2020 Rumor Mill

[Granada]

Ok. So you verified all my evidence points. What is your point now?

My point is, fighting has been on the decline naturally, from the Broad Street Bully/70's era. A decline in fighting doesn't illustrate your point -- it's a natural decline; i.e., it was bound to decline no matter what.

 

[anotheridiot]

My point is, fighting has been on the decline naturally, from the Broad Street Bully/70's era. A decline in fighting doesn't illustrate your point -- it's a natural decline; i.e., it was bound to decline no matter what.

Maybe fighting is down because every team in the NHL is following the Tallon blueprint of finesse players, speed and puck possession that got three cups and the team of the decade honors (as terrible as the last two years were/are) and they did not include fighters, they chose d men who could be offensive weapons.
This team was absolute shit before Gilbert started taking names. The whole team seemed to change with every slap of their stick on the ice as he skated to the penalty box.

 

[Granada]

Maybe fighting is down because every team in the NHL is following the Tallon blueprint of finesse players, speed and puck possession that got three cups and the team of the decade honors (as terrible as the last two years were/are) and they did not include fighters, they chose d men who could be offensive weapons.
This team was absolute shit before Gilbert started taking names. The whole team seemed to change with every slap of their stick on the ice as he skated to the penalty box.

There have always been fighters on the Hawks, including the Cup years. Fraser, Eager, Burish, Mayers, Bollig, Carcillo etc.

John Scott, Jordin Tootoo, Zack Smith this year...

 

[puckjim]

Guess Ryan Reeves, Nicolas Deslaurias, Kyle Clifford, Milan Lucic, Zack Kassian, Radko Gudas, Anthony Bitetto, Deryk Engelland, Corey Perry, etc. didn't get the memo. Not to mention all the enforcers who are now retired but who played in the Salary Cap Era like Scott, Westgarth, Neil, Bollig, Hartnell, Carcillo, Parros, the list goes on. It's like people forget when the Cap era started.

None of those guys made any difference

 

[puckjim]

Maybe fighting is down because every team in the NHL is following the Tallon blueprint of finesse players, speed and puck possession that got three cups and the team of the decade honors (as terrible as the last two years were/are) and they did not include fighters, they chose d men who could be offensive weapons.
This team was absolute shit before Gilbert started taking names. The whole team seemed to change with every slap of their stick on the ice as he skated to the penalty box.

Nothing about the Blackhawks alleged turnaround had anything to do with Gilbert.

Number 7 defensemen don't matter.

 

[MassHavoc]

My point is, fighting has been on the decline naturally, from the Broad Street Bully/70's era. A decline in fighting doesn't illustrate your point -- it's a natural decline; i.e., it was bound to decline no matter what.

And none of that is supporting your original point that he was somehow providing accountability? How, where, when? They guy has 20 games, 3 points, and 4 fights. They are 1-2-1 in those games where he fought. He has a fight in 25% of his games, which is 6 percent higher than the total league average. In an era where you admit fighting is not needed as much yet he seems to do it more that other players. That to me says he doesn't bring much else to the table. They are 10-10 with him in the lineup and he's -12 and has 24 PIMS in losses and +2 with 14 PIMS in wins with 2 of his 3 points coming in the wins. Which part of the skillset do you think is more valuable to winning.

And yes, I know Plus/Minus is flawed, and yes I know that its a small dataset, but it's a whole lost more evidence than... he brings accountability.

And also, when you throw things out there like an enforcer doesn't do anything to the cap it's just not true every roster spot counts and it doesn't matter how cheap a guy is, he's still taking that much more buying potential and trade value away from other possible deals. And... just for good measure. He's making 925k. Which makes him the highest non-rostered D man we have. That's more than Boqvist, and the same as Koekkoek. 275k above league minimum.

 

[puckjim]

And none of that is supporting your original point that he was somehow providing accountability? How, where, when? They guy has 20 games, 3 points, and 4 fights. They are 1-2-1 in those games where he fought. He has a fight in 25% of his games, which is 6 percent higher than the total league average. In an era where you admit fighting is not needed as much yet he seems to do it more that other players. That to me says he doesn't bring much else to the table. They are 10-10 with him in the lineup and he's -12 and has 24 PIMS in losses and +2 with 14 PIMS in wins with 2 of his 3 points coming in the wins. Which part of the skillset do you think is more valuable to winning.

And yes, I know Plus/Minus is flawed, and yes I know that its a small dataset, but it's a whole lost more evidence than... he brings accountability.

And also, when you throw things out there like an enforcer doesn't do anything to the cap it's just not true every roster spot counts and it doesn't matter how cheap a guy is, he's still taking that much more buying potential and trade value away from other possible deals. And... just for good measure. He's making 925k. Which makes him the highest non-rostered D man we have. That's more than Boqvist, and the same as Koekkoek. 275k above league minimum.

Evidenced by the Blackhawks having to play 7 defensemen a few weeks ago because they couldn't afford to fill a spot

 

[Granada]

And none of that is supporting your original point that he was somehow providing accountability? How, where, when? They guy has 20 games, 3 points, and 4 fights. They are 1-2-1 in those games where he fought. He has a fight in 25% of his games, which is 6 percent higher than the total league average. In an era where you admit fighting is not needed as much yet he seems to do it more that other players. That to me says he doesn't bring much else to the table. They are 10-10 with him in the lineup and he's -12 and has 24 PIMS in losses and +2 with 14 PIMS in wins with 2 of his 3 points coming in the wins. Which part of the skillset do you think is more valuable to winning.

And yes, I know Plus/Minus is flawed, and yes I know that its a small dataset, but it's a whole lost more evidence than... he brings accountability.

