2015 Spring Training Thread

[TL1961]

If he starts in AAA for two-three weeks, 2015 does not count when figuring years of service before he is arbitration eligible. (If I am saying that correctly.)

So if we start him in the majors, we lose one year of control before he is arb eligible, thus adding millions to the overall cost of his first 6 years.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I was saying this after the 1st couple times I saw him pitch. I don't care what anyone says, he reminds me of Maddux, even when it comes to his hitting. The guy knows how to paint the corners just like Maddux did.

He just throws strikes. Heck, even Suttcliff said he reminds him of Maddux. The guy keeps winning. Him and Montero could be dangerous together, imo. Can't wait to see more, myself.

Loved his outing yesterday and reading more and more scouting reports on this kid has turned me into a believer. I think he's smart, has near perfect mechanics and can adjust quickly to hitters adjusting to him. That being said if you want to sort pitchers into guys with "stuff" and guys without, Greg Maddux was the best "no stuff" pitcher of the modern era. Dude got steroid freaks out with regularity while possessing limited velocity. To me it's not only unfair to Maddux to compare Hendricks to him but a huge disservice to Kyle himself. Most kids with his physical skill set don't make it past A ball, his smarts, effort and commitment to learning have him not only well past that threshold but have him looking like a solid MOR pitcher for years. Let's worry about whether he compares to HoF guys later.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

If he starts in AAA for two-three weeks, 2015 does not count when figuring years of service before he is arbitration eligible. (If I am saying that correctly.)

So if we start him in the majors, we lose one year of control before he is arb eligible, thus adding millions to the overall cost of his first 6 years.

Actually that's the super 2 date you're talking about, and for Bryant that would be sometime in June. There is no indication that the team is considering that. Small market teams tend to pay more attention to that because their players can get unaffordable to them before they even hit free agency. By waiting 9 games Bryant will become a free agent after the 2021 season, if he breaks camp he hits free agency a year earlier after 2020. Despite Brett05's correct assertions that Boras clients don't always elect for free agency, they usually do and you gave to operate as such. The Cubs have signed guys like Rizzo, Castro and Soler to lucrative but team friendly contracts to avoid these kind of issues. Boras sells his clients on a plan of gaining generational wealth at their free agent year and his guys are unlikely to sign those deals. Addison Russell is another Boras client but if the Cubs are in a pennant race this summer they may make the decision to bring him up and not worry about such things. They weren't in a pennant race last fall so their management of Bryant was quite different.

Something that I object to strongly is this assertion that those of us who see leaving Bryant down for 9 games as a no brainer as Theo sycophants who think he can do no wrong. On the contrary, I think these guys are almost certain to make mistakes. They've made them before, just look at some moves Jed made in San Diego and the much publicized mistakes Theo made in Boston. My point is then when there is a controllable decision where the benefit outweighs risk you make that call. It may not work that way with Addison Russell and they may have to call him up this year making both he and Bryant free agents after 2021. You'd kind of have to think that if these really are two generational talents they won't be able to keep both. Maybe they'll pay the wrong one, or maybe another Cubs FO will. I'm just saying you set up best possible scenarios when you can because often you have no such control. If Bryant stays down for say 11 games (remember the MLBPA is watching) and you think that might cost the Cubs a game then you are, in effect, saying Bryant is a 16 WAR player for 2015. Seriously, think about that.

 

[TL1961]

I also strongly disagree that any of us who believe Theo and Jed know what they are doing automatically believe every move will work out perfectly, and every prospect is guaranteed to be a superstar.

That is why I posted the sarcastic line about sycophants. I am tired of reading Brett and others make assertions that if we are confident in the Cubs' management team, that we are fools.

Bryant missing a dozen or so games won't kill the 2015 season (they don't dare bring him up immediately after the 9th game, if that is the cutoff, do they? ) But I do think more and more he will be a huge impact player this year. He's just that good. It may be true the team needs more depth and more experience. Nobody will argue that. But Bryant and Soler added to this lineup will be huge, and that is before factoring in whatever impact they get from Fowler, Alcantara and Baez, and isn't counting on anything from a guy like Olt, who could....maybe....surprise. (That would be icing on the cake: Olt playing well. He was all but written off a few months ago.)

If the Cubs finish a game or two out of the playoffs, and Bryant spent two-three weeks in the minors, there will be second guessing. But that chance is slim, so they should make the smart business move.

Frankly, if they announced they would start Bryant in the majors, I'd be happy to see him there, and would pray they don't cost themselves 2021. But there is no way they should be criticized for keeping him down. But the more noise he makes in ST, the more criticism they will get from fans who don't "get it".

