Adam Wainwright probably out for the season

[theberserkfury]

Yep, I wonder how eager the asshole headhunters in KC would be knowing they gotta step into the target area...err, I mean batters box.

Another thing.....my guess if the Cubs traded Jackson to gthe Cards, he'd win 15 for them. Every MLB player that hits St. Louis turns to gold....no matter how crappy they are.

Well, Masterson was pretty crappy for them last year...

 

[chibears55]

Saw wainwright will be out 9-12 mos. with this injury, so it going to go into next season. ..

 

[Diehardfan]

Don't really see it as losing even if he did that.It's saving them probably close to $16-17 mil plus if they get a decent prospect out of it that also adds.

Neither do i. No way he'll ever do anything here except get his ass handed to him. Just saying that guys for the most part, no matter how much they struggled elsewhere usually do well with the Cards.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Bumgarner rejects idea of DH moving to National League, takes offense at Scherzer’s “wet newspaper” comment

LOS ANGELES – Madison Bumgarner saw Max Scherzer’s comments advocating that the designated hitter should be instituted in both leagues, and asserting that nobody pays to see a pitcher “swinging a wet newspaper.”

Any thoughts on that, Madison?

“Oh, well, my wet newspaper is 34 ½ inches, 33 ½ ounces, and I’m waiting on some new ones right now,” said Bumgarner, asked for comment.

One more thing: Bumgarner hit two grand slams with that newspaper last season.
...

Solid comments from Jake Peavy in the article, too.

Peavy, who pitched six seasons in the AL for the White Sox and Red Sox, joined Bumgarner’s chorus. He prefers NL rules.

“We’d take a ton of strategy out of our game,” Peavy said. “The bench player is so much more important a part of the game. Managers have their say in how the game is played out.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants...akes-offense-scherzers-wet-newspaper-comment/

 

[brett05]

Top three to five managers of all time had this to say

On pitching changes in the American League versus National League: "There's an assumption that somehow pitching (changes) in the National League [are] tougher. It's not; it's easier. ... The reason it's tougher in the American League is every decision that you make about the pitcher is based on your evaluation of who should pitch, how long the in there should pitch and who you should bring in. There are times, a lot of times, it's a really close call. You're splitting hairs. In the National League just enough times to make a difference ... a spot comes up and you've got to (pinch) hit, and you don't have to make that decision. You never have that decision taken away from you in the American League." - Tony La Russa

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/17906/la-russa-on-managing-al-game-tougher

 

[beckdawg]

To me the DH is kind of dumb. We don't have a DH for an all defense no offense SS why have it for pitchers? I mean if you're going to do this why not just go the NFL route with offense and defensive units.

 

[brett05]

One more thing, Bum is a career OPS+ of 28. Not even relatives pay to see him hit which was one of Max's points. In fact which point was it that Bum refuted of Max's?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bumgama01.shtml

 

[brett05]

To me the DH is kind of dumb. We don't have a DH for an all defense no offense SS why have it for pitchers? I mean if you're going to do this why not just go the NFL route with offense and defensive units.

Why shouldn't every guy on defense have to pitch at some point?

EDIT: I believe you actually can do that. Without looking at the rule book, I believe you can DH for a guy in the field. That guy doesn't get to hit. So it could in theory be for a non-pitcher.

 

[beckdawg]

Why shouldn't every guy on defense have to pitch at some point?

EDIT: I believe you actually can do that. Without looking at the rule book, I believe you can DH for a guy in the field. That guy doesn't get to hit. So it could in theory be for a non-pitcher.

My point is that the largest reason people are suggesting a DH as a positive is because pitchers by very nature aren't very good hitters. I frankly see that as irrelevant because a lot of SS/2B(think darwin barney) aren't very good hitters but they still play even in the AL with the DH. Also, I'm not convinced by the argument that more runs is better baseball. Some might view low scoring games as boring but I argue that low scoring games create tension and tension is inherently exciting because one play can change a game.

