2022-2023 Bulls IGT Megathread

[clonetrooper264]

I think it’s just the realistic expectation for the return on a Demar trade. Pick up a first rounder or two in the 2nd half of the first round and some expiring contract(s) and a young player

I'm sure that would be doable with almost any team, I just don't see how that's an improvement for the Bulls unless that young player was a lotto pick. Maybe there's some weird scenario where you could maybe pry Maxey away from the Sixers, but I don't see it.

But idk maybe AKME would do better with a later pick given their past

 

[knoxville7]

I'm sure that would be doable with almost any team, I just don't see how that's an improvement for the Bulls unless that young player was a lotto pick. Maybe there's some weird scenario where you could maybe pry Maxey away from the Sixers, but I don't see it.

But idk maybe AKME would do better with a later pick given their past

It’s more about re creating roster flexibility and gaining assets than gaining some amazing prospect with the draft pick

 

[clonetrooper264]

I’m sure there would be at least a couple viable trade possibilities. When I get more time I’ll look into it further.

Alternatively, the Bulls could continue on their current path and continue to be on the low end of mediocrity. We’re used to it as Bulls fans. I would rather AKME not go the Garpax route though and out band aid over band aid and hope for the best. Hopefully they learned their lesson and realize you need to move fast and be proactive. Shit happens and plans change. Need to be adaptable and flexible. Again, the upside in keeping this core together and shuffling around some role players is a 6-8 seed and a 1st round exit. Especially with BD at the helm.

I mean, you could just go all the way and say it won't matter so long as BD is at the helm

 

[clonetrooper264]

It’s more about re creating roster flexibility and gaining assets than gaining some amazing prospect with the draft pick

I guess. "Flexibility" to me just sounds like cap space. You'll get your cap space in a couple years anyway, Demar is expiring next season. To everyone's point Demar is a very movable asset, but to what end? What's the plan to improve right away? If there is no plan, you might as well let this core play out this season, maybe see what you can get for Vuc at the deadline since he's out after this season anyway.

FA class is better in 2 years anyway imo.

 

[Enasic]

I guess. "Flexibility" to me just sounds like cap space. You'll get your cap space in a couple years anyway, Demar is expiring next season. To everyone's point Demar is a very movable asset, but to what end? What's the plan to improve right away? If there is no plan, you might as well let this core play out this season, maybe see what you can get for Vuc at the deadline since he's out after this season anyway.

FA class is better in 2 years anyway imo.

Def would be shopping Vuc too.

Regarding DeMar, I think you’re selling his value short. I wouldn’t trade him just for cap space, but there’s little doubt he wouldn’t bring back a draft pick or two and/or a young player with potential. I’d rather that then just lose him for nothing next season. Only way that would make sense is if you believe the Bulls could enter the championship conversation during that span which unlikely at best, if not impossible.

 

[knoxville7]

I guess. "Flexibility" to me just sounds like cap space. You'll get your cap space in a couple years anyway, Demar is expiring next season. To everyone's point Demar is a very movable asset, but to what end? What's the plan to improve right away? If there is no plan, you might as well let this core play out this season, maybe see what you can get for Vuc at the deadline since he's out after this season anyway.

FA class is better in 2 years anyway imo.

I mean, if you want to delay fixing things by 2 years then sure, hold on to Demar till his contract is up. But the bulls aren’t going to get better with Demar on the roster. There’s no way to do it currently. They are good enough to not be in the lottery but not good enough to make much noise if any. So how do you go about making this team better in the next two years, while you wait for demars contract to run its course?

 

[Enasic]

I mean, you could just go all the way and say it won't matter so long as BD is at the helm

I def think the Bulls could use a better coach than BD but the roster is still flawed and not a championship level roster. Likely not even a top 4 seed with better coaching in a more competitive east.

I think the AK honeymoon is over.

BD- Looked good at the time, but I have to credit Scottie pippen for kind of trashing the hire at the time. Looks like he knew what he was talking about. Extremely unimpressed by BD in pretty much every facet other than talking basketball in interviews. He’s uninspiring to say the least.

Pat Williams - Jury is still out but yeah, looking like a bad pick for now. Halliburton would have looked great on this team and would have avoided AK paying lonzo

Lonzo- NO was quick to let him go. AK thought maybe he’d magically be injury free but that hasn’t worked out very well.

Vuc- Trading a young big and multiple 1sts for a former all star should yield some great results. So far hasn’t. Bulls would be in much better shape going forward with WCJ and those draft picks.

