and a starter could give the Cubs a glimmer of hope while the kids develop around Fielder's power. We need a 3rd starter bad.


If we are in overspend mode, I'd love to see Edwin Jackson and Prince Fielder wearing blue next year.

 

[Rick]

I think we make a play for Grady Sizemore, as well.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think we make a play for Grady Sizemore, as well. Call me crazy, but he seems like the type of guy the Cubs would go after to give fans that false hope of "does this guy still have it".

 

[Captain Obvious]

Don't bother arguing with Captain Obvious, he knows everything.


and yes, the Cubs are as bad as everyone thinks. The Brewers have been to the playoffs one time with Fielder on their active roster so what makes you think that he would change the entire dynamic of the Cubs' offense? Not to mention, will the Cubs be able to even sign him in the offseason? I'm not so sure.

I'm not trying to start shit but I've read a ton of Captain Obvious' posts on this message board and the guy is a mini Dan Bernstein who constantly questions other people's thoughts/opinions and thinks he's always right. Just my objective view. I have nothing personal against C.O., I'm sure he's a nice guy.













Why do you keep saying "we"? Are you a member of the Chicago Cubs organization?

Well the Brewers problem has been pitching. Since 06, the Brewers have only been drastically below average offensively once, which was in 06. Plus, how can you say that he won't change the offense based off of another team's playoff appearances? That's just ignorant.

how so?

and if fielder is such an impact player(especially in the wins column)....why have the brewers not had great success with him...and its not like he isnt the only good player on the team either..

Because they haven't been able to pitch. You can't pitch, you can't win.

aging and/or underperforming veterans(soto,fukudome,a ram,pena etc.) and younger players that are still learning the game offensively and defensively....

not to mention we are in the bottom in the NL in most pitching categories...now of course you can attribute that partially to the fact that our rotation has been hit pretty hard by the injury bug...but lets not act like we have a stud rotation...dempster is aging(still a good player but his performances seem to be either great or very bad)...zambrano is a good pitcher but still has mental err "issues"...getting garza back is big...but the cubs need one of those three guys or someone else(maybe through trade or free agency) to step up as an ace which is needed for any franchise to succeed especially in the postseason....

Fuku, ARam, and Pena all can be gone. We don't have a stud rotation, but we do have a very good one. Why do we need an ace? We have 5 pitchers, when healthy, that are all very close in terms of talent. They are all 2 or 3s.

that is priceless right there. Surrounding Fielder with garbage really doesnt do much for the "offense"




Correct, big market team....but if you would put the glass of kool aid down you will see the ownership is in a bit of trouble.

Dodgers are a big market team as well, doesnt mean they can spend due to their own financial trouble.

think before you post.

Surrounded by garbage? Interesting, considering Soriano is still right around where he has been in his career, with his bat. In terms of wOBA. Fukudome? He and his .401 OBP say hi. Ramirez? For as bad as he has been, he is still above average. Barney? Yeah, he's garbage. Soto? His season is nearly identical to his 09 season. It's just a BABIP matter. So I'm not sure what garbage you're referring to.

Ownership is not in trouble lol. We're in debt because they just bought the team. That always happens. You even posted the thread that says the Cubs have money to spend.

 

[Rick]

how can you say that he won't change the offense based off of another team's playoff appearances? That's just ignorant.

What are you talking about? I used that as an example. The point I was trying to make is that if the Cubs signed Fielder, they still aren't going to be a contender unless they fix the other problems the team has.


I'm not having a pissing match with you like the one you had with DewSox about a month or so ago for a few reasons. 1.) You can't argue with people who think they know everything, 2.) I don't want to spend the time to do it and 3.) the 2011 Chicago Cubs aren't worth an extended argument.

 

[Captain Obvious]

What are you talking about? I used that as an example. The point I was trying to make is that if the Cubs signed Fielder, they still aren't going to be a contender unless they fix the other problems the team has.


I'm not having a pissing match with you like the one you had with DewSox about a month or so ago for a few reasons. 1.) You can't argue with people who think they know everything, 2.) I don't want to spend the time to do it and 3.) the 2011 Chicago Cubs aren't worth an extended argument.