Remember when they kept Kerry Wood down? A scout joked that they should be favorites to win the WS, because if they had 5 starters better than Wood, nobody would beat them. They went on to make the playoffs that year. (And Wood has been loyal to the organization forever.)

 

[TC in Mississippi]

My guess is that Bryant comes up, on the road, in the middle of the Pittsburgh series. Probably misses 12-13 games. I say he comes up 4/21 and makes his Wrigley debut 4/27.

 

[chibears55]

Is it me or does David Ross look / Swings like a pitcher batting

 

[Bear Pride]

Loved his outing yesterday and reading more and more scouting reports on this kid has turned me into a believer. I think he's smart, has near perfect mechanics and can adjust quickly to hitters adjusting to him. That being said if you want to sort pitchers into guys with "stuff" and guys without, Greg Maddux was the best "no stuff" pitcher of the modern era. Dude got steroid freaks out with regularity while possessing limited velocity. To me it's not only unfair to Maddux to compare Hendricks to him but a huge disservice to Kyle himself. Most kids with his physical skill set don't make it past A ball, his smarts, effort and commitment to learning have him not only well past that threshold but have him looking like a solid MOR pitcher for years. Let's worry about whether he compares to HoF guys later.

With all due respect, I never could hang with this opinion at all. Nowhere does saying a player reminds me of Maddux suggest that that player is the next Maddux. Imo, that's absurd. It's also absurd, imo, that it's taboo to suggest a young player reminds you of a great player.

When I watch Hendricks, he reminds me of Maddux. I watched Maddux for years play the game, and again, when I watch Hendricks play, it reminds me of when I watched Maddux. I don't understand why people have a problem with that.

He approches the game very much like Maddux, he throws strikes like Maddux, he's smart like Maddux, and he even hits well like Maddux. I'm pretty sure he fields the mound well like Maddux. I will continue to let him remind me of Maddux, thank you.

I see no added pressure on the kid by saying that, I don't predict he will be the next Maddux, I don't think it matters at all what we say, I just get excited when I continue to see similarities of a all time great Cubs pitcher in Maddux.

I will continue to think this way no matter what anyone says I shouldn't do, thank you.

 

[brett05]

What?

It means he signs if he's good instead of playing year by year until he reaches fa

 

[Parade_Rain]

With all due respect, I never could hang with this opinion at all. Nowhere does saying a player reminds me of Maddux suggest that that player is the next Maddux. Imo, that's absurd. It's also absurd, imo, that it's taboo to suggest a young player reminds you of a great player.

When I watch Hendricks, he reminds me of Maddux. I watched Maddux for years play the game, and again, when I watch Hendricks play, it reminds me of when I watched Maddux. I don't understand why people have a problem with that.

He approches the game very much like Maddux, he throws strikes like Maddux, he's smart like Maddux, and he even hits well like Maddux. I'm pretty sure he fields the mound well like Maddux. I will continue to let him remind me of Maddux, thank you.

I see no added pressure on the kid by saying that, I don't predict he will be the next Maddux, I don't think it matters at all what we say, I just get excited when I continue to see similarities of a all time great Cubs pitcher in Maddux.

I will continue to think this way no matter what anyone says I shouldn't do, thank you.

Agreed. There is no reason not to make a comparison when there are similar things going on. No one has crapped on anyone's posts when they've mentioned Baez and his bat speed in the same breath as Sheffield. It isn't suggesting Baez will be any good or have that career. It's just by simple eyesight he reminds you of him.

 

[chibears55]

With all due respect, I never could hang with this opinion at all. Nowhere does saying a player reminds me of Maddux suggest that that player is the next Maddux. Imo, that's absurd. It's also absurd, imo, that it's taboo to suggest a young player reminds you of a great player.

When I watch Hendricks, he reminds me of Maddux. I watched Maddux for years play the game, and again, when I watch Hendricks play, it reminds me of when I watched Maddux. I don't understand why people have a problem with that.

He approches the game very much like Maddux, he throws strikes like Maddux, he's smart like Maddux, and he even hits well like Maddux. I'm pretty sure he fields the mound well like Maddux. I will continue to let him remind me of Maddux, thank you.

I see no added pressure on the kid by saying that, I don't predict he will be the next Maddux, I don't think it matters at all what we say, I just get excited when I continue to see similarities of a all time great Cubs pitcher in Maddux.

I will continue to think this way no matter what anyone says I shouldn't do, thank you.

Just about all the young players are compared in some ways to players of the past. That not saying their careers are going to have similar paths, its just to get somewhat of an idea of the type of player they are or can be like...

 

[Bear Pride]

Just about all the young players are compared in some ways to players of the past. That not saying their careers are going to have similar paths, its just to get somewhat of an idea of the type of player they are or can be like...

