2013-14 NHL Season Discussion

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Variable

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Brayden Schenn's career might be on the line tonight, playing after getting hit into the boards head first in his last game, collapsing multiple times trying to get off the ice, not remembering the hit and not getting tested for a concussion afterwards.</p>


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Why? Because it's the NHL. And because it's Philly.</p>
 

CLWolf81

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="217482" data-time="1387488524">
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Well he is a good defensive forward, but I'm not paying almost 6 million to a defense first winger that, other than that stretch of games he had, struggles to score. Don't care how much the cap is going up.</p>
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He would likely be on the 3rd line on a team like ours.... Even then, that's pushing it. I wouldn't pay $6M for that. </p>


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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="roshinaya" data-cid="217456" data-time="1387473994">
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Blues fans would tell you that Steen is great two-way player!! Well worth the money.</p>
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They would also tell you about how desperate they are for keeping their 'star players'.... not that I mind if they prefer their future be around a career 3rd liner. Even with how good the team is, they still can't sell out their games. I expected overpayment here, and they are doing that for many years. </p>
 

JOVE23

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="217492" data-time="1387493404">
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Brayden Schenn's career might be on the line tonight, playing after getting hit into the boards head first in his last game, collapsing multiple times trying to get off the ice, not remembering the hit and not getting tested for a concussion afterwards.</p>


 </p>


Why? Because it's the NHL. And because it's Philly.</p>
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how the **** are they getting away with that?</p>
 

Variable

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It's a failure all across the board. Everywhere. From the league, to the team, to the player. The league didn't even suspend Wilson for that hit, and they didn't do or say anything about Schenn playing in the game. And forget about Caps coach/moron Adam Oates (and Ovi for that matter) thinking the hit was clean and shouldn't have even been a penalty, fucking Paul Holmgren, the GM of the Flyers, said Schenn shared blame in the hit. Along with the fact they basically went on Schenn saying he was good to go and not testing him for a concussion anyways. Tough to fathom the stupidity in that organization.</p>


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And because of that,  I can kinda understand the player failure part of of it, Schenn not insisting on being tested or sitting out. Look at who he's playing for and their history with an iconic player who held himself out of playing due to injury. And look at their reaction to the hit, doesn't seem like they changed all too much, still got the good ole' boys mentality (as well as the good ole boys themselves) in management. Just bad all around.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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I was surprised Wilson didn't get suspended, but I also think Schenn is at fault on the play as well. Number one rule on the wall is "don't turn your back and put yourself in a vulnerable position". This wouldn't of been as bad had Schenn bent his knees and braced for the hit and not peeled around. He doesn't, and as he tries to pivot his own momentum trying to spin away while being hit throws him head first. Had he taken the hit on the shoulder which Wilson was going for, he would of been thrown into the boards shoulder first which is way less damage and more padding. But since Wilson was aiming for the side of his shoulder and Schenn started to spin right before impact, he connects with his back shoulder which along with Schenns momentum already puts him head first.


Does Wilson deserve a suspension? I don't think so. The refs got the call right on the play and he did his time (Philly scored 2 on the ensuing PP). Does Schenn need to play smarter next time? **** yes.
 

Variable

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That's just the usual victim blaming that is rampant in the NHL with hits like this. Schenn was in the middle of a board battle and getting a loose puck, unless he has eyes in the back of his head, he's not seeing Wilson charging at him from the blue line on in as that is happening. He saw him for a split second before he got hit, nothing could've been done at that point. All the NHL has been talking about is not taking liberties with a player who is in a defenseless position. To know better than that.  That's exactly the type of hit they say they want to get rid of, that utterly devastating hit close and into the boards, that extremely dangerous hit where the HITTER has to know better.  And here's yet again a chance for them to prove what they say they are so concerned about cracking down on......and they fail. Yet again. Because Philly scored on the power play should make no difference in the supplemental discipline.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="217569" data-time="1387578594">


That's just the usual victim blaming that is rampant in the NHL with hits like this. Schenn was in the middle of a board battle and getting a loose puck, unless he has eyes in the back of his head, he's not seeing Wilson charging at him from the blue line on in as that is happening. He saw him for a split second before he got hit, nothing could've been done at that point. All the NHL has been talking about is not taking liberties with a player who is in a defenseless position. To know better than that. That's exactly the type of hit they say they want to get rid of, that utterly devastating hit close and into the boards, that extremely dangerous hit where the HITTER has to know better. And here's yet again a chance for them to prove what they say they are so concerned about cracking down on......and they fail. Yet again.</p></blockquote>


So Schenn is not at fault for the result at all?


