2015 Baseball Hall of Fame elections

[TL1961]

Another blip about the elimination of amphetamines-

I don't think Red Bull or coffee fight fatigue for long. And becoming dependent upon these makes the situation worse very soon as far as I have ever experienced. Like a kid coming off a sugar high.

I just can't see red Bull making me more capable of hitting a ball. It may keep you awake, but I would expect it would also make you less stable. I'd be booting balls in the IF if I was taking speed/RedBull/amphetamines. I guess that's not the case for ballplayers, or they don't think it is. Then again, I have never, ever understood the overwhelming use of RedBull and Five Hour Energy.

But even if it makes them less tired, it is a far cry from adding strength and ability to recover from injuries more quickly.

 

[TL1961]

Somewhere along the line, there was a discussion about Greenies vs Roids. Here is an interesting op/ed from Neyer-

Neyer is always trying to take a contrary stance on everything. And he absolutely misses the point by a country mile. Rose is not out due to an integrity clause.

To hear people talk when it comes to cheaters, they'd be perfectly happy letting a guy keep their money that he won in a poker game even when they catch him with aces up his sleeves.

"Well, heck. I had sleeves, too, so I should have put aces in my sleeves if I wanted to win. Good for him. I vote for him to the poker HOF."

 

[chibears55]

I am one fan who considers the baseball Hall of Fame to be "baseball", so I believe that is just and proper, and is a no-brainer. If I was a player who knew I could be "banned from baseball" if I committed the wrong crime, I would have assumed it meant the HOF too.

It was never specifically stated that it DID or DID NOT include the HOF, so the commissioner and committee clarified it. They didn't change it. Ask Joe Jackson.

Im not saying he shouldn't of been banned from baseball, just that there was no such rule in place at that time for him to be ineligible for the HOF and wasn't in place until he became eligible and someone said uh oh what do we do to make sure he doesn't get voted in..
Alot of people loved Pete Rose and they were worried enough writers would overlook what he did and vote him in anyways

So, they did change/added it in 1991 because it wasn't in the rule at the time... Rules arent run on assumptions, they need to be specified and clear...

As far as joe jackson is concerned , it was most likely a gentlemen agreement like their doing now with bonds, clemons, mcguire, etc .. to keep him out all those years which went a long way back in the days...
but if im not mistaken, i believe there were talks to make him eligible for HOF considerations.. i believe it was the original round table of sports writers back in 80s with Gleason and Telender that was talking about it....


Im sure Rose never really ever thought hed get caught let alone ever be banned from baseball or ineligible for HOF..

Plus im 100% sure if he would of already been voted in before he got caught, they wouldn't of removed him....

 

[brett05]

Yea which was voted on so coincidentally the first year Rose was eligible for the HOF...

*In 1991, the*Baseball Hall of Fame*formally voted to ban those on the "permanently ineligible" list from induction, after previously excluding such players by informal agreement among voters.

So, such rule of him not being able to be a member of the HOF wasnt in place until after he broke the gambling on baseball rule... so, yes he should of been banned from any baseball participation but not lose his eligibility of being a HOFer for what he accomplished when he played. .

The commish and HOF committee conspired against Rose to keep him out at the time by coming up with that rule..

It was a rule they felt it needed to be coded per your own quote

 

[SilenceS]

They did NOT ban him for throwing games.

They banned him for BETTING ON games. And he admitted his guilt.

Betting on games leads to suspicion of throwing games. But they did not suspend him for throwing games. What they suspended him for was a crime that carried with it a lifetime ban, established decades before he played. And there is NO question as to whether or not he is guilty of the crime for which he is punished. None.

So, you don't find it hypocritical at all still that a player that cheats and affects the outcome of the games is not banned for life when caught. Ryan Braun made a mockery of baseball and lied. He won the mvp to boot. See, yall are still not seeing the hypocritical part of all yalls post. You are saying because it's not a rule it's ok. Steroids has had more affects on the game of baseball and outcomes over what Pete rose did. Do you not see that?