Exactly, I don't see any problem with it. I'd go even farther with hendricks, however, that the most impressive thing he does like Maddux, is throw strikes. That's a great quality that they both share, so far. Heck, I've also noticed Russel's batting stance so far kind of reminds me of Derrek Lee. :dunno:

 

[brett05]

?... I am tired of reading Brett and others make assertions that if we are confident in the Cubs' management team, that we are fools.

Good thing I make no such assertion. I criticize those that won't criticize.

Bryant missing a dozen or so games won't kill the 2015 season (they don't dare bring him up immediately after the 9th game, if that is the cutoff, do they? )

You can't win in April but you can lose the playoffs in it.

But I do think more and more he will be a huge impact player this year. He's just that good.

Me too

If the Cubs finish a game or two out of the playoffs, and Bryant spent two-three weeks in the minors, there will be second guessing. But that chance is slim, so they should make the smart business move.

Given the parody getting stronger each season it's not as slim as you think. Even the Cubs from players to management have them publicly playing for the playoffs. They expect it.

Frankly, if they announced they would start Bryant in the majors, I'd be happy to see him there, and would pray they don't cost themselves 2021.

Now that's slim. Odds are if a Boras client is great they sign.

But there is no way they should be criticized for keeping him down. But the more noise he makes in ST, the more criticism they will get from fans who don't "get it".

Some would say you "don't get it".

 

[brett05]

Exactly, I don't see any problem with it. I'd go even farther with hendricks, however, that the most impressive thing he does like Maddux, is throw strikes. That's a great quality that they both share, so far. Heck, I've also noticed Russel's batting stance so far kind of reminds me of Derrek Lee. :dunno:

For Maddox didn't throw strikes. He took advantage of the extra inches off the plate that umps kept giving him. One of the smartest pitchers ever

 

[chibears55]

Here a question to all those who like montero and ross because they call good games and or frame pitches well...

They hit a combine .200 with basically zero production on offense will that be worth giving up on Castillo so soon ?

I hope they dump Ross and hold onto Castillo, I just dont see Montero giving this team anything offensively. ..
Ross looks like a pitcher when he hits...

 

[Parade_Rain]

Surely they signed Ross to be a ST guy passing along information to Montero and Castillo about Lester. You can't have a gimme in the catcher spot in the batting order, too.

 

[chibears55]

Surely they signed Ross to be a ST guy passing along information to Montero and Castillo about Lester. You can't have a gimme in the catcher spot in the batting order, too.

That what i was thinking / hoping with Ross, maybe even keeping him around as a coach ..
The guy cant actually feel like he has anything left to offer by still playing. .

Thinking about it, there has to be teams out there that made decent trade offers for Castillo if they seriously were moving him...

 

[Bear Pride]

For Maddox didn't throw strikes. He took advantage of the extra inches off the plate that umps kept giving him. One of the smartest pitchers ever

Maddux threw the ball where he wanted too, so does Hendricks so far.

 

[TL1961]

Good thing I make no such assertion. I criticize those that won't criticize.



You can't win in April but you can lose the playoffs in it.

Me too



Given the parody getting stronger each season it's not as slim as you think. Even the Cubs from players to management have them publicly playing for the playoffs. They expect it.



Now that's slim. Odds are if a Boras client is great they sign.



Some would say you "don't get it".

I expect they will compete for the playoffs. I said the chance they finish exactly one or two games out is slim.

Some may say I don't get it, but they'd be wrong.

 

[TL1961]

That what i was thinking / hoping with Ross, maybe even keeping him around as a coach ..
The guy cant actually feel like he has anything left to offer by still playing. .

Thinking about it, there has to be teams out there that made decent trade offers for Castillo if they seriously were moving him...

I don't think they're faking with Castillo. I believe they want to trade him, and teams assume they HAVE TO, so they aren't offering much. Arizona is playing chicken, saying they are not trading for a catcher after their guy just got injured.

I would like the scenario you mentioned: Keep Castillo and not Ross. But that's not happening. Maybe they keep three, but I can't see them getting rid of Ross. (Maybe they offer him a nice early retirement package.)

 

[TL1961]

Here a question to all those who like montero and ross because they call good games and or frame pitches well...

They hit a combine .200 with basically zero production on offense will that be worth giving up on Castillo so soon ?

I hope they dump Ross and hold onto Castillo, I just dont see Montero giving this team anything offensively. ..
Ross looks like a pitcher when he hits...

Montero won't bat .200.

The D provided by a catcher is every bit as valuable, or more so, than the offense. And we will have a lot of offense.

The sabermetric folks claim Montero will save you 24 runs with his D. Castillo's offense isn't worth that.