What do you suggest Wilson does next time?
 

Variable

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No, he was going to get destroyed into the boards no matter what when he came out with the puck in that board battle.  There was nothing he could've done.</p>


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I suggest Wilson not fucking charge a player into the boards. He has to let up. Has to when the player is in that position. That was one of the worst cases of charging I've seen this year. He has to take into account where the guy he is hitting is at and where he's going to go. In this case, head first right into the fucking boards.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="217571" data-time="1387578894">

No, he was going to get destroyed into the boards no matter what when he came out with the puck in that board battle.  There was nothing he could've done.

 

I suggest Wilson not fucking charge a player into the boards. He has to let up. Has to when the player is in that position. That was one of the worst cases of charging I've seen this year. He has to take into account where the guy he is hitting is at and where he's going to go. In this case, head first right into the fucking boards.</p></blockquote>


Do you watch Shanahans video? Did you hear him clearly say how it wasnt a charge because Wilson only got one stride in when he locked on to Schenn? Schenn didn't even have full control until Wilson hits the faceoff circle. He was finishing a change and getting into he play. Schenn didn't have the puck when Wilson entered the zone. He was skating in to help along the boards. He did let up after to read the play, stepped around Simmonds, and took only one full stride.


To be honest, had he actually "taken into account where the guy he is hitting is about to go" (your words. Not mine), he would of drilled him between the numbers.


Last second Schenn spins away and he SEES Wilson coming with 5 feet to spare. He needs to know he's about to get hit and brace himself, but he decided to turn away. His fault not Wilson.
 

Variable

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Had he drilled right between the numbers, that would've been illegal as well. I did watch Shanhan's explanation.....and that's hardly the first time he's been wrong in them. Hardly. You can't demolish a guy like that into the boards. That's one of the key types of hits they SAY they want to take out of the game, and there it was on full display and they do nothing to send a message that it's the wrong kind of hit to put on a player in that position.</p>


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Schenn had maybe, maybe, half a second to do something, anything. It wasn't going to really matter, he was still ending up in the boards no matter what kind of move he did from the time he saw Wilson to the time Wilson hit him. And Wilson was going to hit him regardless of whether in that split second Schenn turned his head and saw him. You understand that your saying Schenn not having full control of the puck until Wilson hits the faceoff circle isn't helping your argument right? That hit was happening no matter what. There was no way Wilson wasn't going to hit him had Schenn not turned, he was going way too fast. And ultimately that's the point here that people are missing that are putting any kind of blame on Schenn for "choosing" to get hit that way. Wilson didn't give a ****.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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I don't think I've ever heard the NHL say they want to take that out. It wasn't a head shot, it wasn't charging. Wilson wasn't going in to make a hit until he's in the faceoff circle. He was heading down after a line change to help out in the corner.


There would of been less damage had Schenn not turned his back. I think Schenn is to share some of the blame on that. To say he's innocent in how the final result played out is asinine.


Again, what do you suggest Wilson do? He let up after he his the faceoff circle and took one stride towards Schenn added getting around Simmonds, it's not like he skated a dead sprint towards him, he did in fact coast in the circle. What do you want him to do?
 

Variable

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Shanahan waffles back and forth with that bullshit "hitter/hittee responsibility"  idea of his in just about every goddamn review he has, he's become a joke almost as much as Campbell was, which is incredible and something I thought I'd never see. So no, it's not exactly  a strong argument using  "Well Shanahan said it was or wasn't this, so he must be right.." just because it confirms your personal feelings on this.</p>


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Wilson had that choice from blue line on in, he saw what was developing, a lot more than Schenn did. And what he saw was an opprotuinity for a crushing hit, to make an impression, not just to go in on the forecheck. Schenn can't do anything in that situation. He never saw it until the last nanosecond. Either way his ass is going into the boards, Tom Wilson is, what, 6'4? He towers over him. He was going into the boards no matter what move he made in the fraction of a second he had to attempt to make a move, let alone the "right" move. So there's no defense here in that if only Schenn would've made the right move, it wouldn't be nearly as bad. It's crazy we can't even agree that it was charging, but even if it wasn't charging, it's still a hit you cannot make under those circumstances. Unless you've been living under a rock, the league has been saying for years, they want to better  protect players who are in defenseless positions getting hit and to make it clear that it can't be tolerated. And this was one of them. Another one they failed in handling. </p>


