2022-2023 Bulls IGT Megathread

Enasic

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It was never good enough, nor was it ever really in question that it was. Probably the most disappointing thing about this current team is the offense. I can, to a degree, understand the defensive woes and (lazily) blame it on personnel, but I was really expecting more out of this offense. Alas, they can't seem to ever be able to shoot 3s consistently (at least they're not Lakers bad? but it feels that way), and now in this game they can't even make a simple pass. This is a team that should be able to put up points with ease but if they're not in transition it feels like such a struggle.

The team can basically hard reset after this season though, it's not 7 years of sucking and failed draft picks necessarily. No one's taking Lonzo but you can flip most anyone else if you wanted
To me it’s a faulty core and poor coaching. It’s extremely difficult to build a good team when your 3 best players can’t play defense.

Offensively, like you, I’m kind of at a loss. Everything is a struggle. They’re extremely sloppy, make terrible decisions, and seem generally lost for large stretches. Does AK have any interest in re-signing Vuc? If not, might as well trade him at the deadline. If he does plan to re-sign Vuc, might want to think long and hard about trading one of Zach/DeMar. I maintain Zach isn’t anywhere near a max level impact type of player, and he’s prone to a lot of dumb decisions and bad turnovers. DeMar is consistently great offensively but not a good defender, is 33, and probably has the highest trade value of the 3.
 
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knoxville7

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To me it’s a faulty core and poor coaching. It’s extremely difficult to build a good team when your 3 best players can’t play defense.

Offensively, like you, I’m kind of at a loss. Everything is a struggle. They’re extremely sloppy, make terrible decisions, and seem generally lost for large stretches. Does AK have any interest in re-signing Vuc? If not, might as well trade him at the deadline. If he does plan to re-sign Vuc, might want to think long and hard about trading one of Zach/DeMar. I maintain Zach isn’t anywhere near a max level impact type of player, and he’s prone to a lot of dumb decisions and bad turnovers. DeMar is consistently great offensively but not a good defender, is 33, and probably has the highest trade value of the 3.
Demar is consistently great offensively at getting his own shot. Problem is, he ignores a lot of open shooters while doing so. It’s stagnant offense still. 4 guys standing around watching demar dribble to his spots
 

Enasic

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Demar is consistently great offensively at getting his own shot. Problem is, he ignores a lot of open shooters while doing so. It’s stagnant offense still. 4 guys standing around watching demar dribble to his spots

When you’re as efficient as DeMar is, it’s less of a concern. But yes, he is very ball dominant and the ball can stick at times. LaVine is just as guilty as this when he just makes up his mind that he’s going to get a shot up no matter what.

DeMar is much better at that type of style though. Zach doesn’t really have any spots on the floor and plays out of control. The offense as a whole just lacks structure. It’s clear they play best when the offense runs through Vuc but they still refuse to do it. Either way, the roster construction needs some work
 

knoxville7

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When you’re as efficient as DeMar is, it’s less of a concern. But yes, he is very ball dominant and the ball can stick at times. LaVine is just as guilty as this when he just makes up his mind that he’s going to get a shot up no matter what.

DeMar is much better at that type of style though. Zach doesn’t really have any spots on the floor and plays out of control. The offense as a whole just lacks structure. It’s clear they play best when the offense runs through Vuc but they still refuse to do it. Either way, the roster construction needs some work
Zach is guilty of it some, yes…however, it’s not to the same degree demar does it IMO. ZL has been a more willing passer this year, sometimes overly forcing passes tbh. Most of his turnovers have been trying to feed the ball into the paint. Demar constantly passes up wide open corner 3 shooters to instead keep dribbling and pump faking in his spots

And yes, demar is better at getting to his spots and getting shots(in particular getting fouled), but it’s not good offense. You watch him work hard for 20 seconds to get two points, then the other team actually runs some offense and gets an easy 3 pointer just simply by moving the ball

It’s fine to have 1 guy like that on your team but then you factor in ZL is there already and it’s just bad offense. Bulls should trade DD IMO while he still has this high value. But it ain’t happening
 

knoxville7

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Like if this was a 1 on 1 basketball league, demar derozan would crush it. But it’s not
 

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To a degree I can understand getting to a point where the team is like "we need a basket, let's give Demar an iso", but this game it was like that for the entire team. Meanwhile you have Denver on the other hand just picking them apart with ball movement and player movement. What's even more annoying is that you know the Bulls are capable of the same thing but for whatever reason they just don't. I put that on BD because no matter what players you have on the team, they should at least be able to move around.

Derozan averaged nearly 7 assists per game in San Antonio his final year (6+ in his tenure), it's not like he can't make plays for others. It's up to BD to make the system function in a way to make sure of it.

Pick and roll or working the ball into Vuc also generally seems to result in good things, but we rarely do it. That's on BD. Strangely enough, when Dragic and Drummond are in the game what do they do? Pick and roll...and it usually results in good things and is part of the reason the bench unit does well. I appreciate Vuc shooting less 3s this year, but it seems like that has also come with him just shooting less in general. He's an all star level talent, use him that way.