I use stats for my arguments. I'm sorry if you think that that is me knowing everything lol.

Fielder fixes the biggest problem on this team -- The offense. A superstar is what this team needs, it makes the other players so much better because they don't have to carry the team.

 

[daddies3angels]

I use stats for my arguments. I'm sorry if you think that that is me knowing everything lol.

Fielder fixes the biggest problem on this team -- The offense. A superstar is what this team needs, it makes the other players so much better because they don't have to carry the team.

i agree with this...i think A-Ram would be much better if he felt like he dont have to be the guy.

 

[Rick]

I use stats for my arguments. I'm sorry if you think that that is me knowing everything lol.

Fielder fixes the biggest problem on this team -- The offense. A superstar is what this team needs, it makes the other players so much better because they don't have to carry the team.

How much better did Sammy Sosa make the Cubs?


Here, since you're such a stat guy...

From 1997-2002

1997 -Sosa: .251 BA 119 RBI's 36 HRs - Cubs team record: 68-94

1998 - Sosa: .308 BA 158 RBI's 66 HRs - Cubs team record: 90-73, swept by Atlanta in the NLDS

1999 - Sosa: .288 BA 141 RBI's 63 HRs - Cubs team record: 67-95

2000 - Sosa: .320 BA 138 RBI's 50 HRs - Cubs team record: 65-97

2001 - Sosa: .328 BA 160 RBI's 64 HRs - Cubs team record: 88-74, no playoff appearance

2002 - Sosa: .288 BA 108 RBI's 49 HRs - Cubs team record: 67-95



We all know those numbers are steroid fueled and Sosa struck out a ton but those are beyond superstar numbers... and only one playoff appearance, one other season over .500 and the rest, 90+ losses in a six year span

So I'll ask you, how much better did Sosa make the other guys on those teams?

You're braindead if you think one guy can carry a team through an entire season of baseball.

 

[Captain Obvious]

How much better did Sammy Sosa make the Cubs?


Here, since you're such a stat guy...

From 1997-2002

1997 -Sosa: .251 BA 119 RBI's 36 HRs - Cubs team record: 68-94

1998 - Sosa: .308 BA 158 RBI's 66 HRs - Cubs team record: 90-73, swept by Atlanta in the NLDS

1999 - Sosa: .288 BA 141 RBI's 63 HRs - Cubs team record: 67-95

2000 - Sosa: .320 BA 138 RBI's 50 HRs - Cubs team record: 65-97

2001 - Sosa: .328 BA 160 RBI's 64 HRs - Cubs team record: 88-74, no playoff appearance

2002 - Sosa: .288 BA 108 RBI's 49 HRs - Cubs team record: 67-95



We all know those numbers are steroid fueled and Sosa struck out a ton but those are beyond superstar numbers... and only one playoff appearance, one other season over .500 and the rest, 90+ losses in a six year span

So I'll ask you, how much better did Sosa make the other guys on those teams?

You're braindead if you think one guy can carry a team through an entire season of baseball.

Now look at the players he had around him.

He never had a Soriano, a Soto, or a Castro. It was him. The Cubs have the role players, they just need the man in the middle to bring it all together and perhaps another role player or two. Players like Soriano and Ramirez(assuming he is back) that have the ability to carry the team is really going to help Fielder out when he signs with the Cubs.

 

[Rice Cube]

Captain Obvious seems not to realize that the players that he is relying on to bolster the offense around Fielder are getting older, are injury-prone, are inconsistent, and are probably on the decline if not already. Jim Hendry is a bit of an idiot but even he wouldn't try to bring Ramirez back. Sometimes players just fall off a cliff. It'd be very hard to contend with this "core" unless Castro starts hitting for even more power (he still has the potential since he's only 21) and the other guys play out of their minds. Otherwise you're talking about a team full of slow singles-hitters who don't know how to take a walk...and that basically means zero protection for Fielder in the lineup.

 

[Rick]

Now look at the players he had around him.

He never had a Soriano, a Soto, or a Castro. It was him. The Cubs have the role players, they just need the man in the middle to bring it all together and perhaps another role player or two. Players like Soriano and Ramirez(assuming he is back) that have the ability to carry the team is really going to help Fielder out when he signs with the Cubs.

