2015 Cubs Offseason Discussion

[TL1961]

im sure the front office of the cards are scared knowing the "cubs are coming" even though they are all unproven.


Sent from My 1998 Palm Pilot Using Tapatalk

I never suggested anyone was "scared". Nice try.

But if you think other teams aren't eyeing the Cubs right now, you've got your head in the sand.

 

[chibears55]

The one thing i am confident in- Theo and Jed won't overreact to today's deals by doing something stupid just for the sake of doing something.

they have the money to over react a bit if it spent on the right players...

I wont mind seeing them over pay a bit if it brings in lester, or melky Cabrera

what I don't want to see but think its going to happen is their going to wind up with a masterson or hammell type starters on 2 yr deals ..

I just have a feeling unless the cubs over pay were going to be set up for another disappointing off season because the lester, scherzer, etc will sign with teams closer to winning now with money being equal...


also, im hoping the cubs kick the tires of ryan doumit for back up catcher now that martin gone

 

[TL1961]

I wouldn't mind Masterson or Hammels is they were signed behind Lester.

I agree they can afford to overpay, and frankly, if that's what it takes (within reason) that's what they should do. They can afford to pay more $ to Lester. They don't want to come up empty.

But they are not building for 2015 alone. Their window is opening, not closing. They don't need to go all in this offseason, or make any moves that hurt long term. (which is why i am so puzzled by people expecting them to trade away prospects they have waited for, before knowing what they have.)

OK...I have been home sick today, and listening to MLB network way too much. My head hurts.

 

[chibears55]

If the cubs don't bring in 1 TOR starter and 1 legit bat ( LF), i would consider this a bust of an off season. ..
Agree or disagree with me

 

[TL1961]

If they bring in a TOR starter, the offseason is not a bust.

There are few, if any, FA impact bats. I won't consider it a bust to not trade youngsters, but I would hope for more than just one key acquisition.

I expect three, not one. With Martin gone, maybe two. Which is fine.

 

[beckdawg]

Lester/Scherzer doesn't solve the issue. It just delays it. Lester isn't going to be a TOR pitcher when Rizzo/Castro/Others are in their prime. If they sign him so be it but let's not act like they are suddenly without issue.

 

[TL1961]

Quite the opposite.

They are hoping they can contend in 2015, but are building for sustained success. Adding Lester or another top starter makes them a good team in 2015. But "without issue"? No way.

They will have lack of experience at several positions, youngsters adjusting to - and being overwhelmed by - the majors, at least some of the time. And they will have a leadership void.

4 months ago I was ridiculed for thinking they could be .500 in 2015. Now everyone thinks we all expect a WS title already.

I am one who knows they are building to compete for years. 2015 will be a bonus if they contend. They plan to contend in 2016 and for years to come. That is a process that doesn't end.

Don't act like I am saying "Sign Lester and they're done". I am saying "Sign Lester and they've done well for this off season. For the future.

It takes time to put together pieces. They hope that some are in place, but anyone with any smarts knows that all prospects don't become stars, and even those that do, don't always star from day one.

Lester gives them a shot at contending in 2015, 2016, 2017. They obviously can't sign him and stop making moves in the future.

Who has ever suggested such a thing?

 

[TL1961]

Lester/Scherzer doesn't solve the issue. It just delays it. Lester isn't going to be a TOR pitcher when Rizzo/Castro/Others are in their prime. If they sign him so be it but let's not act like they are suddenly without issue.

If Rizzo and Castro and others play well while Lester IS a TOR starter, isn't that a good thing?

Are you suggesting they sign nobody now, and wait three years? Surely not.

So what is the point of that comment?

 

[chibears55]

Lester/Scherzer doesn't solve the issue. It just delays it. Lester isn't going to be a TOR pitcher when Rizzo/Castro/Others are in their prime. If they sign him so be it but let's not act like they are suddenly without issue.

Here how i look at it...

Rizzo, castro, others busting their ass to score runs only to have half ass starters losing those games sends a bad message to those kids..

You put a guy like lester on the mound showing these kids their serious about winning now, more times then not those kids/players will step it up a knot or two and play even harder..

 

[JZsportsfan]

Lester/Scherzer doesn't solve the issue. It just delays it. Lester isn't going to be a TOR pitcher when Rizzo/Castro/Others are in their prime. If they sign him so be it but let's not act like they are suddenly without issue.

True, but it's not like no other pitchers will enter FA the next 5-8 years. You can add other pieces outside of just Lester or Scherzer

 

[beckdawg]

Here how i look at it...

Rizzo, castro, others busting their ass to score runs only to have half ass starters losing those games sends a bad message to those kids..

You put a guy like lester on the mound showing these kids their serious about winning now, more times then not those kids/players will step it up a knot or two and play even harder..

Busting their ass or not I don't think the cubs are one pitcher away from being a playoff contender. I mean I get why fans want Lester. But substitute Lester with Shark from last year and did it make a substantial difference? Not saying the cubs are "bad" but I don't even know that Lester makes the cubs an 85 win team in the next 2-3 years. Maybe year 3. By that point I don't think Lester is pitching at that level again.

Like I said if they get Lester I'm fine with it but it's not solving the long term issue. Arrieta is going to be 29. Lester will be 31. Realistically you're talking a 3-4 year window with those two tops as "TOR" types. Perhaps I'm wrong and the younger guys progress faster than 2 years but for the sake of argument say that 2015/16 they are just building to playoff potential. Then what? You get 2 maybe 3 years and you're back in the hunt for a TOR. That's not a "window" to win a championship that you realistically want. You want 4-5+.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

Stanton got the best of both worlds. good for that guy

 

[chibears55]

Busting their ass or not I don't think the cubs are one pitcher away from being a playoff contender. I mean I get why fans want Lester. But substitute Lester with Shark from last year and did it make a substantial difference? Not saying the cubs are "bad" but I don't even know that Lester makes the cubs an 85 win team in the next 2-3 years. Maybe year 3. By that point I don't think Lester is pitching at that level again.

