Alfonso Soriano returns to New York Yankees

[SilenceS]

For me, Sori could have a great year ... and then go 0 for 20 in the playoffs. The few times I've seen him have a chance, he was no where to be found. This move, imo, could help the Cubs be better, faster.

Cory Black will not do that. Now, if it gets younger kids playing time then im fine with the trade if not then dumb move. I think they plan on going young the rest of the way so good move.

 

[KBIB]

I think this trade puts Bryant on the fast track to the majors now that there is an open spot in a black hole of an OF now that Sori is gone.


You can say what you want about Sori, but the guy did bring a list of expecations with him every year. Was he the guy who was one of the best players in baseball? Surely not, and never was that guy while in a Cubs uniform, but he was a streaky player who can carry a team on his back when he was hot. What I don't like, and this is just my opinion, is that it seems Theo is killing this team of actual talent for the sake of losing and getting high draft picks just for the sake of getting high draft picks. The every day line up is rather horrid...but they keep on winning as of late. That's a testament to Dale's managerial skills. He is indeed using the cards he was dealt and is finding a way to win with a FO that is self imploding his team out there.

Now is the time to see what the BJax's and Vitters have, if they have anything.



CHAMPS!!!

 

[CSF77]

I think this trade puts Bryant on the fast track to the majors now that there is an open spot in a black hole of an OF now that Sori is gone.


You can say what you want about Sori, but the guy did bring a list of expecations with him every year. Was he the guy who was one of the best players in baseball? Surely not, and never was that guy while in a Cubs uniform, but he was a streaky player who can carry a team on his back when he was hot. What I don't like, and this is just my opinion, is that it seems Theo is killing this team of actual talent for the sake of losing and getting high draft picks just for the sake of getting high draft picks. The every day line up is rather horrid...but they keep on winning as of late. That's a testament to Dale's managerial skills. He is indeed using the cards he was dealt and is finding a way to win with a FO that is self imploding his team out there.

Now is the time to see what the BJax's and Vitters have, if they have anything.



CHAMPS!!!

Mixed opinion here. First paragraph: to early to say that. 2nd: agree. 3rd: those 2 have not mastered AAA pitching or have stayed healthy. Neither should be concidered prospects any more and have a mountain to climb to be concidered at this point.

 

[KBIB]

First off, let me say I basically agree with everything you say. Let me expand on what I was trying to put out there.

First paragraph: to early to say that.

While I agree with you, I'm getting at if he can show a quick adjustment to playing minor ball, I just don't see Theoyer just keeping him down there too long. If Olt is going to be the 3rd baseman of the future, and as of now, I don't see why he wouldn't be, they need to give this kid a decent start in the minors to learn how to play a corner and let him develop. He can rake, but his most important development will indeed be his fielding. While I understand he has played the OF before, I would like to see him but both offense and defense together into a stable package before he gets the call. The spot is there for him to have now, hopefully he earns it.

3rd: those 2 have not mastered AAA pitching or have stayed healthy. Neither should be concidered prospects any more and have a mountain to climb to be concidered at this point.

And I'm with you on this too, but if losing right now is what they want, it sure wouldn't hurt to see what these two guys have. Both are at that bust stage, sadly, its either put up or find another team.



CHAMPS!!!

 

[CSF77]

Bryant is most likely going to take 1-3 years. I believe we are getting caught up into what has been said of past top picks promoting fast. Seeing how they went and got Olt it doesn't jive with that logic and it points to a development process and performance based promotions vs what a bunch of people say. Look at Soler. Most though he would be rushed.... Even with the injury in concidetation AA is where he deserved. Baez 25 HR so far. Don't see him pushed to the team yet. So there is going to be a process regardless of what we want to see. On Jackson he sucked last year at AAA and got a unearned promotion. Then continued to suck. This year he again sucked. He lacks the power to justify that much swing and miss. Vitters at best a RH bat to fill a corner spot. I wouldn't take AB's from Lake to see what he has. Comes down to is he did not earn a spot last year and this year he got the injure bug. He has a ton to prove and sitting on the DL while better talent is closing in makes his tenure suspect.

 

[FirstTimer]

Fun fact: Andre Dawson and Alfonso Soriano career with the Cubs are the same length. There is only about a 170 at bat difference. Guess who is fWAR was better? Sorianos. Guess what pushed it over Dawson? Defense. Haha that should stick in the craw of some of the WAR lovers.

I like how you dismissed bWAR

Soriano as a Cub: 7.6

Dawson as a Cub: 18.7


It doesn't really stick in anyone's craw. I don't recall people touting Dawson as a terrific defender in Chicago when his knees were gone. Also, nearly 1/3 of Sorino's total fWAR came in his first season. Dawson's production was much more steady. But whatever. Way to ignore statistical outliers.

I guess we also get to ignore wOBA and wRC whatever.

SORIANO FOR HOF

 

[FirstTimer]

I don't know what the point of this whole discussion...are we supposed to think that Soriano was more successful as a Cub than Dawson?

Dawson came to Chicago at age 32, after his knees were shot, and at a very low salary. Dawson already had logged a ton of games on Olympic Stadium's turf by the time he turned 25...which was Soriano's rookie year. Soriano still had a couple prime years left when he came to the Cubs, and he had a huge salary. Maybe Soriano was unfairly judged, but I don't think anyone would say Soriano was the better Cub when compared to Dawson.

