2014 Offseason Thread

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pmikezus" data-cid="232897" data-time="1403668016">
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Well refusing to trade a mod round pick (what TT is) for a Selke winning 29 year old center seems to be under valuing</p>
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 </p>


Might be the weakest argument of them all. Congrats.</p>

 

[the canadian dream]

PMX hates prospects. Hated Pirri and now hates TT.</p>


 </p>


Prospects probably tattle on him after he tickles them.</p>

 

[PatrickShart]

That's all he is. He put up Granlund type numbers in Helsinki. Don't trade him!!

 

[the canadian dream]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pmikezus" data-cid="232902" data-time="1403668629">
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That's all he is. He put up Brahmins type numbers in Helsinki. Don't trade him!!</p>
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He royally kicked ass at the world juniors. I know that's really nothing to base much on but there are just certain kids that stand out at the juniors who go onto doing the same in the nhl. Just something about that Finnish twat that I love and makes me personally hesitant to see him moved. Full package kid and he has a good hockey name. Which I base most of my prospect judgement on. If a name doesn't look right on a back of a hockey jersey then yah not worth keeping around....BUT..if that name looks good....winner winner chicken dinner. </p>

 

[PatrickShart]

Flip Forsberg did too


And I'd bet Nashville would trade him in a second to get kesler

 

[the canadian dream]

Forsberg looks dumb on the back of a hockey jersey. always has and always will. I'll give you this.</p>


 </p>


Hawks can deal prospects as they are still in the now to win and keep winning for a few years for sure.</p>


Preds need all the prospects they can collect.</p>


 </p>


So yah Hawks could trade off TT in the now and be okay (although I think it hampers their future)</p>


Preds would be crazy to trade Forsberg for a vet that does nothing to increase their odds of winning in the now.</p>


 </p>


So I get the argument. But **** you just like Pirri dont go fucking with my favorite prospects because that just means someone is getting a taint punch. Go dish off Leddy and some other ******* but don't touch TT god damn it!!! I want TT around when the Hawks are average and are a .500 team in 5 years. Gives me something to care about. Eventually this team is going to be in a position where their prospect depth sucks balls due to weak draft positioning. It's already starting to happen in my mind. Im not big on many of the Hawks prospects right now...just let me keep TT you son of a *****.</p>

 

[PatrickShart]

As long as Mark Kelly is in the draft team..Hawks will be fine


And Ryan Hartman is going to be good

 

[PatrickShart]

Don't forget the legendary Jeremy Morin

 

[Ton]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="232881" data-time="1403665793">
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All he needs to be is good. That's all he needs to be. He doesn't need to be leading the league in points, he doesn't need to win awards. Just be good. I'll take mostly an entire career worth of "good" in Teuvo vs. at the most 2 years of Ryan Kesler before he moves on because he cannot be afforded (and would you want to spend that kind of cap space at that point on him anyway?) and you'll be left looking for or waiting for that "elusive" second line center again. Kesler is the short term fix at the expense of the guy you've been looking around for, what, almost a decade now?</p>
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 </p>


So now Teuvo has an entire career as a Blackhawk ahead of him, does it include a jersey retirement? lol</p>


 </p>


At some point, if Teravainen is as good as he's suppose to be, he will become expensive too. I doubt he spends his entire career here. I'd be happy if the Hawks had a good 4 years out of him -- not including the bumps he'll face in the first two years of his career.</p>


 </p>


The bottom line is, the Hawks have a shitload of centers. Teravainen very well could be the best of the bunch, he's certainly the most talented. But we're talking about two years of our top two lines with Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Saad, Kesler, and Kane. That sounds good to me.</p>


 </p>


Remember Kevin Hayes is still Blackhawks property and is a damn good center himself. If the Hawks can convince him to sign, that would be huge.</p>

 

[Variable]

That big payday probably won't come until 5 years later at which point who knows what's transpired with Seabrook, Hossa, Sharp will be gone at that point, the cap rising,Bickell ,etc the list goes on. But you'll know you have a decent player at that spot during that time, especially if he will be getting paid quite a bit at that point. It means you were right to keep him over trading him away for maybe two years of Kesler and then being right back in the same position.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Kesler is a phenomenal center, especially at his ability to play both ways on the ice. That said, a team like Vancouver is either going to be in a full on rebuild or go at least half way. There's no way they give up a guy like Kesler who is a top 10 center in the league, and not try and get premium for him. If Kesler wants to come to the Hawks, we'd almost certainly have to give up TT. Are the Hawks that desperate for a 2nd line C that giving up one of the best prospects in the world for a guy who has 2 years left on his contract and has injury issues despite being as good as he is? That's the dilemma the Hawks are facing and it's tough. While I really like TT, I agree with Ton that he's only a prospect and not proven like Kesler. On the other hand, if TT plays in Rockford this year and continues developing we'd have 5 years at least with him at a cheaper rate than Kesler for the next 6 seasons. Plus he's younger and would be just entering his prime years.


In my opinion, especially with the salary cap, I say you pass on Kesler and see if Richards will come here for a year cheap. While he's not Kesler, he's still a very good offensively player and will be the best center Kane has ever played with except for Toews.