Like I said if they get Lester I'm fine with it but it's not solving the long term issue. Arrieta is going to be 29. Lester will be 31. Realistically you're talking a 3-4 year window with those two tops as "TOR" types. Perhaps I'm wrong and the younger guys progress faster than 2 years but for the sake of argument say that 2015/16 they are just building to playoff potential. Then what? You get 2 maybe 3 years and you're back in the hunt for a TOR. That's not a "window" to win a championship that you realistically want. You want 4-5+.

First with the shark question..
1. lester a better pitcher then shark and probably wins more low scoring games..
2. The team for the majority of last season and what they will be this season will be a bit different...
3. so yes, substituting lester over shark could of made a substantial difference. .


I wasn't saying Lester automatically makes the team a playoff contender but to become playoff contenders you need to start adding the lester type players .. there no reason not to attempt to add lester this off season and try for another solid starter next off season to have a strong rotation in 2016.

Nobody knows what were going to get from these kids in 2015 or 2016 , but it would be a shame if they shined and management wasted it by bringing in lesser starters over spending the money on TOR guys...

 

[beckdawg]

First with the shark question..
1. lester a better pitcher then shark and probably wins more low scoring games..
2. The team for the majority of last season and what they will be this season will be a bit different...
3. so yes, substituting lester over shark could of made a substantial difference. .


I wasn't saying Lester automatically makes the team a playoff contender but to become playoff contenders you need to start adding the lester type players .. there no reason not to attempt to add lester this off season and try for another solid starter next off season to have a strong rotation in 2016.

Nobody knows what were going to get from these kids in 2015 or 2016 , but it would be a shame if they shined and management wasted it by bringing in lesser starters over spending the money on TOR guys...

You're missing my point. I never said they should avoid adding lester. I said that adding lester doesn't solve their problems so to call it a bust offseason if they don't get him or Scherzer in my opinion is wrong.

 

[beckdawg]

Phil RogersVerified account
‏@philgrogers
With the Braves also needing pitching, no clear match for Shelby Miller but John Hart loves Cubs' inventory of young hitters. He'd listen.

So there's that...

 

[chibears55]

So there's that...

Im not understanding what this means. .
Braves needs pitching but loves cubs young hitters ?

By the way i dont care for or trust anything phil rogers writes..
He usually a day late and dollar short on most everything

 

[TL1961]

Busting their ass or not I don't think the cubs are one pitcher away from being a playoff contender. I mean I get why fans want Lester. But substitute Lester with Shark from last year and did it make a substantial difference? Not saying the cubs are "bad" but I don't even know that Lester makes the cubs an 85 win team in the next 2-3 years. Maybe year 3. By that point I don't think Lester is pitching at that level again.

Like I said if they get Lester I'm fine with it but it's not solving the long term issue. Arrieta is going to be 29. Lester will be 31. Realistically you're talking a 3-4 year window with those two tops as "TOR" types. Perhaps I'm wrong and the younger guys progress faster than 2 years but for the sake of argument say that 2015/16 they are just building to playoff potential. Then what? You get 2 maybe 3 years and you're back in the hunt for a TOR. That's not a "window" to win a championship that you realistically want. You want 4-5+.

Did Bryant, Soler, Baez and Alcantara play all of last year?

 

[chibears55]

You're missing my point. I never said they should avoid adding lester. I said that adding lester doesn't solve their problems so to call it a bust offseason if they don't get him or Scherzer in my opinion is wrong.

Sure it solves a problem. . They need a TOR starter and a building piece for the rotation..

They end up signing 1 or 2 one year deal guys and their rotation is still headed by Arrieta and Hendricks its a bust of an off season. . not because their bad starters but because they didn't improve at the top..

 

[CSF77]

We can't depend on those players to carry the load until they have proven them selves vs major league players. All we are doing is hoping. The best 2B/CF last year was Bonifacio. Again we hope that Baez and Alcantara do adjust next year. Soler progresses and Bryant makes a quick adjustment. But outside of them it is back up quality and Rizzo/Castro again.

Sure they have "potential" still that is not something to base a winning season on.

Pitching staff on the other hand that is something they should invest into stability. The run production should be viotale with the high SO's and high HR's but they need a stable run prevention.

 

[beckdawg]

Did Bryant, Soler, Baez and Alcantara play all of last year?

Are any of those players guaranteed to A) play well and B) play well enough in the next two years to get them +15 wins? Look, the players can be as talented as all get out but there's a large chance that they will require some build up time if they are to ever even meet their potential. I'd also like to point out I'm not one to shit on the cubs for the sake of shitting on them. I said prior to this season I thought they were a 70-75 win team. However, you're talking about them needing to gain 15 wins to get to this year's wild card teams. That's an enormous jump and last year a lot of things went right. Hammel could have been a train wreck. Arrieta took a huge step forward. Rizzo took a huge step forward. Any kind of back slide from them is a set back of a year.

Long story short, could lots of shit go right and they make the playoffs in the next two years? Sure but typically that's not how things work. In 2010 the Royals were in a very similar situation to the cubs. They'd "the greatest farm system ever" and were coming off a 67 win season. In 2011 they won 71 games, 72 in 12, 86 in 2013 and finally broke through this year with 89. That's 4 years from a similar position to where the cubs are. Now of course the cubs can throw around a bit more money but that's not exactly a guarantee of anything.