[A] Blackhawks Extend Johnny Oduya

[Ton]

Records are an extremely big part of sports



The presidents trophy isn't the same as a 21gm unbeaten streak to start a season ...that's toppled the record by Some other very good teams - and they're one game away from matching MTL's 28gms with a point - 2nd in NHL history. That MTL team was loaded with HOF'ers. So yeah..it is something to be both excited, proud about as an organization. Way different than a presidents trophy. It's history

Okay then, if the Hawks don't win the Cup this year, ask the championship team if they care about Chicago's record. Then ask the Blackhawks what they think about their record, if they get eliminated.



Ultimately there is one prize. It's all nice right now, great for confidence, a nice feather in the cap for the organization etc.. etc.. but in the end only one thing matters.



I wouldn't care if this team made the playoffs with a 6-1-41 record, if they win the Cup it doesn't matter.

 

[the canadian dream]

Dale lets Horton, Booth, GCampbell, Grabner, Seindenberg, Wideman all go for pretty much nothing



He let Garrison go this offseason (who had a pretty good year for them last year)...then signed Kuba to near the same cap hit. Jovaniski to 4+ mil. Versteeg to 4.5mil..may have missed the window to get too dollar for Weiss when he moves him - because he doesn't want to be there at this point



Just saying...he made quite a bit shitty moves there and some wanted to jump the Hawks ship because they give Oduya 3.38 mil for only 3yrs

Dale was collecting picks with some of these deal.



I wouldn't call Booth a big deal. That guy actually sucks and is a bit of a dickhead off the ice. He over achieved in Florida. As a Canuck hes been horribly underachieving and apparently not an easy guy to get along with.



That Horton deal was bizzar considering Wideman came the other way then Dale traded Wideman shortly after for like you said..very little. I agree. But remember Horton didn't want to play in Florida anymore and asked to be traded. Those are the worst situations for GM's and they rarely win in those. The return in those type of deals always seem to end up bad. Wideman would have been at least something had Dale not turned around and traded him making the Horton deal look even worse. That I agree with you on. Bad move.



Grabner never played for Florida. What are you smoking? That was Vancouver who traded him.



G Campbell is a dime a dozen player. Who gives a shit about Greg Campbell? Not a game changer on any team. You can find G Campbell depth from your farm if you are drafting right (something the Panthers don't do..and Im sure thats part of the reason Dale was brought in to Florida to try and correct that...which he hasn't lol..yet).



Seidenberg was going to be a UFA when Dale traded him at the deadline. He wasn't going to resign in Florida so you take what you can get. He got a 2nd rounder for him. That's pretty much what any GM gets for a guy like Seidenberg at the deadline when they are hitting UFA the next season.



The Horton/Wideman mess is the only trade I see that Dale might have botched. Who knows what the **** was happening there accept Horton being a cry baby and forcing a trade. Not sure why Dale traded Wideman though that one I agree with is really odd. I don't remember any other situations involving that trade which would have made it make more sense.

 

[Ton]

Grabner was cut by Florida in training camp, NYI grabbed him on waivers. I'm not too crazy over him anyway, but it was kind of dumb for Dale to trade for him then put him on waivers.

 

[the canadian dream]

I think the recors is very important to the players as something at the very least gives them extreme confidence and something extra to work for when they hit the ice. Everyone can use added motivation in anything they do. The record is nice added motivation to these players and probably has even brought them together closer with the same focus. I can assure you the players are enjoying the record and thinking about it also.



Presidents trophy is a nice reward also. But I think with records like the ones the Hawks broke and are adding onto it gives you more of a "right now" focus. Winning the Presidents trophy Im sure isn't something these players think about when they hit the ice for a game. Chasing records like they did and now adding onto them are more immediate goals which can keep guys skating and focused in the now. That's how I feel anyways. I still wouldn't mind the Hawks winning the Presidents trophy even though it really doesn't mean much. In 10 years Hockey fans will remember the current record to start the season rather than who won the Presidents trophy in 2013.

