2020 Rumor Mill

[Raskolnikov]

No, maybe first 5 games he was in the face of anyone who hit Kane, but apparently was told that we dont play that kind of hockey.

What was the sense of getting him if it was not to be a deterrent?

You watched how the western conference treated Kane in the playoffs right? tries to carry the puck in, he is sent to the boards. Makes him stop carrying the puck in, changes his game. Same difference when you get the other team thinking there might be a reason to look over their shoulder.

We dont have the balance of talent on this team anymore to play that puck possession hockey. That was always the excuse, we cant hit anybody if we have the puck. Now we dont have the puck and had one guy hitting people and actually staying on the ice, not Jewels or Shaw hit and box.

He is young and they were riding a hot streak. That is Murphy and Maata's job without Gilbert in the line-up.

Personally I would replace KooKoo with Gilbert but its my opinion they are nearing a trade, will shuttle some things around as soon as this hot streak ends. Until then they are keeping Gilbert active and improving in Rockford. They like him alot and he'll be back, but they have to expose these others guys and get some value back for Gus/Maata/Kookoo.

I don't believe any of them will be here next year.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Any rumors out there?

Any #2 D-men with expiring contracts?

I can't put my finger on what else we really need. Another fwd sure but that would mean deciding on benching Nylander or Dach.

 

[Raskolnikov]

ya'll who told me we would cling to Nylander like he was gold just because Stan traded for him are right. We can't let it go, we are stuck to slotting him even on the 4th line.

 

[Tater]

ya'll who told me we would cling to Nylander like he was gold just because Stan traded for him are right. We can't let it go, we are stuck to slotting him even on the 4th line.

It's sad but true. The guy is useless.

 

[Raskolnikov]

It's sad but true. The guy is useless.

there is no aggression in him

 

[anotheridiot]

It's sad but true. The guy is useless.

I dont think he is useless, his name is worth alot.

 

[Granada]

Carcillo did absolutely zero protecting (whatever that means) of Kane and Toews.

No one was afraid of incurring Carcillo's wrath.

Protection/Accountability is one of the oldest and dumbest hockey myths.

Yeah -- forget about Toews, Kane, and Keith going on record (many times, but most recently with regard to Tootoo) publicly stating how important it is to have players like that on the team. I mean, who needs Cup years with players like Eager/Fraser, Mayers, Bickell, when you have a 5 game regular season winning streak?

If you think chemistry is a myth, then your argument makes sense, but it doesn't. And much to your chagrin I'm sure, there is a reason why players of this caliber are still regularly employed in the NHL -- particularly for the regular season.

 

[Diehardfan]

Yeah -- forget about Toews, Kane, and Keith going on record (many times, but most recently with regard to Tootoo) publicly stating how important it is to have players like that on the team. I mean, who needs Cup years with players like Eager/Fraser, Mayers, Bickell, when you have a 5 game regular season winning streak?

If you think chemistry is a myth, then your argument makes sense, but it doesn't. And much to your chagrin I'm sure, there is a reason why players of this caliber are still regularly employed in the NHL -- particularly for the regular season.

That is correct. The trick, at least with a Q coached team, was finding someone of that ilk that can also play a little bit. Eager was ideal....in theory Carcillo could have been as well had he not forgotten how he got there in the first place. Later acquistions all seemed like a reach......I mean John Scott was tough as nails but he skated like he wasn't wearing skates.

 

[puckjim]

I watched Kane kick the Western Conference's ass in the playoffs for years.

Kane won a Hart despite the "harsh" treatment.

 

[puckjim]

Yeah -- forget about Toews, Kane, and Keith going on record (many times, but most recently with regard to Tootoo) publicly stating how important it is to have players like that on the team. I mean, who needs Cup years with players like Eager/Fraser, Mayers, Bickell, when you have a 5 game regular season winning streak?

If you think chemistry is a myth, then your argument makes sense, but it doesn't. And much to your chagrin I'm sure, there is a reason why players of this caliber are still regularly employed in the NHL -- particularly for the regular season.