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Remember when we were talking about cutting down on dangerous hits? How the league has to remove it's head from it's ass and actually start suspending guys in order to curb their behavior so they don't do things like that again? How important it was? 'Member that? As long as the league continues to victim blame in situations like this and due in part because of it, get the hitter off the hook from discipline, it's never going to happen. As long as they continue to deflect blame, even if just a little, to the victims of hits that are choices of players like Tom Wilson deciding to launch another player in a defenseless position into the boards like that, nothing is going to change, players won't stop doing that.</p>


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Of course Wilson is going to say he only made the decision to hit Schenn at a later point (which still shouldn't matter, because you still can't make that hit). Just like Neal is going to say his knee to the head of Marchand was completely incidental. If it suits their purposes to lie, they'll lie. Got nothing to lose at that point. This is a kid who's not playing a whole hell of a lot of minutes, he's a rookie not afraid to dish out big hits playing on the 4th line with not a whole lot of scoring opportunities trying to make an impression. Those factors alone make for a potential recipe for disaster. And going by Oates' reaction of him not even seeing it as a penalty and as a clean hit, it sure looks like he made a favorable one and combined with the NHL's ruling on this along with his coach's encouragement, I wouldn't doubt  he learned nothing and that a similar incident involving him crops up later in the season.</p>


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So  congrats NHL, for erring on the side of stupidity once again.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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You still didn't answer the question, what was Wilson supposed to do?


Schenn didn't even have solid possession till Wilson was at the dot, the puck was still in the scrum before he even got to the faceoff circle. If you want I'll bust out my coaches eye app on my iPad and draw it up for you.


And Shanahan was wrong, on a forecheck the closest guy to the puck becomes F1 as it had moved from the corner. That meant the forward in the corner, judging by the route Schenn was taking the puck, would eventually be F3. You claim you played high school hockey so what's the job of F1 on the forecheck?
 

Variable

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I have answered it, numerous times, he's not supposed to make that kind of hit. Not under those circumstances. Schenn not having "solid" possession makes no difference, if anything it makes it worse, you can't hit a guy like that when he's in that position. I don't know why you bring that up, that's not helping you in this. That just means Schenn was even more preoccupied with fighting for/getting the puck than even I'm making him out to be and couldn't be aware of Wilson or anyone else barreling down on him, which he wasn't until the last fraction of a second. And again, by that time, he was going violently into the boards no matter what move he made.</p>


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Tthe  X' and O's of the game have little bearing in why he can't make that hit.  I can't even really remember, that was over 14 years ago when I played, haven't played since. I want to say F1 is supposed to skate to whoever has the puck, but I honestly don't remember hardly any of it and I wouldn't know if it even applies to this play. And again, it doesn't really matter. I know it doesn't say he's supposed to destroy a defenseless player into the boards. Whatever he's supposed to do, he's not supposed to do that.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="217615" data-time="1387754954">


I have answered it, numerous times, he's not supposed to make that kind of hit. Not under those circumstances. Schenn not having "solid" possession makes no difference, if anything it makes it worse, you can't hit a guy like that when he's in that position. I don't know why you bring that up, that's not helping you in this. That just means Schenn was even more preoccupied with fighting for/getting the puck than even I'm making him out to be and couldn't be aware of Wilson or anyone else barreling down on him, which he wasn't until the last fraction of a second. And again, by that time, he was going violently into the boards no matter what move he made.


Tthe X' and O's of the game have little bearing in why he can't make that hit. I can't even really remember, that was over 14 years ago when I played, haven't played since. I want to say F1 is supposed to skate to whoever has the puck, but I honestly don't remember hardly any of it and I wouldn't know if it even applies to this play. And again, it doesn't really matter. I know it doesn't say he's supposed to destroy a defenseless player into the boards. Whatever he's supposed to do, he's not supposed to do that.</p></blockquote>


Jesus you are an idiot, that's not what I said.


Schenn didn't have possession until Wilson was near the dot. That's implying that he didn't travel a long distance JUST to wreck Schenn. He was on his way to help out in the corner as F2. F1 is supposed to take the body, F2 is to go for the puck. Because his role was switched, Wilson was now F1 when Schenn got control of the puck and was skating away.