If you're going to iso Demar, let him do it out of the mid post, Kobe/MJ style. He's so good in that range and usually teams will double because they know what will happen if they don't. Double teams gives opportunities for others to score and forces players to move or you are clearly just trying to give away possessions. We saw it vs Toronto in back to back games, we don't need Demar to shoot every time to score points, we can use him as a decoy.

To me those are all coaching things, and there's so many other things I could point out. I would find it shocking if these pro coaches couldn't see the same thing.
 

Enasic

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Zach is guilty of it some, yes…however, it’s not to the same degree demar does it IMO. ZL has been a more willing passer this year, sometimes overly forcing passes tbh. Most of his turnovers have been trying to feed the ball into the paint. Demar constantly passes up wide open corner 3 shooters to instead keep dribbling and pump faking in his spots

And yes, demar is better at getting to his spots and getting shots(in particular getting fouled), but it’s not good offense. You watch him work hard for 20 seconds to get two points, then the other team actually runs some offense and gets an easy 3 pointer just simply by moving the ball

It’s fine to have 1 guy like that on your team but then you factor in ZL is there already and it’s just bad offense. Bulls should trade DD IMO while he still has this high value. But it ain’t happening

DeMar is a no brainer to trade. Bulls aren’t good, they don’t have cap/pick capital to make the necessary improvements in the off-season. There’s probably 10+ teams who would be willing to put together a legit package for DeMar. What’s the upside in keeping him? 6-8 seed and a 1st round exit? Not very enticing.

Same goes for Vuc and Zach. No one on the team should be untouchable. This team needs a complete adjustment in their roster construction. Bulls are essentially in the exact same spot they were in before they traded Jimmy. Maybe good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to beat anyone and unable to add real talent through FA or draft.
 

knoxville7

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DeMar is a no brainer to trade. Bulls aren’t good, they don’t have cap/pick capital to make the necessary improvements in the off-season. There’s probably 10+ teams who would be willing to put together a legit package for DeMar. What’s the upside in keeping him? 6-8 seed and a 1st round exit? Not very enticing.

Same goes for Vuc and Zach. No one on the team should be untouchable. This team needs a complete adjustment in their roster construction. Bulls are essentially in the exact same spot they were in before they traded Jimmy. Maybe good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to beat anyone and unable to add real talent through FA or draft.
Vuc, sure. Expiring contract

ZL isn’t getting traded. Not because he’s untouchable, but because he just signed the contract this offseason. It would be a terrible look to trade the guy a few months after signing him. Free agents already supposedly don’t wanna come to Chicago, it’d make it even worse to do something like that. Players talk
 

clonetrooper264

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DeMar is a no brainer to trade. Bulls aren’t good, they don’t have cap/pick capital to make the necessary improvements in the off-season. There’s probably 10+ teams who would be willing to put together a legit package for DeMar. What’s the upside in keeping him? 6-8 seed and a 1st round exit? Not very enticing.

Same goes for Vuc and Zach. No one on the team should be untouchable. This team needs a complete adjustment in their roster construction. Bulls are essentially in the exact same spot they were in before they traded Jimmy. Maybe good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to beat anyone and unable to add real talent through FA or draft.
Just to play devil's advocate, what assets are you really going to get back for any of these guys though? You're definitely not getting a star back, unless you want to play into ESPN's infatuation with Anthony Davis or Westbrook being traded off the Lakers (not that either of them would improve the situation here). You're definitely not getting a draft pick in this year's draft thanks to the tank for Wemby sweepstakes. They can certainly easily be traded for whatever, but what are you hoping to get other than cap space?
 

Enasic

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Vuc, sure. Expiring contract

ZL isn’t getting traded. Not because he’s untouchable, but because he just signed the contract this offseason. It would be a terrible look to trade the guy a few months after signing him. Free agents already supposedly don’t wanna come to Chicago, it’d make it even worse to do something like that. Players talk

I don’t really disagree that it’s unlikely. But at the end of the day it’s a business and if the Bulls could get a favorable deal, I wouldn’t let optics prevent it from happening. Kind of a moot point though because I don’t see AK going that route this season.
 

Enasic

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Just to play devil's advocate, what assets are you really going to get back for any of these guys though? You're definitely not getting a star back, unless you want to play into ESPN's infatuation with Anthony Davis or Westbrook being traded off the Lakers (not that either of them would improve the situation here). You're definitely not getting a draft pick in this year's draft thanks to the tank for Wemby sweepstakes. They can certainly easily be traded for whatever, but what are you hoping to get other than cap space?