Bickell does not deserve to be lumped in with those worthless names.

 

[Granada]

Bickell does not deserve to be lumped in with those worthless names.

Go ahead and remove him. The point still stands.

 

[MassHavoc]

Back when guys could skate and fight the skill was relevant. As it became more a wasted roster spot for a guy who brings fighting first the necessity became less relevant. Too much money and competition in the league to waste cap and roster spot on enforcers.

 

[puckjim]

Back when guys could skate and fight the skill was relevant. As it became more a wasted roster spot for a guy who brings fighting first the necessity became less relevant. Too much money and competition in the league to waste cap and roster spot on enforcers.

Yup. The salary cap was essentially the end of the enforcer era.

 

[Granada]

Back when guys could skate and fight the skill was relevant. As it became more a wasted roster spot for a guy who brings fighting first the necessity became less relevant. Too much money and competition in the league to waste cap and roster spot on enforcers.

There's a difference between enforcers (like John Scott, etc.) and guys who can stick up for teammates and still play a bit -- but anyways, both are still employed in today's NHL. An enforcer costs the league minimum most times, so the cost isn't necessarily a concern.

The one facet that has been phased out (for the better) are the staged fights between two goons when a puck is dropped on a face-off -- but fighting still has a place in hockey even today; thus, players that can fight still have a place in it too. The staged fights have been all but eliminated, but sticking up for either a teammate who took a massive hit or yourself is still alive and well. Look no further than Matthew Tkachuk getting his ass kicked by Zack Kassian.

If one thing has changed, it's that you can't simply be a big guy and fight anymore; you have to have a little more skill, which is a good thing. The role has evolved, which again, is a good thing.

 

[Granada]

Yup. The salary cap was essentially the end of the enforcer era.

Guess Ryan Reeves, Nicolas Deslaurias, Kyle Clifford, Milan Lucic, Zack Kassian, Radko Gudas, Anthony Bitetto, Deryk Engelland, Corey Perry, etc. didn't get the memo. Not to mention all the enforcers who are now retired but who played in the Salary Cap Era like Scott, Westgarth, Neil, Bollig, Hartnell, Carcillo, Parros, the list goes on. It's like people forget when the Cap era started.

 

[MassHavoc]

Guess Ryan Reeves, Nicolas Deslaurias, Kyle Clifford, Milan Lucic, Zack Kassian, Radko Gudas, Anthony Bitetto, Deryk Engelland, Corey Perry, etc. didn't get the memo. Not to mention all the enforcers who are now retired but who played in the Salary Cap Era like Scott, Westgarth, Neil, Bollig, Hartnell, Carcillo, Parros, the list goes on. It's like people forget when the Cap era started.

The number of fights per game has steadily dropped over the last 10-20 years to the point where there are only about 1/3 of the fights overall than their used to be. Fighting is no longer as relevant and not a needed deterrent in the league. It also doesn't point to it working because the numbers are down because less enforcers less fighting. The league itself is distancing itself from this part of the sport. Not many people miss it either except old school die hards it seems. I don't see a lot of pining articles for where did all the fighting go. It's a skill league now.

 

[Granada]

The number of fights per game has steadily dropped over the last 10-20 years to the point where there are only about 1/3 of the fights overall than their used to be. Fighting is no longer as relevant and not a needed deterrent in the league. It also doesn't point to it working because the numbers are down because less enforcers less fighting. The league itself is distancing itself from this part of the sport. Not many people miss it either except old school die hards it seems. I don't see a lot of pining articles for where did all the fighting go. It's a skill league now.

Of course it has -- this isn't the Broadstreet Bully Era anymore. It's been on a steady decline since the 70's I'm sure.

Again, fighting isn't strictly about deterrence. The league is distancing itself from hitting and concussions also, yet they're still prevalent. Simply because you don't see a lot of articles on a subject doesn't prove your point.

