2021-2022 IGT Masterthread

[Scoot26]

Is he the best player in the NBA? No. Has he been the best player so far this year? Yes.

Yeah. Similar to rose’s mvp year. He wasn’t the best player in the league. But no player was more important to his teams success

It's either Curry, Durant, Jokic, Paul, or DeRozan for MVP. If Butler had more games under his belt, he would have been in the mix. Giannis is obviously still Giannis and is lifting the Bucks up but he missed a few games early and Bucks got off to a slow start. Jokic is having a statistical season for the ages. I'd have a hard time not giving the MVP to DeMar. He's been CLUTCH down the stretch of games consistently.

I still think its Curry's MVP to lose, regardless of what the Bulls end up doing. I'm interested to see how things flush out once the COVID wave ends and teams are all back to full strength.

As far as Rose's MVP, his numbers weren't gaudy, but they were very good, and it was clear, by far, he was the best player on the team, and most responsible for their rise. While LeBron had an argument for MVP that year, he was sharing the limelight with a fellow top 5 player and another top 15-20 player. Plus Miami played under people's expectations that season.

I think Curry, Durant, Giannis will outvote DeMar in the end. The only way DeMar gets up further would be for the Bulls to stay in 1st and pull away from the Nets & Bucks. It'd really have to be like Rose in 2010-11, but DeMar probably still isn't winning.

 

[Scoot26]

I’d still vote Curry because of Lavine being better than anybody Stephen has right now.
I wouldn’t mind giving DeRozan/Lavine a combo award, like share the MVP…but I couldn’t even choose between them for team MVP.

This is really the knock on DeMar is that 1) The Warriors have a better record. 2) Curry is by far the best player on that team. Those two things will get him many more first place votes than DeMar, who may gets a lot of split votes with Lavine.

But, I don't really see anyone saying DeMar should be the actual MVP. Even here we agree he's a candidate, but not a winner.

 

[knoxville7]

This is really the knock on DeMar is that 1) The Warriors have a better record. 2) Curry is by far the best player on that team. Those two things will get him many more first place votes than DeMar, who may gets a lot of split votes with Lavine.

But, I don't really see anyone saying DeMar should be the actual MVP. Even here we agree he's a candidate, but not a winner.

Yeah, it’s not a knock on Demar by any means…but it’s debatable if he’s the best player on the Bulls, whereas with curry it’s clear he’s the best player on the warriors

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Yeah, it’s not a knock on Demar by any means…but it’s debatable if he’s the best player on the Bulls, whereas with curry it’s clear he’s the best player on the warriors

I think it's pretty clear that he has an edge over LaVine as the best player on the Bulls even though their per game statistics are pretty identical. DeRozan has been getting it done in the 4th quarter. But I agree, it's going to be difficult for him to get the MVP award because there's a lot of stiff competition in the NBA right now for it.

 

[knoxville7]

I think it's pretty clear that he has an edge over LaVine as the best player on the Bulls even though their per game statistics are pretty identical. DeRozan has been getting it done in the 4th quarter. But I agree, it's going to be difficult for him to get the MVP award because there's a lot of stiff competition in the NBA right now for it.

You’re entitled to THINK whatever you wish. Just know the actual advanced stats say Lavine has been the better player this season.

VORP
Lavine 1.8
DeRozan 1.3

And in case you’re not familiar with it…a 0.5 margin isn’t some splitting hairs difference, either

 

[Enasic]

Welp there’s that VORP again lol

All jokes aside, anything is debatable but I think it’s pretty clear that Demar is the best player on the team. He’s not miles ahead of LaVine, but I’d wager most fans and media would rank Demar ahead

 

[knoxville7]

Welp there’s that VORP again lol

All jokes aside, anything is debatable but I think it’s pretty clear that Demar is the best player on the team. He’s not miles ahead of LaVine, but I’d wager most fans and media would rank Demar ahead

Yes, the two groups that know so much

If you want to ignore what the WAR of basketball is telling you, then by all means…you’re entitled to do so as well

Not sure why you’d want to ignore the most accurate way of judging players statistically there is, but you’re entitled to do it

 

[Enasic]

Yes, the two groups that know so much

If you want to ignore what the WAR of basketball is telling you, then by all means…you’re entitled to do so as well

Not sure why you’d want to ignore the most accurate way of judging players statistically there is, but you’re entitled to do it

We fundamentally disagree on VORP. You’d be hard pressed to find many people who would rank LaVine over Demar this year. Demar also has a higher PER and WS/48 and has obviously been the alpha player in clutch moments…demanding and taking those shots motor often than not. He also gets to the line more and turns it over less despite a higher USG%

 

[knoxville7]

We fundamentally disagree on VORP. You’d be hard pressed to find many people who would rank LaVine over Demar this year. Demar also has a higher PER and WS/48 and has obviously been the alpha player in clutch moments…demanding and taking those shots motor often than not. He also gets to the line more and turns it over less despite a higher USG%

Yet, there’s clearly many other aspects Lavine does better in, otherwise VORP wouldn’t have him ranked above Demar, since it’s a calculation based off of ALL around play

And it’s okay, you don’t like VORP because I do. That doesn’t change its effectiveness

 

[DirtyDutchDiggler]

I just think its nice we can have this conversation. We have a 1a and 1b.

 

[Enasic]

Yet, there’s clearly many other aspects Lavine does better in, otherwise VORP wouldn’t have him ranked above Demar, since it’s a calculation based off of ALL around play

And it’s okay, you don’t like VORP because I do. That doesn’t change its effectiveness

So if I’m understanding correctly, you’re of the opinion that LaVine has been better this year…and that is proven as fact by his higher VORP?