Young player(s) with potential, 1st round pick(s), expiring deals, 2 way players. There would definitely be a market for all 3 of those guys. It’s not like they don’t have value. Now I’m not saying trade them for peanuts, but all 3 could be very enticing for other teams depending on their situation.
 

knoxville7

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Just to play devil's advocate, what assets are you really going to get back for any of these guys though? You're definitely not getting a star back, unless you want to play into ESPN's infatuation with Anthony Davis or Westbrook being traded off the Lakers (not that either of them would improve the situation here). You're definitely not getting a draft pick in this year's draft thanks to the tank for Wemby sweepstakes. They can certainly easily be traded for whatever, but what are you hoping to get other than cap space?
Wemby sweepstakes doesn’t impact it at all, as any team trading for demar would be a playoff team. It’d be the later half of the first round for any pick(s).
 

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Young player(s) with potential, 1st round pick(s), expiring deals, 2 way players. There would definitely be a market for all 3 of those guys. It’s not like they don’t have value. Now I’m not saying trade them for peanuts, but all 3 could be very enticing for other teams depending on their situation.
Again devil's advocate. Which team is going to give up a young prospect for an aging Demar or Vuc? Take a team like Detroit, surely they're not going to flip their young stud Cade Cunningham. Your best bet is then maybe Jaden Ivey. Then you have to throw in someone like Bogdanovic (also expiring) just to match salary. A solid trade, but very reliant on a team being willing to give up that young prospect. In Detroit's case, I don't think they would consider it as they're building for the future and Demar doesn't fit that timeline.

Zach has the most long term appeal of the bunch of course, but to Knox's point does that tarnish your reputation with players who you would then look to sign with the cap space? It's a true zero loyalty move to flip Zach one season after maxing him.



*I am aware that Zach, Demar, and Vuc do have actual trade value
 

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Wemby sweepstakes doesn’t impact it at all, as any team trading for demar would be a playoff team. It’d be the later half of the first round for any pick(s).
Arguably, that just makes it worse for the Bulls. Unless you're maybe able to somehow swap with another underperforming team and get a good player back. Like somehow trading Vuc for KAT or Demar for Klay Thompson or something
 

Enasic

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Again devil's advocate. Which team is going to give up a young prospect for an aging Demar or Vuc? Take a team like Detroit, surely they're not going to flip their young stud Cade Cunningham. Your best bet is then maybe Jaden Ivey. Then you have to throw in someone like Bogdanovic (also expiring) just to match salary. A solid trade, but very reliant on a team being willing to give up that young prospect. In Detroit's case, I don't think they would consider it as they're building for the future and Demar doesn't fit that timeline.

Zach has the most long term appeal of the bunch of course, but to Knox's point does that tarnish your reputation with players who you would then look to sign with the cap space? It's a true zero loyalty move to flip Zach one season after maxing him.



*I am aware that Zach, Demar, and Vuc do have actual trade value

I haven’t spent any time in the trade machine going around the league looking for potential trades. I’m thinking more in generalities. Those 3 have trade value. The bulls aren’t good. Vuc is a FA. DeMar would be a hot commodity for teams on the cusp or contending teams. Again, not saying to trade them for garbage but I think it would be a good idea to be shopping.
 

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I haven’t spent any time in the trade machine going around the league looking for potential trades. I’m thinking more in generalities. Those 3 have trade value. The bulls aren’t good. Vuc is a FA. DeMar would be a hot commodity for teams on the cusp or contending teams. Again, not saying to trade them for garbage but I think it would be a good idea to be shopping.
It's easy to think in generalities, it's harder to think of true solutions. But I'm the type of guy who tries to find solutions even when people aren't even asking for it ?
 

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The Bulls kinda made their bed with what they want to be right now. They traded for Vuc, re-signed LaVine. It is what it is.
 

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The Bulls kinda made their bed with what they want to be right now. They traded for Vuc, re-signed LaVine. It is what it is.
Indeed. Pretty sure they were committed to this core for ~3 years or so. Mentioned it in the offseason as well.
 

Enasic

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It's easy to think in generalities, it's harder to think of true solutions. But I'm the type of guy who tries to find solutions even when people aren't even asking for it ?

I’m sure there would be at least a couple viable trade possibilities. When I get more time I’ll look into it further.

Alternatively, the Bulls could continue on their current path and continue to be on the low end of mediocrity. We’re used to it as Bulls fans. I would rather AKME not go the Garpax route though and out band aid over band aid and hope for the best. Hopefully they learned their lesson and realize you need to move fast and be proactive. Shit happens and plans change. Need to be adaptable and flexible. Again, the upside in keeping this core together and shuffling around some role players is a 6-8 seed and a 1st round exit. Especially with BD at the helm.
 

knoxville7

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Arguably, that just makes it worse for the Bulls. Unless you're maybe able to somehow swap with another underperforming team and get a good player back. Like somehow trading Vuc for KAT or Demar for Klay Thompson or something
I think it’s just the realistic expectation for the return on a Demar trade. Pick up a first rounder or two in the 2nd half of the first round and some expiring contract(s) and a young player
 

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