Those are some pretty big warts. The Bulls can throw their hands up and say they’re stuck with this core for another year, but in reality they’re not. There are avenues to maneuver and adjust the plan and be proactive. My guess though is they won’t and they’ll try to claw their way into the playoffs this year and next. Maybe firing BD along the way

 

[clonetrooper264]

Def would be shopping Vuc too.

Regarding DeMar, I think you’re selling his value short. I wouldn’t trade him just for cap space, but there’s little doubt he wouldn’t bring back a draft pick or two and/or a young player with potential. I’d rather that then just lose him for nothing next season. Only way that would make sense is if you believe the Bulls could enter the championship conversation during that span which unlikely at best, if not impossible.

Yeah you can definitely get some type of draft pick back for Demar, probably more if you trade him to a team trying to get over the hump (heh, like us I guess you could say). A team looking to win now will give up some young prospects if needed, just like we did with Vuc.

Again, mostly just playing devil's advocate just to make people think beyond just "blow it up" because it would really suck to blow it up and then suck for another 8 years because we're just hoarding picks and prospects that pan out after they leave

 

[Enasic]

Yeah you can definitely get some type of draft pick back for Demar, probably more if you trade him to a team trying to get over the hump (heh, like us I guess you could say). A team looking to win now will give up some young prospects if needed, just like we did with Vuc.

Again, mostly just playing devil's advocate just to make people think beyond just "blow it up" because it would really suck to blow it up and then suck for another 8 years because we're just hoarding picks and prospects that pan out after they leave

It would come down to the compensation. It would also really suck to watch this level of team for the next 8 years. I don’t know about you, but every game I watch I really question my decision making. They’re just an extremely frustrating team with really nothing exciting or endearing about them

 

[clonetrooper264]

I mean, if you want to delay fixing things by 2 years then sure, hold on to Demar till his contract is up. But the bulls aren’t going to get better with Demar on the roster. There’s no way to do it currently. They are good enough to not be in the lottery but not good enough to make much noise if any. So how do you go about making this team better in the next two years, while you wait for demars contract to run its course?

I argue it is impossible to improve this roster. There is no improvement, only another rebuild.

It feels to me like AKME gave themselves the ability to rebuild around just Zach in 2024 offseason. They're not tied down to anyone beyond Zach long term. So yes you can trade away Demar and Vuc for random players and mid 1sts, but ultimately it's just cap space (because what is the point of trading for 27M of role players) and to me the FA class in 2 years is much better compared to this upcoming one.

If you want to get even more cynical with the stipulation that you need a superstar level player (let's just call this a top 10 NBA talent for simplicity) to actually have a real chance to win anything in this league, then it's an even steeper climb from there because how do you turn anything on this roster into that? You're probably just better off gambling in the draft.

 

[clonetrooper264]

It would come down to the compensation. It would also really suck to watch this level of team for the next 8 years. I don’t know about you, but every game I watch I really question my decision making. They’re just an extremely frustrating team with really nothing exciting or endearing about them

I mean it'd be a no brainer if we could somehow fleece a team like Utah did with Gobert, but good luck with that

This team is mostly frustrating because you know they can do better and should do better

 

[Enasic]

I mean it'd be a no brainer if we could somehow fleece a team like Utah did with Gobert, but good luck with that

This team is mostly frustrating because you know they can do better and should do better

No way they get anywhere near that Gobert package. They don’t need to though in order for a trade to be worth it.

You’re right, they should do better. Some of it is coaching but I think a lot of it is poor decision making and careless mistakes. The other thing is, as meatball as it sounds, they don’t really have any dogs on the team. I think the only guys truly committed to defense is AC and Green and BD has AC guarding 1-4. You can’t have marginal role players being more locked in and committed to defense than your best guys.

Offensively, I really have no idea what they’re trying to do. The offense should run through Vuc with a lot of dive cuts and screens, but everyone just stands around on the perimeter and they’re not a good outside shooting team lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

No way they get anywhere near that Gobert package. They don’t need to though in order for a trade to be worth it.

You’re right, they should do better. Some of it is coaching but I think a lot of it is poor decision making and careless mistakes. The other thing is, as meatball as it sounds, they don’t really have any dogs on the team. I think the only guys truly committed to defense is AC and Green and BD has AC guarding 1-4. You can’t have marginal role players being more locked in and committed to defense than your best guys.

