2019-20 MLB Hot Stove thread

Discus fish salesman

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The Sox? By locking them up early. They have created a window of control that goes into 2025-26 with pending talent incoming.

Sox might pull off a 2015 Cub turn around. But IMO it will come down to the manager utilizing it.

Minn was weakened this year and went band aid with the rotation. If they get Cease to adjust this year with Geo and Dallas providing vet stability.

Honestly they are primed to take the AL Central right now. But it really comes down to the manager making it work.
So what’s the difference then? The cubs had a window from 2015-2019 and if they didn’t decide to do a mini reboot then the window would have technically been through 2021 before having to worry about contracts being up. They haven’t shown the cubs anything. They did follow the same blue print though
 

anotheridiot

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Sox are schooling Theo on how to retain a core right now.
Are they? I thought they were just buying up their service time and arbitration and locking them in at a number. The option for Roberts will take this to 88 million and just be fair wage when they also need to hope some picks hit or trades worked to refill the core. I dont see any way they are schooling anyone other than how to keep grievences down by getting players to agree to contracts before they would be held back waiting for service time.
 

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Can someone tell me why the nationals want to act like Robles is untouchable? Neither his major league nor minor league number blow me away.
 

beckdawg

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Can someone tell me why the nationals want to act like Robles is untouchable? Neither his major league nor minor league number blow me away.
He's got a 70 grade field, throw and run. You're talking about an elite defensive CF to start with. In the minors he hit .300/.392/.457. In his first full year in the majors he had a .165 ISO. So as a batter you're talking about a .300 type hitter in his future with average power for CF and who's an elite defender. For reference, in 2015 when Lorenzo Cain hit .307/.361/.477 and was a great defender he was a 6.1 fWAR player. Robles has potential to be better than that.
 

CSF77

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So what’s the difference then? The cubs had a window from 2015-2019 and if they didn’t decide to do a mini reboot then the window would have technically been through 2021 before having to worry about contracts being up. They haven’t shown the cubs anything. They did follow the same blue print though

Have you read some of Theo's quotes over the years?

He has said that he wouldn't sacrifice the future to win today. Well that was not true. He did so on 2 occasions.

He has said build for the long term sustainable.

Again has not done this.

So you tell me? Honest Abe or used car salesman.
 

knoxville7

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Have you read some of Theo's quotes over the years?

He has said that he wouldn't sacrifice the future to win today. Well that was not true. He did so on 2 occasions.

He has said build for the long term sustainable.

Again has not done this.

So you tell me? Honest Abe or used car salesman.

I would say the cubs are still on a sustainable path, wouldn’t you? I don’t see where he has “lied” in regards to maintaining that
 

CSF77

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He's got a 70 grade field, throw and run. You're talking about an elite defensive CF to start with. In the minors he hit .300/.392/.457. In his first full year in the majors he had a .165 ISO. So as a batter you're talking about a .300 type hitter in his future with average power for CF and who's an elite defender. For reference, in 2015 when Lorenzo Cain hit .307/.361/.477 and was a great defender he was a 6.1 fWAR player. Robles has potential to be better than that.


I'm fine with Davis in CF in a few years.

From what I've been reading there might be no move made until June. They might just let David run with it and subtract if it is not working.

This should have been the right call anyways. Let the players dictate if they deserve to be together or not. Not a budget.
 

CSF77

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I would say the cubs are still on a sustainable path, wouldn’t you? I don’t see where he has “lied” in regards to maintaining that

Draining the farm system completely for short term gains goes exactly against what he said going in.

Even his deals with Det. Sold a few good players for pitching.
 

knoxville7

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Draining the farm system completely for short term gains goes exactly against what he said going in.

Even his deals with Det. Sold a few good players for pitching.

Eh...you can complain in hindsight about a couple deals. But really, the farm system never had pitching and most of the offensive players in the system are just up at the big leagues as part of the “core.” So, he didn’t really deplete is as much as it “graduated.”
 

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Have you read some of Theo's quotes over the years?

He has said that he wouldn't sacrifice the future to win today. Well that was not true. He did so on 2 occasions.

He has said build for the long term sustainable.

Again has not done this.

So you tell me? Honest Abe or used car salesman.
If they trade Bryant that would actually fit not sacrificing the future to win today. Sees the window is closing and while they may have a slight chance this year, selling gives them a whole new window
 

Castor76

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Of all the players who have been traded since 2016, which do you want back and for what purpose? Would any of them be on the ML roster now?
 

CSF77

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If they trade Bryant that would actually fit not sacrificing the future to win today. Sees the window is closing and while they may have a slight chance this year, selling gives them a whole new window


cRickets on that front.
 

CSF77

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Of all the players who have been traded since 2016, which do you want back and for what purpose? Would any of them be on the ML roster now?

They should have never done the Q trade.

Ok this is the thing. Every trade was for pitching. Why is that? Because they suck at targeting and development

So what did they do? Over pay in prospects and payroll to fill that need vs doing it themselves like most teams do.

It is more about incompetence and band aiding a problem.
 

Discus fish salesman

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They should have never done the Q trade.

Ok this is the thing. Every trade was for pitching. Why is that? Because they suck at targeting and development

So what did they do? Over pay in prospects and payroll to fill that need vs doing it themselves like most teams do.

