2019-20 MLB Hot Stove thread

[CSF77]

Trading Bryant now is stupid. See how the team responds to last year’s failure and his value will be more or less the same at the trade deadline, and a contender might get desperate and overpay at the trade deadline.

Kieboom and 2 pitchers would be a strait deal for 2 years. Shed 1 arm if it is for 1 year. Nat's have a long history with Boras and that is a far more likely extension situation for Bryant.

Kieboom is at AAA and honestly fits better at 2B but 3B might also be a possibility. The bat justifies it.

 

[CSF77]

I also saw a suggestion I thought was interesting and that was including Happ going to Washington. The idea was Bryant and happ for Robles, Kieboom, Tim Cate and Austin Voth. Voth I wouldn't mind as a 5th starter throw in type piece. Cate I'm more meh on. I'm also kinda meh on Kieboom despite his prospect status. He's probably a 2B and while he can hit just feel like he's not the right fit for the cubs. As mention, I'd rather have Rutledge who looks like he could potentially turn into a 6'8 monster starter. He already sits 95-98 and has a extremely good slider.

I'm ok with Kieboom. He has a solid hit tool and having him, Baez and Nico all pushing .300 every year is refreshing after the all or nothing we have been plagued with.

I don't know about that suggestion. If Happ had a true break out sure I can see it. All I'm seeing is heavy weight on Bryant and a hail Marry to get that return. The Cubs would have to add something of solid quality to even facitatate it.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm ok with Kieboom. He has a solid hit tool and having him, Baez and Nico all pushing .300 every year is refreshing after the all or nothing we have been plagued with.

I don't know about that suggestion. If Happ had a true break out sure I can see it. All I'm seeing is heavy weight on Bryant and a hail Marry to get that return. The Cubs would have to add something of solid quality to even facitatate it.

I just don't really find Kieboom that interesting. Cubs have done well developing 2B type prospects be it Bote, Giambroni...etc. I'm fairly sure Kieboom can't play SS long term. He probably has the arm for 3B but you're talking about a guy with a minor league ISO of .182. I'm not discounting his ability to put on strength but like... league average for 3B last year in ISO was .193. So, he's most likely at best going to be an average power guy for 3B where as at 2B the league average was .164. So, he'd probably already have above average power for a 2B.

That's not to say he's bad but like I said before I just view him as a bat first 2B. For my tastes I'm not trading Bryant without Robles and I tend to agree you're not getting both without happ ++. In fact, if the Nats are that hesitant to trade Robles you may need Happ as part of it just to get them to budge on that. IMO you maybe look at whatever deal you could get swapping Kieboom and Robles and add maybe a minor piece on top with Happ. So for example if it would be Bryant for Kieboom, Rutledge and Cate maybe you get something like Bryant/Happ for Robles, Rutledge and one of Mason Denaburg/Wil Crowe.

 

[fatbeard]

I didn't post a 64 game sample. I said over his MLB exposure he is -3 runs saved compared to a avg MLB CF in 814 innings.

So he is not killing them out there as long as the bat justifies it.

So not sure on your point here? CF is a O void and D only position?

My point is that you're trying to say Happ "proved" himself in CF based on an 814-inning DRS sample, when the very people who invented DRS are telling you that you need at least a season's worth of innings (1458) before it is reliable.

 

[CSF77]

My point is that you're trying to say Happ "proved" himself in CF based on an 814-inning DRS sample, when the very people who invented DRS are telling you that you need at least a season's worth of innings (1458) before it is reliable.

It is hard to do that with out an opportunity.

 

[CSF77]

I just don't really find Kieboom that interesting. Cubs have done well developing 2B type prospects be it Bote, Giambroni...etc. I'm fairly sure Kieboom can't play SS long term. He probably has the arm for 3B but you're talking about a guy with a minor league ISO of .182. I'm not discounting his ability to put on strength but like... league average for 3B last year in ISO was .193. So, he's most likely at best going to be an average power guy for 3B where as at 2B the league average was .164. So, he'd probably already have above average power for a 2B.

That's not to say he's bad but like I said before I just view him as a bat first 2B. For my tastes I'm not trading Bryant without Robles and I tend to agree you're not getting both without happ ++. In fact, if the Nats are that hesitant to trade Robles you may need Happ as part of it just to get them to budge on that. IMO you maybe look at whatever deal you could get swapping Kieboom and Robles and add maybe a minor piece on top with Happ. So for example if it would be Bryant for Kieboom, Rutledge and Cate maybe you get something like Bryant/Happ for Robles, Rutledge and one of Mason Denaburg/Wil Crowe.

I tend to agree with you on this subject. Cubs already have that in Nico. And to be honest Davis will be thundering up very soon and he has the speed to become a superstar in CF.

So I'm actually fine with Happ and late inning Almora for a year or 2. Davis is that intriguing right now to justify it.