There is no other play there to be made. If he slows down, Schenn takes the puck behind his net and starts the breakout.


Next time, tell Schenn not to spin away before he gets hit. He only becomes defenseless when he turns away from the hit instead of bending his knees, and bracing for contact. You cannot say (not that you have, but for your next objection) he didn't have time to do that because he obviously had time to start turning away. You don't put yourself in a vulnerable position; They teach that shit in Bantam checking clinics. That's why people are saying Schenn is part of the blame.
 

Variable

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He was getting hit into the boards regardless. It didn't matter what he did with the split second he had. With the kind of speed Wilson had built up, it was going to be a hit into the boards no matter what happened, whether he braced or not, Wilson is a much bigger player. The accountability falls on Wilson, from the entire time he skates towards Schenn up until the last half second, Schenn doesn't see him and Wilson knows that he doesn't see him. He knows he's right next to the boards.  What was he going to do if Schenn hadn't turned his head for that briefest of moments the fraction of a second before Wilson made contact? Somehow not hit him? Bullshit. That's why blaming Schenn for any of this doesn't make sense. It was going to be a bad hit no matter what.</p>


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This is text book victim blaming in order to excuse the action and not have to actually act on something, which the NHL is very adept at.</p>
 

Shantz My Pants

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Schenn made the play worse by turning after he saw Wilson! It's not fucking rocket science. It's something that is taught when hitting is introduced. He should of bent his knees and braced for the check. Was he still going to get hit hard? Yes. Was he going to get thrown into the boards? Yes. Who knows what the extent would of been. Probably shoulder first and knocked onto his ass. Schenn made it worse by turning his body and leaning down which caused him to go head first into the boards.


You can either accept that Schenn made the play worse or not. I haven't seen anybody besides you argue he did everything right. The fact of the matter is everyone who is important has said he did and everything that is taught since checking is allowed in youth hockey says you don't put yourself in a bad situation.
 

Variable

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="217636" data-time="1387810325">
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Schenn made the play worse by turning after he saw Wilson! It's not fucking rocket science. It's something that is taught when hitting is introduced. He should of bent his knees and braced for the check. Was he still going to get hit hard? Yes. Was he going to get thrown into the boards? Yes. Who knows what the extent would of been. Probably shoulder first and knocked onto his ass. Schenn made it worse by turning his body and leaning down which caused him to go head first into the boards.


You can either accept that Schenn made the play worse or not. I haven't seen anybody besides you argue he did everything right.
The fact of the matter is everyone who is important has said he did and everything that is taught since checking is allowed in youth hockey says you don't put yourself in a bad situation.</p>
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Trev, Trev.....because you're talking about a fraction of a second. From him seeing Wilson to contact, I don't expect anyone to be able to take any move that is considered the "right" one in that frame of time, especially with how fast Wilson was coming at him, which he probably couldn't even tell (or remember for that matter) himself for as fast as it happened. Watching it in slow motion isn't going to convey that. He was barely, BARELY able to somewhat turn. If anything that is more of just a flat out instinct than knowingly putting yourself in a worse position. There was no time to make it what people like you are making it out to be like, like he was able to completely turn his back to him, that he showed his numbers to Wilson. It WAS shoulder to shoulder already. Even the all knowing Shanahan said that and also, maybe you missed it, but he called it charging as well.</p>


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The thing you  somehow can't understand is that Wilson cannot even attempt to make that kind of a hit in the first place. It wasn't acceptable to begin with. Whether Schenn saw him for that millisecond or not. That's why you suspend him. So people understand, that you can't hit players in a defenseless position along the boards like that. You're arguing that the time frame  of less than half a second that Schenn had is what changes a player from being in a defenseless position to being fully aware of everything happening around him and fully accountable for "choosing" the way he gets hit and I don't know what else to tell you at this point other than to read this sentence out loud to yourself to hear how ridiculous it sounds. You're going to have to re-define a lot of past dirty hits and headshots and going into the future as well if that's true, because players will be able to get away with a shit ton more if an ignorant,  dangerous precedent like that is upheld.</p>


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The NHL will do just about anything in their power to NOT have to take action or to not take as drastic an action that is applicable to a player doing stupid shit like this. That was evident well before this. So to go on anything that they say is right or wrong in matters like this is pointless. And how is it I have a feeling if that were someone like Kane, you'd have a totally different take on this.</p>
 
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