Additionally, I feel like the DH makes the game too easy. By that I mean that part of the game is not only hitting but defense. Having a DH allows a player like Vogelbach who's probably going to be horrendous as defender to hit at no cost. I don't think that makes for a better game. If hitting is all people care about then why not make games batting practice? Obviously that's being sensationalist but I think you can see the point I'm getting at.

Overall, I feel like the DH devalues a lot of aspects of the game. There's rarely a time to use your bench in the AL because most of the time your top 9 hitters play. Sure it's a more compelling game offensively but that comes at a lot of costs to decision making. A lot of people view chess as a boring game and prefer checkers. I personally view baseball in a similar light. The NL has more decision making and makes it a more complex game to watch. Also, if runs are all that matters there's other ways of approaching it.

I am also bothered that because a pitcher got hurt there is now an outcry. This very play could have happened to any of the 8 other positions and no one would be saying much. It's a part of the game and it happens.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Top three to five managers of all time had this to say



http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/17906/la-russa-on-managing-al-game-tougher

None of that regards the DH. It regards when to pinch hit. It mentions nothing of a double switch, etc.

 

[Parade_Rain]

One more thing, Bum is a career OPS+ of 28. Not even relatives pay to see him hit which was one of Max's points. In fact which point was it that Bum refuted of Max's?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bumgama01.shtml

The point is he is a better hitter than other pitchers. That has value in real baseball, not the boring AL version.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Currently this season the top 4 scoring teams are in the AL East. Since the DH is used around the AL, it's interesting that the rest of the way, it's split 50/50 NL and AL. Something is off about the AL East and it isn't the use of a DH. Other than the Yankees coming in at 9th curently, the pitching staffs of the Red Sox 18, Orioles 24 and Blue Jays 28 are below average to bottom of the barrel in team WHIP.

 

[brett05]

None of that regards the DH. It regards when to pinch hit. It mentions nothing of a double switch, etc.

it goes to refute the quotes you gave.

 

[brett05]

My point is that the largest reason people are suggesting a DH as a positive is because pitchers by very nature aren't very good hitters. I frankly see that as irrelevant because a lot of SS/2B(think darwin barney) aren't very good hitters but they still play even in the AL with the DH.

Would you DH for the worst hitter or the second worst hitter?

Also, I'm not convinced by the argument that more runs is better baseball. Some might view low scoring games as boring but I argue that low scoring games create tension and tension is inherently exciting because one play can change a game.

I agree.

Additionally, I feel like the DH makes the game too easy. By that I mean that part of the game is not only hitting but defense. Having a DH allows a player like Vogelbach who's probably going to be horrendous as defender to hit at no cost. I don't think that makes for a better game. If hitting is all people care about then why not make games batting practice? Obviously that's being sensationalist but I think you can see the point I'm getting at.

While you admit it is sensationalist, I think it's a long way from that meaning there is no reason to mention it.

Overall, I feel like the DH devalues a lot of aspects of the game. There's rarely a time to use your bench in the AL because most of the time your top 9 hitters play. Sure it's a more compelling game offensively but that comes at a lot of costs to decision making.

Not a lot of decision making when you got an auto out in the lineup and potentially one or two more guys you can pitch around because of that auto out.

 

[brett05]

The point is he is a better hitter than other pitchers. That has value in real baseball, not the boring AL version.

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Angels jizz American freedom every time an NL manager successfully pulls off the double switch.

 

[Parade_Rain]

it goes to refute the quotes you gave.

Since it doesn't involve the DH, you created a strawman.

 

[brett05]

Since it doesn't involve the DH, you created a strawman.

again, it refutes your quotes given.

 

[Parade_Rain]

again, it refutes your quotes given.

Larussa is specifically discussing when to switch a pitcher. That isn't the entirety of strategy. So, no. It doesn't refute what Peavy stated.

 

[brett05]

Larussa is specifically discussing when to switch a pitcher. That isn't the entirety of strategy. So, no. It doesn't refute what Peavy stated.

I never said it refuted all of it. Nice try