 

[PatrickShart]

None of those picks are anything. I think the only one of value was Bjustead..who is TBD



FLA traded for Grabner from VAN...waived him after the preseason...and NYI claimed him where he went on to score 54g over 2 seasons. I haven't smoked yet tonight



Garrisson left as well this offseason



Point being...is as Dale has been given the excuse of circumstances there...Stan had his share of cap barriers here. And wasn't given any bit of leeway from quite a bit of people...and has done a stellar job of reloading here.

 

[PatrickShart]

Grabner was cut by Florida in training camp, NYI grabbed him on waivers.

TCD's a fucking moron, Ton...dumb as the day is long

 

[the canadian dream]

Grabner was cut by Florida in training camp, NYI grabbed him on waivers. I'm not too crazy over him anyway, but it was kind of dumb for Dale to trade for him then put him on waivers.

That must have been before Dales time because he was playing with the Canucks farm team in Manitoba in 2006-2010.

 

[xatruio]

said it before, say it again, i like Oduya and have since NJ. I hope he is here longer than the 3 years.

 

[the canadian dream]

Sorry dicks I never knew Grabner ever hit a Florida training camp.



Go **** yourselves.



Vancouver fucked up more by dishing that guy away than Dale did.



So Dale actually traded for Grabner. He gets a point for that. Then loses it for sending him to the AHL when he got picked up on waivers. It's breaking even.

 

[Ton]

I think the recors is very important to the players as something at the very least gives them extreme confidence and something extra to work for when they hit the ice. Everyone can use added motivation in anything they do. The record is nice added motivation to these players and probably has even brought them together closer with the same focus. I can assure you the players are enjoying the record and thinking about it also.



Presidents trophy is a nice reward also. But I think with records like the ones the Hawks broke and are adding onto it gives you more of a "right now" focus. Winning the Presidents trophy Im sure isn't something these players think about when they hit the ice for a game. Chasing records like they did and now adding onto them are more immediate goals which can keep guys skating and focused in the now. That's how I feel anyways. I still wouldn't mind the Hawks winning the Presidents trophy even though it really doesn't mean much. In 10 years Hockey fans will remember the current record to start the season rather than who won the Presidents trophy in 2013.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that... as I said before, everyone should enjoy this record right now... great for momentum moving forward, it's an awesome stepping stone to build on, but these are all "now" statements. If it doesn't result in a Cup at the end of the season, no one is going to gloat about it. To cap off a memorable season you have to win it all. All or nothing.



They get bounced in the 1st round and it will sting even worse knowing how they started... it would almost taint that record and leave a bad taste. Set the bar so high, and the fall down hurts more.



Getting away from the topic at hand here... we'll see where Oduya is at as the season winds down. Last year it seemed like he progressively worsened as the games got tougher. Hope that's not the case this year.

 

[PatrickShart]

I think his 'worsening" is well over blown - and people just wanted a goat



His play wasn't bad...nor were his numbers.



Injuries (and Shaw's suspension) were the bigger factors in the playoffs than anything

 

[the canadian dream]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that... as I said before, everyone should enjoy this record right now... but if it doesn't result in a Cup at the end of the season, no one is going to gloat about it. To cap off a memorable season you have to win it all. All or nothing.



Getting away from the topic at hand here... we'll see where Oduya is at as the season winds down. Last year it seemed like he progressively worsened as the games got tougher. Hope that's not the case this year.

I think his only real struggles were in the playoffs (a couple games at the end of the season weren't perfect but for what he did when he first came to the team he was permitted a couple bad games). But he wasn't a big problem in the playoffs. Not like that no fucking clue Sharp who couldn't do shit against the Yotes. Remember that series was pretty defensive and low scoring. Oduya did his job to keep pucks away. Our forwards esp Sharp didn't do theirs to get pucks past that dick head Smith. Sharp was hitting Geico adds so he wasn't even getting them at the net.