 

[PatrickShart]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="232917" data-time="1403701769">
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That big payday probably won't come until 5 years later at which point who knows what's transpired with Seabrook, Hossa, Sharp will be gone at that point, the cap rising,Bickell ,etc the list goes on. But you'll know you have a decent player at that spot during that time, especially if he will be getting paid quite a bit at that point. It means you were right to keep him over trading him away for maybe two years of Kesler and then being right back in the same position.</p>
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 </p>


So..."you'll know you have a decent player" - based on 3 nhl games.  And "maybe two years of Kesler" - when he's 100% signed for 2 years?</p>


 </p>


Maybe...Kesler signs an extension and you get him longer?</p>


 </p>


Here's facts.</p>


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Kesler would immediately become the second most important forward the Hawks have behind Toews.  He becomes the only other forward the Hawks have that can play in every single situation.  Will TT?  Nope.</p>


 </p>


He's a point producer.  TT? Maybe</p>


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He's one of the best defensive center iceman (Selke winner). Immediately will be on the PK.  Take every important RH faceoffs.  TT?  Nope</p>


 </p>


Can play on the PP.  Half boards (like he did in the Olympics) and Front of net (like he does for VAN).  TT?  Perimeter</p>


 </p>


Immediately has on and off ice chemistry with you most skilled forward.  TT?  Maybe</p>


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All the hard minutes Toews has...can now be cut in half by having a second center that can physically handle everything Toews does.  Thats a fact based on someone that has done it consistantly in the NHL. </p>


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Let him go to ANA.  Let me know how the matchup is when they have Getzlaf vs Toews then Kesler vs TT.  Or STL....Backes and Kesler.  We saw LA with Kopitar and Carter - 2 more big centers.</p>


 </p>


And when Toews takes his 8-10 games off due to getting hurt (like every year..because he takes the heaviest load of centers on the Hawks, because no one else can)...Hawks will then have TT, Shaw and Kruger - all 5'10 centers - to fill in.</p>


 </p>


But 4 years down the road, they may have a good player.</p>

 

[PatrickShart]

 Kesler's injury history is blown way out of proportion</p>


 </p>


He missed 12 games with his shoulder surgery and then 19 gms - both in the shortened season - with a broken foot.  In the other 8 seasons, he missed a total of 12 games.</p>

 

[Forklift]

Vancouver has to ask for the sky for Kesler - not only are the Hawks asking them to move him within the Conference, but a Sharp/Leddy/pick package for Ryan Kesler essentially puts a big red bow on the Stanley Cup for the Hawks.</p>


 </p>


Plus, TT really does need time in the AHL, at least a half season - this buys him time in Rockford to get more accustomed to the North American game, and when he gets here his role as 3C is a more comfortable fit for a rookie.</p>


 </p>


Wherever Kesler winds up landing, he'll be there before Friday night. I'd prefer it be here.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tony DeFrancesco" data-cid="232914" data-time="1403692797">
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So now Teuvo has an entire career as a Blackhawk ahead of him, does it include a jersey retirement? lol</p>


 </p>


At some point, if Teravainen is as good as he's suppose to be, he will become expensive too. I doubt he spends his entire career here. I'd be happy if the Hawks had a good 4 years out of him -- not including the bumps he'll face in the first two years of his career.</p>


 </p>


The bottom line is, the Hawks have a shitload of centers. Teravainen very well could be the best of the bunch, he's certainly the most talented. But we're talking about two years of our top two lines with Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Saad, Kesler, and Kane. That sounds good to me.</p>


 </p>


Remember Kevin Hayes is still Blackhawks property and is a damn good center himself. If the Hawks can convince him to sign, that would be huge.</p>
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The Blackhawks center depth is garbage.  Hence the love of TT.</p>

 

[PatrickShart]

I think Ton was referring to center prospects that haven't shown anything in the NHL - but were first round picks - McNeil, Danault, Hayes and TT</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pmikezus" data-cid="232925" data-time="1403704774">
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I think Ton was referring to center prospects that haven't shown anything in the NHL - but were first round picks - McNeil, Danault, Hayes and TT</p>
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I believe McNeil and Danault have been playing wing at Rockford.</p>


 </p>


They think so little of their center depth that they let Handzusless limp around the UC for a season too long.</p>

 

[PatrickShart]

And the legend soon to be TT didn't show them enough with his fantasic Jr's and Euro league to over take Handzus - when Kruger was able to come over and play right away.  So making him completely untouchable via trade for a bona fide top center seems foolish.</p>


 </p>


And there's some that think TT will be a better wing than center in the NHL as well</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

The biggest issue is, "can the Hawks afford Kesler"? Right now, they would need to move a larger salary (Sharp, Bicks, Seabs) in order to do it.


They also need to resign Smith, Morin and Raanta with only 4-5 million in space.

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pmikezus" data-cid="232931" data-time="1403705798">


And the legend soon to be TT didn't show them enough with his fantasic Jr's and Euro league to over take Handzus - when Kruger was able to come over and play right away. So making him completely untouchable via trade for a bona fide top center seems foolish.


And there's some that think TT will be a better wing than center in the NHL as well</p></blockquote>


Because it would have burned a year off his ELC pointlesssly playing at the end of the season into the playoffs. Why would that be a big deal? Because they expect him to be their 2c for the foreseeable future and its simply cap management.