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[SilenceS]

Greenies? They help you concentrate. Have yall ever taken and adderal? It focuses you and gives you ton of energy. That's why people take it to study and to go out


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[SilenceS]

I dont know maybe im missing something but for the life of me, i just dont get how ballplayers can get fatigued and need pick me ups playing a game of baseball. ... 3 hrs a day for 162 days in a 7 month period playing a game.. and if you really analyze it, how mych are they really doing during those 3 hours ? Bat 4 times, and field a few balls ? pitchers play even less, though they work the hardest when they do, throwing a ball 80-100+ times..

If these guys rested and took csre of themselves properly during the season, there would be no need for them to take any kind of pick me up drugs...

What? Most players are at the game for hours before the game. They take batting practice, field, warm up, jog and other things. They also travel a **** load. Traveling in itself will wear you out. Its way more then they just bat a few times or throw a few balls.

 

[TL1961]

So, you don't find it hypocritical at all still that a player that cheats and affects the outcome of the games is not banned for life when caught. Ryan Braun made a mockery of baseball and lied. He won the mvp to boot. See, yall are still not seeing the hypocritical part of all yalls post. You are saying because it's not a rule it's ok. Steroids has had more affects on the game of baseball and outcomes over what Pete rose did. Do you not see that?


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Yes, I see that and I agree with you that more players used steroids and had a wider effect. They needed to do something and they did. Late, but they did it. They now have penalties in place, like they do for betting. And there is a potential ban from baseball - a third violation gets you a lifetime ban.

There's a lot of gray area and room for plenty of debate on whether the penalties are too harsh or too lenient for steroids.

But as far as gambling, it has always been looked at as THE crime that trumps all others. A Phillies owner was banned for life decades ago for betting on baseball. Incidentally, he bet his own team to win.

 

[TL1961]

What? Most players are at the game for hours before the game. They take batting practice, field, warm up, jog and other things. They also travel a **** load. Traveling in itself will wear you out. Its way more then they just bat a few times or throw a few balls.

This is very true, and is not something people think of a lot.

 

[chibears55]

What? Most players are at the game for hours before the game. They take batting practice, field, warm up, jog and other things. They also travel a **** load. Traveling in itself will wear you out. Its way more then they just bat a few times or throw a few balls.

Seriously? ???

Batting practice, warmup, and jogs...
first class travel on private team planes...

Please.....

Only thing wearing them out is staying out late after games for most is eating, drinking and playing with the women...
Not the actual game and game preparation itself. ..


Get up at 5 AM.. workout, sit in traffic for an hour, work 8 hours, sit in traffic another hour, get whatever needs to be done before dinner, eat, relax an hour or two, go to bed and do it all over again the next day.. 5 days a week 12 months a year ..

No need for pick me up pills to get through it...

 

[SilenceS]

Seriously? ???

Batting practice, warmup, and jogs...
first class travel on private team planes...

Please.....

Only thing wearing them out is staying out late after games for most is eating, drinking and playing with the women...
Not the actual game and game preparation itself. ..


Get up at 5 AM.. workout, sit in traffic for an hour, work 8 hours, sit in traffic another hour, get whatever needs to be done before dinner, eat, relax an hour or two, go to bed and do it all over again the next day.. 5 days a week 12 months a year ..

No need for pick me up pills to get through it...

Did you just compare a 9 to 5 job to the life of a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE?

 

[chibears55]

Did you just compare a 9 to 5 job to the life of a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE?

Telling you that a ball player dont need to take pick me up pills or whatever they need illigally to make it through a day if a regular joe who actually works for a living dont need to...

 

[SilenceS]

Telling you that a ball player dont need to take pick me up pills or whatever they need illigally to make it through a day if a regular joe who actually works for a living dont need to...

 

[chibears55]

Why ? Because you believe a baseball player works harder during a 7 month season then the average working guy does for 12 months ?