Offensively, I really have no idea what they’re trying to do. The offense should run through Vuc with a lot of dive cuts and screens, but everyone just stands around on the perimeter and they’re not a good outside shooting team lol

Definitely lots of careless mistakes. I mean, how many times can you throw the ball out of bounds before it's clear to you to look before you pass? Lots of stagnant offense with standing around. I mean it's no wonder Pat just stood in the corner for a while, that's probably what he was told to do.

Defensively, idk maybe I'm just stubborn, but I feel like you can still have a decent defense (and weirdly the Bulls defensively rate 7th in the league in defensive rating) without having half the lineup be stud defenders.

 

[knoxville7]

I argue it is impossible to improve this roster. There is no improvement, only another rebuild.

It feels to me like AKME gave themselves the ability to rebuild around just Zach in 2024 offseason. They're not tied down to anyone beyond Zach long term. So yes you can trade away Demar and Vuc for random players and mid 1sts, but ultimately it's just cap space (because what is the point of trading for 27M of role players) and to me the FA class in 2 years is much better compared to this upcoming one.

If you want to get even more cynical with the stipulation that you need a superstar level player (let's just call this a top 10 NBA talent for simplicity) to actually have a real chance to win anything in this league, then it's an even steeper climb from there because how do you turn anything on this roster into that? You're probably just better off gambling in the draft.

It’s impossible so don’t try…got it lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

It’s impossible so don’t try…got it lol

Don't try to improve this core, yeah basically. You want something different, blow it all up and start from scratch.

Though if you have a solution to improving the roster while keeping Lavine/Derozan/Vucevic on the roster please show us the way.

 

[Enasic]

Definitely lots of careless mistakes. I mean, how many times can you throw the ball out of bounds before it's clear to you to look before you pass? Lots of stagnant offense with standing around. I mean it's no wonder Pat just stood in the corner for a while, that's probably what he was told to do.

Defensively, idk maybe I'm just stubborn, but I feel like you can still have a decent defense (and weirdly the Bulls defensively rate 7th in the league in defensive rating) without having half the lineup be stud defenders.

I don’t care what their rating is they suck defensively lol I agree you don’t need half a lineup of stud defenders, but they don’t have a single stud defender in the starting lineup. I think Ayo might be the best of the bunch but Zach, DeMar, Pat, and Vuc are all average and below and those guys could all be downright liabilities at times.

 

[knoxville7]

Don't try to improve this core, yeah basically. You want something different, blow it all up and start from scratch.

Though if you have a solution to improving the roster while keeping Lavine/Derozan/Vucevic on the roster please show us the way.

I believe I was the one saying to look to trade Demar and Vuc, so no. Not sure why you would state such a thing considering the context of this discussion has revolved around trading some of the big 3 on the roster

your issue was that you don’t think there’s any point or anything to gain from trading Demar and/or Vuc, and that’s just cray cray

 

[clonetrooper264]

I don’t care what their rating is they suck defensively lol I agree you don’t need half a lineup of stud defenders, but they don’t have a single stud defender in the starting lineup. I think Ayo might be the best of the bunch but Zach, DeMar, Pat, and Vuc are all average and below and those guys could all be downright liabilities at times.

Imo that's where they really are missing Lonzo. He's not a world beater, but his presence seemed to do something with the defense that has been missing since January

 

[clonetrooper264]

I believe I was the one saying to look to trade Demar and Vuc, so no. Not sure why you would state such a thing considering the context of this discussion has revolved around trading some of the big 3 on the roster

your issue was that you don’t think there’s any point or anything to gain from trading Demar and/or Vuc, and that’s just cray cray

I'll double down so you can laugh at me later when you're right (this is all in good debate). The Bulls as constructed cannot improve within the next two seasons, additionally, unless you rebuild there is no trade scenario involving Demar/Vuc that will improve the team in the short term (2-4 years).

I just don't see any trades involving a core piece where the Bulls get more competitive in the "now" and trading the core away now is just a signal of starting over. And don't get me wrong, that could be the right move for the future success of this team, but in terms of being competitive now, I don't see it. I want them to compete now, they can't seem to do it, so gotta rebuild. That's that.

 

[Enasic]

Imo that's where they really are missing Lonzo. He's not a world beater, but his presence seemed to do something with the defense that has been missing since January

I agree but Bulls can’t count on Lonzo. It sucks, but he’s never been able to stay healthy and that likely doesnt change after yet another knee operation.