2014 Training Camp/Preseason Thread

[winos5]

Kuc projects Mashinter being the final cut when healthy, expect him to get waived and sent to Rockford.</p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="236277" data-time="1412599119">
<div>


How is it bullshit?


4th line guys play between 5-10 minutes a night with no PP time and barely any PK time outside of Kruger. If they play in Rockford they get 15-20 minutes a night and both PP and PK time. You're also not developing prospects to be 4th line "shutdown" players as eventually Sharp, Hossa and whoever else will be gone. If you develop them to be one specific type of players, you've essentially made them worthless.</p>
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 </p>


Not the Hawks' fourth line guys. They average 10+ up to 14 or 15 minutes some nights. Sometimes they played more often than the third line. They don't get played like other team's fourth lines. And it didnt seem to hurt Smith's progression or Kruger's. All I want is another guy like Ben Smith on that line, that's it. I'm not asking for a 1st round draft pick to play that line, I'm not asking for a Kane on every line, just dress a player like Morin over an asshole like Carcillo. That's all I'm asking and it's probably not going to happen. Because as much as you want to keep saying now that Carcillo is the 13th forward (whereas before you were sure he was only here for camp and would be immediately cut) what leads you to believe that Quennville will actually play him like that? Nothing. Nothing should lead you to believe that, especially given his decisions last season and even moreso in the playoffs still playing Bollig.</p>


 </p>


How many times are we going to downplay shortening the bench due to dressing useless players and hoping 7 or 8 forwards will be enough to beat a team like LA in the playoffs? When even  fucking TORONTO and Philly are at least starting the season without a deadbeat like Carcillo on the team, you know it's bad. The Chicago Blackhawks currently have more "enforcers" on the team than the Toronto Maple Leafs and Flyers combined. That's bizzarro world, Twilight Zone type shit going on.</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="236280" data-time="1412603062">


OK...You're starting to make me fell a little bit better about this team, but the 5/6 defensive pairing scares the **** out of me. I'd like to see Oduya and Hammer split up. Roszival completely blows and even though I don't know him too well, I don't trust Rundblad.</p></blockquote>


I'm more worried about that 3rd pairing than Carcillo on the team.


I havent cared for Runblad, but he still hasn't gotten a fair shake. He's gonna take Leddys role as a puck moving dman. I really believe Johns, Dahlbeck or Clendening will be up by November.


I'd really like to know what Q has against Morin because yes, he's more skilled and talented than Carcillo.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="236304" data-time="1412641946">


Not the Hawks' fourth line guys. They average 10+ up to 14 or 15 minutes some nights. Sometimes they played more often than the third line. They don't get played like other team's fourth lines. And it didnt seem to hurt Smith's progression or Kruger's. All I want is another guy like Ben Smith on that line, that's it. I'm not asking for a 1st round draft pick to play that line, I'm not asking for a Kane on every line, just dress a player like Morin over an asshole like Carcillo. That's all I'm asking and it's probably not going to happen. Because as much as you want to keep saying now that Carcillo is the 13th forward (whereas before you were sure he was only here for camp and would be immediately cut) what leads you to believe that Quennville will actually play him like that? Nothing. Nothing should lead you to believe that, especially given his decisions last season and even moreso in the playoffs still playing Bollig.


How many times are we going to downplay shortening the bench due to dressing useless players and hoping 7 or 8 forwards will be enough to beat a team like LA in the playoffs? When even fucking TORONTO and Philly are at least starting the season without a deadbeat like Carcillo on the team, you know it's bad. The Chicago Blackhawks currently have more "enforcers" on the team than the Toronto Maple Leafs and Flyers combined. That's bizzarro world, Twilight Zone type shit going on.</p></blockquote>


I didn't think Carcillo would be around, but Mash got hurt so it makes sense they would have him come back.


Philly has Rinaldo which is essentially what Carcillo is. He's not an enforcer. He's a 4th line energy guy player who's aggressive, not afraid to hit, will drop the gloves when needed, and run through a fucking wall for a team. He's got some skill, more so than Bollig and that's it.


I must have missed it when Q shortened his bench to 3 lines, but I remember seeing the 4th line pretty regularly and not just 9 guys.


Would it make sense for Morin to play over Carcillo. Yes. But I understand why Carcillo is around, and one big reason is his contract.


I have a feeling you're going to be miserable this season. But I'm really tired of having his debate about this, so when I don't reply back, don't think you won the argument, I'm just done beating a dead horse. Agree to disagree.

 

[Variable]

You must have missed most of the LA series then.</p>

 

[Tater]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="236308" data-time="1412646100">
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You must have missed most of the LA series then.</p>
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 </p>


You must have missed his last two sentences.</p>

 

[Variable]

Doesn't really matter, he can keep saying Carcillo was only signed to be the 13th forward, we have  years worth of evidence that's not the case in how Q plays guys like Carcillo. </p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="236271" data-time="1412562474">
<div>


If nobody wants Roszival and Versteeg, how do you expect to get rid of them?


To be honest, Versteeg didn't look too bad so far this preseason.


Your forwards are:


Sharp-Toews-Hossa

Saad-Richards-Kane

Bickell-Shaw-versteeg

Smith-Kruger-Morin


Carcillo


The reason we have carbomb is he's making the league minimum. Plus this keeps a kid in rockford who isn't going to develop much in the show on the 4th line. He's your 13th forward and he's not as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Shit, he's an upgrade over Bollig.