Tell me what most of these ballplayers been doing these last 4 months beside working out to stay in shape while the Avg joe been getting up at 5 AM putting in a full day of work etc...

 

[justaChifan]

Why ? Because you believe a baseball player works harder during a 7 month season then the average working guy does for 12 months ?

Tell me what most of these ballplayers been doing these last 4 months beside working out to stay in shape while the Avg joe been getting up at 5 AM putting in a full day of work etc...

The average joe isn't blessed with that type of talent.
The hard working people work hard because they know they can be replaced.
Having the talent to play a kids game should be enough incentive.

 

[SilenceS]

Why ? Because you believe a baseball player works harder during a 7 month season then the average working guy does for 12 months ?

Tell me what most of these ballplayers been doing these last 4 months beside working out to stay in shape while the Avg joe been getting up at 5 AM putting in a full day of work etc...

I dont even know where to begin with you? Do you think these players just roll out of bed and are this athletic? Do you know how hard they have to work to keep in baseball shape? Do you know what its like when you are taking a 100 plus swings a day? Running? etc. etc. etc. they put out more physical energy in just those 3 hours then you put in a whole day. Include the rest of their day and holy **** sticks would it get exhausting. Also, have you ever traveled? Have you ever been away from your family for a long period of time? Do you work all day then fly to the next city at 3 in the morning and play a game the next day? Either, you have never been any type of athlete or are just mind boggling ignorant to what PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES truly do. To compare them to a 9 to 5 job 5 days a week is mind boggling. I feel you have to be joking.

 

[justaChifan]

I dont even know where to begin with you? Do you think these players just roll out of bed and are this athletic? Do you know how hard they have to work to keep in baseball shape? Do you know what its like when you are taking a 100 plus swings a day? Running? etc. etc. etc. they put out more physical energy in just those 3 hours then you put in a whole day. Include the rest of their day and holy **** sticks would it get exhausting. Also, have you ever traveled? Have you ever been away from your family for a long period of time? Do you work all day then fly to the next city at 3 in the morning and play a game the next day? Either, you have never been any type of athlete or are just mind boggling ignorant to what PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES truly do. To compare them to a 9 to 5 job 5 days a week is mind boggling. I feel you have to be joking.

Do you sit at a desk all day to ask that question?
There are hard working people everywhere. Just as hard working as athletes....... believe it or not.
Cheats playing a kids game is still cheating.

 

[SilenceS]

Do you sit at a desk all day to ask that question?
There are hard working people everywhere. Just as hard working as athletes....... believe it or not.
Cheats playing a kids game is still cheating.

I dont even what you are talking about. I never said Greenies were ok. I said comparing a 9 to 5 job to that of an athlete is laughable and not even close. I didnt say there werent jobs, but I guarantee a 9 to 5 job doesnt entail the effort they put out and what they do. To not see that is quite cray.

 

[chibears55]

I dont even what you are talking about. I never said Greenies were ok. I said comparing a 9 to 5 job to that of an athlete is laughable and not even close. I didnt say there werent jobs, but I guarantee a 9 to 5 job doesnt entail the effort they put out and what they do. To not see that is quite cray.

Depends on the job.....
Not talking about the guy who wears a suit n tie and sits behind a desk all day and then goes home, puts on his slippers , and drinks a scotch. ..

There are tons of jobs out there that requires a 100 times more effort to get through the day then a ballplayers and you wont see these people looking to take illegal drugs to get thru such day.

 

[justaChifan]

I dont even what you are talking about. I never said Greenies were ok. I said comparing a 9 to 5 job to that of an athlete is laughable and not even close. I didnt say there werent jobs, but I guarantee a 9 to 5 job doesnt entail the effort they put out and what they do. To not see that is quite cray.

Hockey, basketball and football, I see your point. Baseball not so much.
Comparing amphetamines and steroids is like weed to heroin.
Steroids are on a different level of cheating. Players used to drink shitloads of coffee to get a greenie buzz.