Do you use VORP for all your player evaluations? Whoever has the higher VORP is the better player? Trying to understand your logic here because there is no singular stat, advanced or otherwise that proves player A is better than player B. That determination can only be calculated using multiple stats and of course the eye test comes into play.

Just for fun though, go look at all the players with a higher VORP than DeRozan this year and then come back and tell me more about your gospel stat

Also, I haven’t been a fan of VORP since before I knew who the great Knox even was. It has nothing to do with you liking it…you egomaniac lol

 

[Enasic]

I just think its nice we can have this conversation. We have a 1a and 1b.

Very nice indeed

 

[knoxville7]

So if I’m understanding correctly, you’re of the opinion that LaVine has been better this year…and that is proven as fact by his higher VORP?

Do you use VORP for all your player evaluations? Whoever has the higher VORP is the better player? Trying to understand your logic here because there is no singular stat, advanced or otherwise that proves player A is better than player B. That determination can only be calculated using multiple stats and of course the eye test comes into play.

Just for fun though, go look at all the players with a higher VORP than DeRozan this year and then come back and tell me more about your gospel stat

Don’t be getting upset now, just because someone has a differing opinion and gave you factual reasoning for why

and whomst do you take issue with being ahead of derozan(I haven’t looked at every player ahead of him). I have, however, looked at the top 12, Lavine and above, and I can’t see anyone you take issue with being up there

it’s fine that you don’t like VORP, but to act like it holds no merit or value is just silly. Hell, even @Scoot26 said it’s the metric he puts the most value in, so it’s not like I’m the only person that puts value in that metric

I also started this by simply stating that it’s not some clear cut decision as to whomst has been the best bull this season and gave a reason why. Not sure why you’re trying to make such a fuss over it. It’s not that I’m knocking Demar, it’s just that’s how good ZL has been this season

 

[Enasic]

Don’t be getting upset now, just because someone has a differing opinion and gave you factual reasoning for why

and whomst do you take issue with being ahead of derozan(I haven’t looked at every player ahead of him). I have, however, looked at the top 12, Lavine and above, and I can’t see anyone you take issue with being up there

it’s fine that you don’t like VORP, but to act like it holds no merit or value is just silly. Hell, even @Scoot26 said it’s the metric he puts the most value in, so it’s not like I’m the only person that puts value in that metric

I also started this by simply stating that it’s not some clear cut decision as to whomst has been the best bull this season and gave a reason why. Not sure why you’re trying to make such a fuss over it. It’s not that I’m knocking Demar, it’s just that’s how good ZL has been this season

Lol not upset…

2021-22 NBA Player Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com

Advanced players statistics for the 2021-22 NBA season

www.basketball-reference.com

DeRozan is ranked 30th in VORP. Does that seem like this all encompassing holy grail stat to you? Don’t be salty because your holier than thou stat is flimsy and not as amaze balls as you’re hyping it

I suppose it has a place in the evaluations along with PER, WS/48, TS%, USG% etc, but it’s certainly not a one and done determination metric.

I do agree though…Demar and LaVine are close. If I had to pick just one mvp of the bulls though, it’d be Demar

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Personally I'd say coby white is the bulls mvp

 

[Enasic]

Personally I'd say coby white is the bulls mvp

 

[knoxville7]

Lol not upset…

2021-22 NBA Player Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com

Advanced players statistics for the 2021-22 NBA season

www.basketball-reference.com

DeRozan is ranked 30th in VORP. Does that seem like this all encompassing holy grail stat to you? Don’t be salty because your holier than thou stat is flimsy and not as amaze balls as you’re hyping it

I suppose it has a place in the evaluations along with PER, WS/48, TS%, USG% etc, but it’s certainly not a one and done determination metric.

I do agree though…Demar and LaVine are close. If I had to pick just one mvp of the bulls though, it’d be Demar

I never claimed it to be the only measurement anyone should look at. Nice try strawman

let me know when you’re not too mad and can have a rational discussion

 

[Raskolnikov]

Welp there’s that VORP again lol

All jokes aside, anything is debatable but I think it’s pretty clear that Demar is the best player on the team. He’s not miles ahead of LaVine, but I’d wager most fans and media would rank Demar ahead

I don’t. He’s more mature and always been a winner. Zach needs him but that doesn’t mean he’s better.
We’ve seen now with COVID that Lavine/DeRozan is a poor mans jordan/pippen…but I should probably call them the upper middle class or upper management version.
But they are VITAL. They need each other.
Ball has been the high level role player we now love and more. And he might be vital if we didn’t have so many options at guard right now. You can aproximate his non-playoff value for brief stretches with a combination of White/Ayo/Caruso

 

[Raskolnikov]

This is the best we will ever see of DeRozan. IMO.
Hopefully he stays and Williams/Ball continue to grow into his diminishing void as age sets in.
This is an interesting playoffs.
I thought last year was the weakest NBA champion crowning in terms of playoff gauntlet although the Bucks were the only worthy team.

this year might be worse so far, no team is clicking on all pistons. The Warriors/Nets benches and the Bulls stars and depth have been the stories so far. Durant and Curry obviously increase everyone’s ability around them. Jokic rounds out my top 3 current players. The Suns bare an honorable mention.

 

[knoxville7]

Lavine with a better VORP, TS%, and +-

but no argument or case for him being the better player can be made…got it

all that was being claimed was that a case for ZL being more valuable can be made