Defense:


Seabs-Keith

Oduya-Hammer

Rozy/Runblad/Cumiskey/TVR


Don't forget that Clendening and Dahlbeck could be called back up and Cumiskey and TVR sent down and we are still under the cap.</p>
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 </p>


The 3rd D pairing is total fucking fail. Hammer/Oduya/Seabrook/Keith are going to have to play 27+ a night, especially come the playoffs. I don't trust ANY of those guys out there.</p>


 </p>


It was my belief that the Hawks needed to get better defensively this season if they were going to have a shot at the cup. In my opinion, they are substantially worse.</p>


 </p>


Which is why I think this offseason was a fail.</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

I don't know if defense was really their main concern considering we were one goal away from another Cup. With the cap the way it was, adding Richards as our 2nd line C seemed like the best they were gonna do.

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="236305" data-time="1412645152">
<div>


I'm more worried about that 3rd pairing than Carcillo on the team.


I havent cared for Runblad, but he still hasn't gotten a fair shake. He's gonna take Leddys role as a puck moving dman. I really believe Johns, Dahlbeck or Clendening will be up by November.


I'd really like to know what Q has against Morin because yes, he's more skilled and talented than Carcillo.</p>
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Given that they didn't play that horribly last year, I'm sticking to the story that Q caught him and Pirri Eiffel-towering one of his daughters.</p>


 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="236314" data-time="1412652202">
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Doesn't really matter, he can keep saying Carcillo was only signed to be the 13th forward, we have  years worth of evidence that's not the case in how Q plays guys like Carcillo. </p>
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</blockquote>


True enough, But it's obvious to everyone in hawks fandom that the fact that last playoffs Q played Versteeg over Regin, Rosival over Brookbank, and to a lesser extent (because of sample size) Morin over Bollig should be an eye-opener to upper management.  Of course us fans lose out but if Q would take that approach again--playing players *proven* better than his favorites, you know his days will be numbered.</p>

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

So if no cup this year Stan or McDick will put an end to the reign of the stache.

 

[winos5]

Mashinter put on LTIR.   Down to 23.</p>


 </p>


And according to capgeek we are still 47K over the cap</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Spunkus Porkstandzus" data-cid="236334" data-time="1412706113">


So if no cup this year Stan or McDick will put an end to the reign of the stache.</p></blockquote>


I wouldn't go that far. It really depends on what the goals of the team is and how they get there. I mean if the Hawks have a good season, but get bounced in the Conference Finals again, is that fair to Q? Say he plays Variables wet dream of a line up and they get bounced, will that be fair?

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Q gets a lot of heat against him, but the guys a proven winner. He's coaches great teams in St Louis and here in Chicago. Sure, he's made some decisions that not everyone agrees with, but he still wins. Yeah, players are obviously a heavy dictator in his success, but he still has to mold it all together and I think he gets dumped on too much. Shit, he's 10 times better than Savard and Sutter.

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="236336" data-time="1412707230">
<div>


I wouldn't go that far. It really depends on what the goals of the team is and how they get there. I mean if the Hawks have a good season, but get bounced in the Conference Finals again, is that fair to Q? Say he plays Variables wet dream of a line up and they get bounced, will that be fair?</p>
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 </p>


 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="236337" data-time="1412707333">
<div>


Q gets a lot of heat against him, but the guys a proven winner. He's coaches great teams in St Louis and here in Chicago. Sure, he's made some decisions that not everyone agrees with, but he still wins. Yeah, players are obviously a heavy dictator in his success, but he still has to mold it all together and I think he gets dumped on too much. Shit, he's 10 times better than Savard and Sutter.</p>
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I think it would depend on how the 'hawks would be bounced.  If the 'hawks were icing their best lineup in terms of actual production and lost in game 7 of ther WCF on overtime again, he'd probably get a pass.</p>


 </p>


If he would be in the same scenario, except he was icing Maschinter and Rosival instead of say, Morin and TVR even though Morin and TVR are ouplaying them both, then If he wouldn't get the axe, i could at least see the management sitting him down and telling him that his preferences do no supersede winning.</p>

 

[Variable]

Exactly. Its one thing to lose with your best possible team dressed and another when you, for whatever reason, refuse to do so and play scrubs like Bollig and an obviously ineffective at best, turnover machine at worst Versteeg. And if people don't think that didn't make a difference in that LA series then I'm not sure what they were watching.

 

[winos5]

Versteeg injured.</p>


 </p>


If he goes on LTIR TT comes up I'd guess.   Or Hartman?</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="236343" data-time="1412711050">
<div>


Exactly. Its one thing to lose with your best possible team dressed and another when you, for whatever reason, refuse to do so and play scrubs like Bollig and an obviously ineffective at best, turnover machine at worst Versteeg. And if people don't think that didn't make a difference in that LA series then I'm not sure what they were watching.</p>
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The question though is did he learn from his mistake.  We can say, "no he didn't" just because of past precedent.  The only way it will be really answered is this coming season.</p>

 

[Variable]

What's more baffling is that the season before he did the opposite and it was a big part in beating Boston for the Cup. I just do not understand how he could live through that and still make the kind of decisions that he does.

 

[Samurai]

Speculate...Speculate...Wahhhhhhh...</p>


 </p>


I'm just glad hockey is abooot to begin again. So there.</p>