I love Sharp too but honestly he was dreadful in that series. Worst Hawk in my mind. People can ***** about Craw letting in the easy ones in OT but Sharp was fucking lost that entire series. When we needed him most after Hossa got hurt he was even worse.

 

[Ton]

I think his only real struggles were in the playoffs (a couple games at the end of the season weren't perfect but for what he did when he first came to the team he was permitted a couple bad games). But he wasn't a big problem in the playoffs. Not like that no fucking clue Sharp who couldn't do shit against the Yotes. Remember that series was pretty defensive and low scoring. Oduya did his job to keep pucks away. Our forwards esp Sharp didn't do theirs to get pucks past that dick head Smith. Sharp was hitting Geico adds so he wasn't even getting them at the net.



I love Sharp too but honestly he was dreadful in that series. Worst Hawk in my mind. People can ***** about Craw letting in the easy ones in OT but Sharp was fucking lost that entire series. When we needed him most after Hossa got hurt he was even worse.

I'm not really blaming Oduya for that playoff run, I just think he was physically overwhelmed... much like Keith and Leddy struggled for the same reasons, and to a certain extent Hjalmarsson as well. Like Trev said, we got a little bit bigger with Brookbank and Rozsival so in retrospect the Oduya signing is fine. If they would have traded Hjalmarsson, I would have called it a poor move.

 

[PatrickShart]

Oduya has been a huge factor in the resurgence of Hjarllmarsson...taken minutes from Keith, slotted Leddy to number 5..been great on the PK



Well worth 3.383 mil compared to some of these



Other Dman UFA's -

Bryan Allen - 3.5mil

Souray - 3.6mil

Wideman - 5.25mil

Stuart - 3.6

Kuba - 4

Jackmann - 3.1

Carle - 5.5mil

Garrisson - 4.6

 

[the canadian dream]

Can't argue against that. Look at those over-paid fancy pants.

 

[PatrickShart]

 

[Ton]

I wouldn't trade anyone on this team right now, but my two cents on the individuals. I will put my "yes" or "no" based on if I would take them over Oduya in parenthesis.



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other Dman UFA's - [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bryan Allen - 3.5mil: [/font]Doing what he is paid to do, albeit slightly overpaid. I would obviously rather have Oduya, but would still take Allen if I needed a big defenseman on the bottom pairing, preferably for 1 mil less. (no)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Souray - 3.6mil: H[/font]aving a fantastic season for his price, I would take him over Oduya, nearly identical price/term. (yes)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wideman - 5.25mil: [/font]Worth every penny of his contract, stuck on a bad team. I would take him over Oduya. (yes)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stuart - 3.6mil: Worth his contract... having a solid year on another bad team. I actually wanted him in the off-season and would still take him. (maybe)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kuba - 4mil: Never liked him anyway. Wouldn't want him on my team even for 1 mil. (no)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jackman - 3.1mil: In a heartbeat. Very good contract, very good player. (yes)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Carle - 5.5mil: Thought he was overpaid when he signed, still think he's overpaid, but he's a very good player. Contracts aside, he is better. (no)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Garrisson - 4.6mil: Thought he was overrated and overpaid, I'd take Oduya over him. (no)[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Realistically, if I were building a defense today (just theoretically here, not necessarily saying the Hawks), I would take all of those guys except Kuba. I don't think Allen or Garrison are top four defenseman, but I would take them. I wouldn't take Carle at that price, but he is better than Oduya. Would I take Brad Stuart over Oduya? That would be a hard choice. Wideman has a bigger contract but even at that price he is more valuable than Oduya. Souray and Jackman? I would take both over Oduya, Jackman for sure... Souray is a tougher choice because of his age/contract length, but he's playing great, really always has... his contract in Edmonton just ruined his reputation.[/font]

 

[the canadian dream]

The problem with Wideman is he doesn't play defense very well. If you need an offensive blueliner and have someone to put with him who is more sound defensively then Wideman could be your man. He also helps out a PP. Like you said Ton hes not a bad player just on a bad team right now. I think 5.25 is too high for Wideman personally. But I could see the arguments that say its a fair deal. He needs to play around a much more talented team than where he is right now. I thought he did pretty good with the Caps last year on a team with very little defense to begin with..but he had some help up front to get the best traits out of him.