And also, when you throw things out there like an enforcer doesn't do anything to the cap it's just not true every roster spot counts and it doesn't matter how cheap a guy is, he's still taking that much more buying potential and trade value away from other possible deals. And... just for good measure. He's making 925k. Which makes him the highest non-rostered D man we have. That's more than Boqvist, and the same as Koekkoek. 275k above league minimum.

Um, what?

Again, my proof is from the players themselves. Keith, Kane, Toews have all gone on record, publicly stating in interviews that sticking up for teammates and/or having someone stick up for you goes a long way for chemistry and team comraderie. My proof is the players' statements themselves

Also, who do you think persuaded Bowman to get Tootoo in the first place? Keith and Seabrook.

Also, it's true: enforcers are normally near the league minimum. If you're fine with giving any player a million dollar bonus, you should be fine with giving a 13th forward an enforcer salary, with regard to Cap -- many GM's are, that's why they still exist, even today. You're not breaking the bank on an enforcer if you're a GM.

 

[Granada]

None of those guys made any difference

That's not the argument. The argument, is that players like them became extinct in the Cap era. They didn't.

 

[MassHavoc]

That's not the argument. The argument, is that players like them became extinct in the Cap era. They didn't.

What exactly are players supposed to say about teammates? Yeah... i like the energy, but it's just really not what this team needs right now, what I'd love to see is someone who can actually put up some points. And Jordin Tootoo is a prime example of why they aren't as relevant anymore and why you never never never let players talk you into getting another player. Dude was on his last leg and retired after the season didn't he? I can't remember the last time I saw an article where a player said we just really need a guy who can fight on this team.

 

[anotheridiot]

Evidenced by the Blackhawks having to play 7 defensemen a few weeks ago because they couldn't afford to fill a spot

I thought a few weeks ago they played 7 defensemen because the other team played 7 defensemen. After that game, the hawks had to dress 19 for a game due to injury and not putting any of them on IR to gain a man.

When Carbomb got here, why was he put on the line with Kane and Toews? For his hockey prowess? Finesse game, one time efficiency? No, he was on that line so Kane and Toews did not have to take shit from anyone since we had no d men who were willing to hit anyone anymore.

I dont know how these two most talented NHL players felt about getting beat to hell and nobody having their backs. Maybe Toews would not have gotten those 5 concussions over a few week period if they played real hockey.

 

[Granada]

What exactly are players supposed to say about teammates? Yeah... i like the energy, but it's just really not what this team needs right now, what I'd love to see is someone who can actually put up some points. And Jordin Tootoo is a prime example of why they aren't as relevant anymore and why you never never never let players talk you into getting another player. Dude was on his last leg and retired after the season didn't he? I can't remember the last time I saw an article where a player said we just really need a guy who can fight on this team.

Let me say this again: Keith and Seabrook lobbied the GM to get Tootoo -- before they were ever asked and/or made public statements about him. So that logic doesn't fly. Players appreciate guys like Tootoo -- even Cup-winning veterans, like Keith and Seabrook -- whether you like it or not.

And Tootoo was fine. He was by far the most successful enforcer in the Hawks' resurgence era, and his utter beat-down of Rousel was worth the peanuts he was paid. He also came to the aid of Kane many times -- if you honestly think that Kane simply doesn't appreciate that, or that it "doesn't matter," you're bonkers. These guys are human.

 

[Granada]

I can't remember the last time I saw an article where a player said we just really need a guy who can fight on this team.

Here's one, and from the Captain himself:

https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/...-opponents-taking-liberties-with-best-players

 

[puckjim]

I thought a few weeks ago they played 7 defensemen because the other team played 7 defensemen. After that game, the hawks had to dress 19 for a game due to injury and not putting any of them on IR to gain a man.

When Carbomb got here, why was he put on the line with Kane and Toews? For his hockey prowess? Finesse game, one time efficiency? No, he was on that line so Kane and Toews did not have to take shit from anyone since we had no d men who were willing to hit anyone anymore.

I dont know how these two most talented NHL players felt about getting beat to hell and nobody having their backs. Maybe Toews would not have gotten those 5 concussions over a few week period if they played real hockey.

Because Joel Quenneville is a meatball.

 

[puckjim]

Here's one, and from the Captain himself:

https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/...-opponents-taking-liberties-with-best-players

What players have to say about the roster is irrelevant.

Gilbert exacted nothing, and is back where he belongs, in the flea circus that is the AHL.

 

[Granada]

What players have to say about the roster is irrelevant.

Gilbert exacted nothing, and is back where he belongs, in the flea circus that is the AHL.

Yeah, you're right --what actual players say doesn't matter at all. All that matters is what random guys like us say on a message board, who have never played the sport professionally. Makes complete sense.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

I swear the topic was 2020 rumour mill.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'm seeing some chicago articles saying

1. TVR (Canes) and Frolik(Sabres) could be options to return
2. Vantennan, Woods, or Simmonds from the Devils


Thoughts?

We have about 13.5 million.

Which I say to sign Lehnar with long term, and trade him if he won't sign. Still leaves room for a forward and defender.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

I'm seeing some chicago articles saying

1. TVR (Canes) and Frolik(Sabres) could be options to return
2. Vantennan, Woods, or Simmonds from the Devils


Thoughts?

We have about 13.5 million.

Which I say to sign Lehnar with long term, and trade him if he won't sign. Still leaves room for a forward and defender.

Woods as in Tiger Woods ?

 

[puckjim]

I'm in Las Vegas and Ryan Reeves is the Cities favorite player. Its a hard town, much like south Chicago, and Reeves is in every commercial.

Yeah...And John Scott made the all star game.