 

[LordKOTL]

The number of fights per game has steadily dropped over the last 10-20 years to the point where there are only about 1/3 of the fights overall than their used to be. Fighting is no longer as relevant and not a needed deterrent in the league. It also doesn't point to it working because the numbers are down because less enforcers less fighting. The league itself is distancing itself from this part of the sport. Not many people miss it either except old school die hards it seems. I don't see a lot of pining articles for where did all the fighting go. It's a skill league now.

I read somewhere, and I could be wrong, that fighting is actually going up this year. It certainly has for the 'hawks.

Then you have Perrault's comments about the DoPS with respect to the elbow he took and the DoPS' lack of response--which I think is the salient point for the "frontier justice" mindset. If the DoPS isn't consistent unto itself and even across the board when it comes to dirty play, the discipline for it, and who comments what act, then you're going to have players who have a high-level of pack mentality going to either (a) fight, or (b) cheapshot the other guy--like Perrault said he would (Swinging his stick).

I'll admit it--I'm a lantern-jawed Neanderthal which likes a good payback fight if a player takes a liberty with another. But I also think that fighting will be a part of the game and continue to be a part of the game until the DoPS starts being even-handed across the league as to how long each suspension is for every cheap act irrespective of who commits it, and that said acts are actually punitive and not slaps on the wrist. To wit: It shouldn't matter if's John Scott or Sidney Crosby putting the McSorely Maneuver on someone--they should both be suspended for the same amount of time.

And if that ever does happen...then I will be fine with fighting becoming nothing more than a memory. But I don't see that happening. Crosby, McJesus, Matthews, etc. could take someone's fingers off and the league will still have its tongue so far up their asses it'll taste their prostates.

 

[MassHavoc]

I read somewhere, and I could be wrong, that fighting is actually going up this year. It certainly has for the 'hawks.

Then you have Perrault's comments about the DoPS with respect to the elbow he took and the DoPS' lack of response--which I think is the salient point for the "frontier justice" mindset. If the DoPS isn't consistent unto itself and even across the board when it comes to dirty play, the discipline for it, and who comments what act, then you're going to have players who have a high-level of pack mentality going to either (a) fight, or (b) cheapshot the other guy--like Perrault said he would (Swinging his stick).

I'll admit it--I'm a lantern-jawed Neanderthal which likes a good payback fight if a player takes a liberty with another. But I also think that fighting will be a part of the game and continue to be a part of the game until the DoPS starts being even-handed across the league as to how long each suspension is for every cheap act irrespective of who commits it, and that said acts are actually punitive and not slaps on the wrist. To wit: It shouldn't matter if's John Scott or Sidney Crosby putting the McSorely Maneuver on someone--they should both be suspended for the same amount of time.

And if that ever does happen...then I will be fine with fighting becoming nothing more than a memory. But I don't see that happening. Crosby, McJesus, Matthews, etc. could take someone's fingers off and the league will still have its tongue so far up their asses it'll taste their prostates.

Maybe as the stats show only through 18-19 and are pretty unofficial I presume. But its really not a huge indicator because it's dropped to .19 per game. At double that it's still much lower than even 10 years ago. There was an inevitable point that it would get so low that there would be a year it was probably slightly higher just on average so we'll have to see what that is next year when it's all final.

I will not say I want hockey fighting gone. I think it's part of the game to stay but they turned it into a real part with no ramifications for the players acts. Any more it's some cheap shot artist or whatever getting off Scott free because the other team throws their enforcer on the ice so you throw yours and those to beat their brains in and then it's supposed to be over? Enforcers were necessary when people who did stupid things were actually the ones that had to get in the stupid fights and that just doesn't happen anymore.

 

[MassHavoc]

Of course it has -- this isn't the Broadstreet Bully Era anymore. It's been on a steady decline since the 70's I'm sure.

Again, fighting isn't strictly about deterrence. The league is distancing itself from hitting and concussions also, yet they're still prevalent. Simply because you don't see a lot of articles on a subject doesn't prove your point.

Ok. So you verified all my evidence points. What is your point now?