 

[PatrickShart]

I wouldn't trade anyone on this team right now, but my two cents on the individuals. I will put my "yes" or "no" based on if I would take them over Oduya in parenthesis.



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other Dman UFA's - [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bryan Allen - 3.5mil: [/font]Doing what he is paid to do, albeit slightly overpaid. I would obviously rather have Oduya, but would still take Allen if I needed a big defenseman on the bottom pairing, preferably for 1 mil less. (no)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Souray - 3.6mil: H[/font]aving a fantastic season for his price, I would take him over Oduya, nearly identical price/term. (yes)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wideman - 5.25mil: [/font]Worth every penny of his contract, stuck on a bad team. I would take him over Oduya. (yes)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stuart - 3.6mil: Worth his contract... having a solid year on another bad team. I actually wanted him in the off-season and would still take him. (maybe)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kuba - 4mil: Never liked him anyway. Wouldn't want him on my team even for 1 mil. (no)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jackman - 3.1mil: In a heartbeat. Very good contract, very good player. (yes)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Carle - 5.5mil: Thought he was overpaid when he signed, still think he's overpaid, but he's a very good player. Contracts aside, he is better. (no)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Garrisson - 4.6mil: Thought he was overrated and overpaid, I'd take Oduya over him. (no)[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Realistically, if I were building a defense today (just theoretically here, not necessarily saying the Hawks), I would take all of those guys except Kuba. I don't think Allen or Garrison are top four defenseman, but I would take them. I wouldn't take Carle at that price, but he is better than Oduya. Would I take Brad Stuart over Oduya? That would be a hard choice. Wideman has a bigger contract but even at that price he is more valuable than Oduya. Souray and Jackman? I would take both over Oduya, Jackman for sure... Souray is a tougher choice because of his age/contract length, but he's playing great, really always has... his contract in Edmonton just ruined his reputation.[/font]

You may be the high one tonight...



The only one I would want on the top 4 over Oduya on this group would be Souray - because he brings a skill to the PP that no other Hawk has with that cannon. But even then...at 35 and a 3yr deal...and he hasn't played much the last 3yrs would be a tough sign. (And he was only going west coast anyways)



Carle and Wideman...I'd take - but no way at 5+mil...Oduya at 3.3 is way better bang for the buck



Stuart? Not in the top 4 anymore. Too slow



Oduya for the contract and skill set is a steal

 

[Ton]

You may be the high one tonight...



The only one I would want on the top 4 over Oduya on this group would be Souray - because he brings a skill to the PP that no other Hawk has with that cannon. But even then...at 35 and a 3yr deal...and he hasn't played much the last 3yrs would be a tough sign. (And he was only going west coast anyways)



Carle and Wideman...I'd take - but no way at 5+mil...Oduya at 3.3 is way better bang for the buck



Stuart? Not in the top 4 anymore. Too slow



Oduya for the contract and skill set is a steal

Like I said prior... "just theoretically here, not necessarily saying the Hawks"... so I was just going player to player, not necessarily considering the Hawks needs.



If we're talking about on the Hawks today? I wouldn't take any of them over Oduya. Never know though, tomorrow (meaning the playoffs) that opinion could change.



I think Wideman is worth his contract, just not to the Flames since they suck. On a contender, he's worth it.



Carle... he's worth it to Tampa. Anywhere else? He's a $3.5-4 mill player.



I can't argue with that last sentence... at this point Oduya is a steal. Him and Hjalmarsson for that matter.