Soriano as a Cub
2 ASG's
Finished 20th in MVP voting once
2 post season flameouts


Dawson as a Cub:
1 MVP, 3 other Top 20 finishes
5 ASG
2 Gold Gloves
1 Silver Slugger
1 post season flameout

 

[JosMin]

Ain't nobody fuckin' wit' dis.

 

[CSF77]

[video]http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?c_id=nyy&gid=2013_07_28_tbamlb_nyamlb_1&lang=en&content_id=29226151&mode=video[/video]

 

[CSF77]

Soriano as a Cub
2 ASG's
Finished 20th in MVP voting once
2 post season flameouts


Dawson as a Cub:
1 MVP, 3 other Top 20 finishes
5 ASG
2 Gold Gloves
1 Silver Slugger
1 post season flameout

Dumb

Neither or Ernie Banks led the Cubs to a WS much less a victory.

Just about stupid to put the weigh of winning based of contract value when it is a team sport.

 

[FirstTimer]

Dumb

.

Sums up your response nicely.

 

[SilenceS]

I like how you dismissed bWAR

Soriano as a Cub: 7.6

Dawson as a Cub: 18.7


It doesn't really stick in anyone's craw. I don't recall people touting Dawson as a terrific defender in Chicago when his knees were gone. Also, nearly 1/3 of Sorino's total fWAR came in his first season. Dawson's production was much more steady. But whatever. Way to ignore statistical outliers.

I guess we also get to ignore wOBA and wRC whatever.

SORIANO FOR HOF

I didn't leave out anything. Its comical because it shows Cubs fans thinking on Soriano. You try to take any number somebody else gives you and dismiss it, but when I was an fWAR you don't like it. But, your bWAR is better now.

Soriano career stats: .272 AVG., .321 OBP, .503 SLG, .825 OPS
wOBA of .350, and a wRC+ of 111. 37.9 WAR

Dawson career stats: .279, .323 OBP, .482 SLG, .806 OPS
wOBA of .350, and a wRC+ of 117, 59.5 WAR

Soriano- 390 Homers, 280 SB
Dawson-438 Homers, 314 SB

Dawson- 20 years in the league
Soriano- 14 years in the league

Tell me again how the numbers are so different.

 

[SilenceS]

Soriano has 1 more year left before he retires so to think having him in LF for 2014 would make that much of a difference of them winning more games or not is ridiculous.

dont know why some are moaning about the guy being dealt when uo until about 3 weeks ago he was pretty much useless and looked ready to retire then.

soriano was one of my favorite all time cub, but im ok with him being dealt away to finish out his career where he started and get a chance at making the post season.

In return, the cubs opened up an OF spot to more then likely get a look a look at some of their own OF prospects and have a younger replacement in 2014.
it not a whole lot as far as baseball goes, but they saved 7 mil off his contract.
they get a 22 YO pitcher in his 2nd yr of pro ball that has some good stuff.

I say Soriano plays at least another 3 or 4 years.

 

[SilenceS]

Thought you were trying to use WAR stats to show demonstrate some type of irreplaceable level of production from Soriano...my bad. I guess you were just trying to troll. Got it.

Lol I was spot on when I said you need to go back to school.

 

[FirstTimer]

I didn't leave out anything.

Except for bWAR and OPS+.

I've used bWAR in every thread unless when asked for fWAR.

Soriano career stats: .272 AVG., .321 OBP, .503 SLG, .825 OPS
wOBA of .350, and a wRC+ of 111. 37.9 WAR

Dawson career stats: .279, .323 OBP, .482 SLG, .806 OPS
wOBA of .350, and a wRC+ of 117, 59.5 WAR

Look up OPS+.


Dawson's career numbers>Soriano's when talking about eras


Pretty simple.

Catch up.

 

[FirstTimer]

Soriano's career numbers lead to:

7 ASG
4 Silver Sluggers
5 times getting votes for MVP


Dawson's lead to:
Rookie of the Year
MVP
8 ASG's
8 Gold Gloves
4 Silver Sluggers
8 other times got votes for MVP


Yeah, no difference there.

 

[SilenceS]

Except for bWAR and OPS+.

I've used bWAR in every thread unless when asked for fWAR.



Look up OPS+.


Dawson's career numbers>Soriano's when talking about eras


Pretty simple.

Catch up.

Lol its like talking baseball with an infant.

 

[FirstTimer]

Lol its like talking baseball with an infant.

Great on topic response. The elite level offensive OF'er who was also an elite defensive OF for most of his career is totally comparable to the above average offensive OF'ers who has been one of the worst defensive players in baseball most of his career.

You're trying to compare Carlos Boozer to Shawn Kemp.

 

[SilenceS]

Here is from our very own world series dreaming people.

http://worldseriesdreaming.com/2012/08/10/soriano-and-the-hawk/

 

[SilenceS]

I don't know if it was planned all along by SilenceS, or if he is like a squirrel backed into a corner, but to say that Alfonso Soriano was/is better than Andre Dawson is a tad bit ridiculous. One is a HOFer. The other isn't. You could probably stop there.

Never said Soriano was the better player. Not once. Check all most post. What I am pointing out how it is comical to dismiss Soriano as being close to Dawson in terms of production that you and your buddy seem to think. The article is spot on with my thinking.