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 55 | Run: 65 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 50

 

[JimJohnson]

I just don't really find Kieboom that interesting. Cubs have done well developing 2B type prospects be it Bote, Giambroni...etc. I'm fairly sure Kieboom can't play SS long term. He probably has the arm for 3B but you're talking about a guy with a minor league ISO of .182. I'm not discounting his ability to put on strength but like... league average for 3B last year in ISO was .193. So, he's most likely at best going to be an average power guy for 3B where as at 2B the league average was .164. So, he'd probably already have above average power for a 2B.

That's not to say he's bad but like I said before I just view him as a bat first 2B. For my tastes I'm not trading Bryant without Robles and I tend to agree you're not getting both without happ ++. In fact, if the Nats are that hesitant to trade Robles you may need Happ as part of it just to get them to budge on that. IMO you maybe look at whatever deal you could get swapping Kieboom and Robles and add maybe a minor piece on top with Happ. So for example if it would be Bryant for Kieboom, Rutledge and Cate maybe you get something like Bryant/Happ for Robles, Rutledge and one of Mason Denaburg/Wil Crowe.

Bote is shit

 

[anotheridiot]

I just don't really find Kieboom that interesting. Cubs have done well developing 2B type prospects be it Bote, Giambroni...etc. I'm fairly sure Kieboom can't play SS long term. He probably has the arm for 3B but you're talking about a guy with a minor league ISO of .182. I'm not discounting his ability to put on strength but like... league average for 3B last year in ISO was .193. So, he's most likely at best going to be an average power guy for 3B where as at 2B the league average was .164. So, he'd probably already have above average power for a 2B.

That's not to say he's bad but like I said before I just view him as a bat first 2B. For my tastes I'm not trading Bryant without Robles and I tend to agree you're not getting both without happ ++. In fact, if the Nats are that hesitant to trade Robles you may need Happ as part of it just to get them to budge on that. IMO you maybe look at whatever deal you could get swapping Kieboom and Robles and add maybe a minor piece on top with Happ. So for example if it would be Bryant for Kieboom, Rutledge and Cate maybe you get something like Bryant/Happ for Robles, Rutledge and one of Mason Denaburg/Wil Crowe.

Left out the guy that got added to the 40 man so he would not get claimed via rule 5 in Zach Short. Think he is just a piece they will be moving along in a trade?

 

[CSF77]

Left out the guy that got added to the 40 man so he would not get claimed via rule 5 in Zach Short. Think he is just a piece they will be moving along in a trade?

UI depth. Emergency SS

 

[CSF77]

Bote is shit

Pot meet kettle.

 

[CSF77]

Sox are schooling Theo on how to retain a core right now.

 

[beckdawg]

Sox are schooling Theo on how to retain a core right now.

I mean not really. They are just buying out their arbitration years early. They got one additional year on Eloy.

 

[knoxville7]

I mean not really. They are just buying out their arbitration years early. They got one additional year on Eloy.

Right? And if a couple of them don’t pan out, they are stuck paying them still

 

[CSF77]

IDK about all of that. It is what Theo did with Rizzo and Castro. Then he forgot how to lock guys up after signing Bryant.

 

[CSF77]

Good for those kids. Take away the stupid free year of control game and just play the game. The way it should be.

 

[beckdawg]

IDK about all of that. It is what Theo did with Rizzo and Castro. Then he forgot how to lock guys up after signing Bryant.

Different cases. Rizzo was a 6th round draft pick. Castro famously was a super cheap IFA signing. Comparing those guys to top picks doesn't make sense because there's differences of millions of dollars those players already have in hand. Why do you think it was that Hendricks was the first of the current group of guys to sign? He was a 10th round pick IIRC.

 

[TL1961]

His D is not below average. Its s false statement. He plays multiple positions. He is a better D third baseman than Bryant. Also, his bat is actually above league average and against RH was a serious plus. He had a bad year against lefties like the rest of the team.

I agreed with your statement that his bat is league average, and you disagreed.

 

[TL1961]

Sox are schooling Theo on how to retain a core right now.

Uh huh.
Holding their core together after their WS win and into their free agency years has been impressive. How do they do it?

 

[CSF77]

Different cases. Rizzo was a 6th round draft pick. Castro famously was a super cheap IFA signing. Comparing those guys to top picks doesn't make sense because there's differences of millions of dollars those players already have in hand. Why do you think it was that Hendricks was the first of the current group of guys to sign? He was a 10th round pick IIRC.

They paid 26 m to sign Roberts. He already took care of his family so it was more so about getting on the field.

They did this with Eloy also and got him out there to adjust right away and at the end of the year he was wrecking the ball

End of the day it is about talent and getting it to adjust. Even Soler had talent but couldn't keep healthy enough to utilize it. But last year showed that Theo was not wrong targeting him.

 

[CSF77]

Uh huh.
Holding their core together after their WS win and into their free agency years has been impressive. How do they do it?

The Sox? By locking them up early. They have created a window of control that goes into 2025-26 with pending talent incoming.

Sox might pull off a 2015 Cub turn around. But IMO it will come down to the manager utilizing it.

Minn was weakened this year and went band aid with the rotation. If they get Cease to adjust this year with Geo and Dallas providing vet stability.

Honestly they are primed to take the AL Central right now. But it really comes down to the manager making it work.