You have too much faith in these guys, Castro is the only one with potential.


Soriano has been a huge disappointment as a Cub........and my god what the hell are you talking about regarding Ramirez?!?!?! He CANNOT carry a team. He proved that when Derrek Lee went down with that wrist injury in 2006!!



Back to Sosa for a second, Sosa still hit 30+ HR's in both 2003 and 2004 with 103 RBI's in '03 and 80 RBI's in '04. Clearly not as dominating as his numbers from 1997-2002 but he had a better supporting cast in 2003 with Alou, Ramirez, Lofton, Grudzielanek and Karros. He had an even better cast in 2004 with Derrek Lee, Garciaparra, Michael Barrett and Todd Walker and no playoff appearance that year.


The Cubs need a well rounded team not just a superstar, if they can sign a superstar and still be willing to put a solid cast around him, then I'm all in (no pun intended White Sox fans). Fielder would not have a solid cast around him with guys like Soto, Soriano and the 2011 version of Aramis Ramirez.

 

[Rice Cube]

As an aside, I think it should be noted that RBIs are contextual and pretty much dependent on your teammates getting on base for you to drive them in. Fielder's RBI numbers likely drop unless guys like Barney and Castro figure out how to take a walk or two...their OBPs are pretty sad.

 

[Rick]

As an aside, I think it should be noted that RBIs are contextual and pretty much dependent on your teammates getting on base for you to drive them in. Fielder's RBI numbers likely drop unless guys like Barney and Castro figure out how to take a walk or two...their OBPs are pretty sad.

and Sosa had a ton of RBI's in his heyday and the Cubs still sucked...

 

[DewsSox79]

Well the Brewers problem has been pitching. Since 06, the Brewers have only been drastically below average offensively once, which was in 06. Plus, how can you say that he won't change the offense based off of another team's playoff appearances? That's just ignorant.


Because they haven't been able to pitch. You can't pitch, you can't win.



Fuku, ARam, and Pena all can be gone. We don't have a stud rotation, but we do have a very good one. Why do we need an ace? We have 5 pitchers, when healthy, that are all very close in terms of talent. They are all 2 or 3s.



Surrounded by garbage? Interesting, considering Soriano is still right around where he has been in his career, with his bat. In terms of wOBA. Fukudome? He and his .401 OBP say hi. Ramirez? For as bad as he has been, he is still above average. Barney? Yeah, he's garbage. Soto? His season is nearly identical to his 09 season. It's just a BABIP matter. So I'm not sure what garbage you're referring to.

Ownership is not in trouble lol. We're in debt because they just bought the team. That always happens. You even posted the thread that says the Cubs have money to spend.

They have money to spend sure, it isnt going to be 120 million like what poodski says. Recent information has come out about the state of the ownership, I have broken down all sectors of his finances that are known to the public. Il have the charts done in about 3 days or so.

And when you buy a business you are not automatically in debt.

And wow, you are one of the biggest kool aid drinking homers around. Wow! if you think that surrounding fielder with Soriano,Soto, and Ramirez is a good thing and an instant contender you are delusional and once again will be kicked in the nuts by the cubs when they dont win.

thats just saying the cubs will get fielder which I will bet they wont. Just like they didnt get peavy, brian roberts (twice) and Adam dunn. You sir are one of those fans that the ricketts will love, it is too bad you are so young and dont have a lot of money because you would be the idiot going out there spending your money on something that isnt real.

 

[Rice Cube]

So...you're saying the Cubs are probably going to have a revenue problem?

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

So...you're saying the Cubs are probably going to have a revenue problem?

There's no revenue problem and there certainly won't be if they bring in some guys that put more butts in seats and sell merch.

 

[Rice Cube]

I wonder how many Garza and Pena jerseys they've sold so far.

They probably sold a few Darwin Barney jerseys because he's scrappy.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

I wonder how many Garza and Pena jerseys they've sold so far.

They probably sold a few Darwin Barney jerseys because he's scrappy.

lol

I just remember the whole Soriano stuff.. seemed like nearly everyone that was at a Cubs game had a shirt or jersey the first two years of his contract.