It is more about incompetence and band aiding a problem.
They did say the strategy was to stockpile and develop bats and buy pitching. Sounds like they stuck to the plan to me
 

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cRickets on that front.
Well they really can’t do anything until there is a decision on his grievance.

Also it may be rickets decision to get under the tax (which is a smart decision), but it’s Theo that decides how to do that
 

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They should have never done the Q trade.

Ok this is the thing. Every trade was for pitching. Why is that? Because they suck at targeting and development

So what did they do? Over pay in prospects and payroll to fill that need vs doing it themselves like most teams do.

It is more about incompetence and band aiding a problem.

So you managed to come up with one bad trade? I’d say that’s a hell of a track record over the last what...6 years or so now?

The reason why every trade was for pitching is because they used their draft picks on hitting...just like he said he would do. If you want to argue that’s a bad approach, then go for it...but don’t act like Theo hasn’t done basically everything he said he would do to a T
 

beckdawg

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Ok this is the thing. Every trade was for pitching. Why is that? Because they suck at targeting and development

I've already in detail said this in the prospect thread so I wont go super in depth here but people need to stop saying this because it just ain't true. Are they a top 5 organization at targeting pitching and finding gems? No but to say they suck is pretty ignorant of the situation. The thing people gotta understand is you don't generally pull top 100 pitchers from outside the first 20 or so picks. There's a little leeway there with high schooler arms sometimes going in the sandwich round and becoming a thing but those players are typically getting higher value slot bonuses than their pick would otherwise indicate.

If you look at the top 10 or so RH and LH pitching prospects the lowest draft bonus I believe was Kopech at $1.5 mil. I didn't do a super exhaustive search so I may have missed someone but suffice to say the vast majority of arms you will see on those type of list got crazy bonuses because most pitchers can't just develop crazy stuff and the ones who have it to start with already get the bonuses. Anyways since 2014 which was the last year I had easy access to bonus data the cubs had 4 pitchers who got $1.5 mil or over and they were Cease, Lange, Little and Jensen.

That's where the cubs issue with pitching is. They haven't invested resources into it. The 2 years they did were 2014 and 2017. In 2017 they came away with several guys who will make the majors. Biggest issue there was Little and Lange not living up to expectations at least thus far but then other than Nate Pearson there weren't really anyone they "missed" on big time. 2014 was the Cease/Sands/Steele draft and while Sands was an out right bust Cease and Steele have been decent picks.

Going forward, I really don't see their approach changing that much from what we've seen save for 1 point. The reason for this is hitting is just so much more reliable. I mean just go through and look at how strong their picks for hitters high in the draft have been. Almora is probably the worst and he's still a useful MLB player. The one point I do think that will be different though is I think we're going to see them go after a lot more guys like Jensen who have good stuff but are flawed in some way. The idea there being if you can fix his third pitch with their pitch lab then the rest of his stuff is good enough. Additionally, another thing we've seen that I think will pay dividends is them targeting late blooming high school arms and paying them like 3rd round money later in the draft. They've done that with Kohl Franklin and DJ Herz the past two years and it turn out to be a really smart play given they have a bigger scouting department than a lot of other teams.
 

Castor76

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They should have never done the Q trade.

Ok this is the thing. Every trade was for pitching. Why is that? Because they suck at targeting and development

So what did they do? Over pay in prospects and payroll to fill that need vs doing it themselves like most teams do.

It is more about incompetence and band aiding a problem.

You did not answer my question. Of the 4 guys traded for Quintana, which of them would be on the MLB roster right now? Or is it more likely they would have been traded later for someone else. If that's the case, then it isn't the trade, but the trade results that has you upset.
 

TL1961

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Some fans assume anytime an organization trades a player that means the organization thinks that player is not good

Far from it the organization often deals from depth or redundancy

While nobody thinks Eloi is not a very good prospect the organization could afford to trade him for pitching while they had Schwarber in the outfield

think that’s crazy? It isn’t. They were able to pick up Castellanos as a hitter far cheaper than you can pick up pitching typically.

They picked up pitching by trading depth and filled in the depth cheaper than they can buy pitching.

Meanwhile their approach whether you agree with it or not is at least based on a philosophy that hitters are less risky at a young age.

Cardinals selected a great prospect in Reyes, and five years later he has three mlb wins.

They hit hr w Flaherty.

But young pitchers are risky.

I don’t think the trade for Q looks good right now, but I don’t have an issue with the chance they took.
 

beckdawg

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I don’t think the trade for Q looks good right now, but I don’t have an issue with the chance they took.
Personally, I'm not sure I'd even go that far. I mean Cease put up a 4.21 and a 4.32 bb/9 in 68.1 and 73 IP at AAA/MLB respectively last season. When you add in that he's never had great command it's increasingly likely he winds up in the bullpen. He'll likely be very good there but even a good bullpen arm is hardly worth 4 years of a durable starter IMO. As for Eloy there's more and more concern about his ability to play the field from the scouting I've read. That matches what his actually defensive metrics in LF already say. He'll likely be a very good DH but like... that's the thing about the trade. You're trading a likely DH and reliever for 4 years of a starter. I'm not trying to cast Q as a home run or anything but I feel like people overreact to the cost. In other words, the problem with the trade wasn't the cost it was the fact the return was as good as we'd hope.
 

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