Alfonso Soriano's Endless Contract

[Captain Obvious]

errors certainly dont help a player's case for being a great defender...

07 may be the year in question...but it doesnt validate soriano's defense as being anywhere near good or to be used as an advantage...

soriano's defensive WAR has only been above one twice(once with the nationals and once with the cubs in 07) besides that it has been around 0 or much lower than that..

furthermore, his defensive chances(putouts+assists+errors) has been in the low 200s and his ch was relatively good in 07 as a LF with 269 in around 125 games...but since then its been pretty bad...

Carl Crawford is one of the best defenders in the league and he's a LF(his fielding percentage and ch are great)

Matt Holliday is a pretty good defender at LF(was better than soriano defensively at least in 07...higher fielding % and a ch above 300)

and i understand that LF is not an easy defensive position...but i dont think that is the reason for soriano's mainly subpar defense as a cub

his defensive WAR was absurdly bad when he was a second baseman when he was with the yankees and rangers...

please...lets not act this like guy has ever been anywhere near a gold glove guy

I'm not saying that he is a gold glover. I don't know who would say that. Yes, Crawford is a good defender and Holliday is decent. However, that's two out of 30. It doesn't take someone that good to be a top defender. Although now Cargo is a LFer, so that changes things slightly.

I'm just not a huge fan of BR's WAR. I'm a fangraphs guy. I'm not going to say that what you are saying is wrong because I simply am not familiar with BR's WAR and it's not fair to compare the two.

All I am saying is that his defense in 07 was good for a LFer. That is what gave him a lot of his value & made him a top player in the league.

He plays LF cause hes a bad fielder, not the other way around.

And just about every other team has a bad fielder playing LF. Compared to his peers, he really isn't all that terrible.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Soriano was horrible on defense then too!! He was so bad at second base that they put him in the outfield when he was with the Nationals! :shot:

So you're saying that because he is a terrible second baseman, that means he must suck in the outfield? Great logic.

 

[Rick]

All I am saying is that his defense in 07 was good for a LFer. That is what gave him a lot of his value & made him a top player in the league.

What made Soriano a top free agent after the 2006 season was the fact that he hit 46 homeruns and stole 41 bases.

You're delusional I swear

 

[Rick]

So you're saying that because he is a terrible second baseman, that means he must suck in the outfield? Great logic.

No I didn't say that, you're putting words into my mouth yet again....I'm not making an assumption that he sucks in the outfield, I'm saying that he does.

What team are you watching?


Don't talk to me about logic. After reading all of your posts, its clear to me that it's hell inside your head.

 

[Captain Obvious]

What made Soriano a top free agent after the 2006 season was the fact that he hit 46 homeruns and stole 41 bases.

You're delusional I swear

Yes, that is what landed him his big contract. However that alone does not make him a top tier player. Which is why I said

All I am saying is that his defense in 07 was good for a LFer. That is what gave him a lot of his value & made him a top player in the league.

 

[bleacherbum54]

Yes, that is what landed him his big contract. However that alone does not make him a top tier player. Which is why I said

yes it does name one guy who hit 40 and 40 and not considered a top tiered player. The guy was paid to do those things. Fonso has sucked at defense his whole career.

 

[Rick]

Yes, that is what landed him his big contract. However that alone does not make him a top tier player. Which is why I said

They didn't sign him for his defense!

 

[Captain Obvious]

No I didn't say that, you're putting words into my mouth yet again....I'm not making an assumption that he sucks in the outfield, I'm saying that he does.

What team are you watching?


Don't talk to me about logic. After reading all of your posts, its clear to me that it's hell inside your head.

How can you use just your eyes to say that he is bad in the OF? I mean really, you can't possibly tell me that your eyes aren't biased.

Yes, hell is inside my head because I use something non-biased to say that Soriano is a good LFer. God damn those baseball stats!

 

[Captain Obvious]

yes it does name one guy who hit 40 and 40 and not considered a top tiered player. The guy was paid to do those things. Fonso has sucked at defense his whole career.

Soriano wasn't that great in 06. He was over a win and a half better in 07.

They didn't sign him for his defense!

Who said that they did?

 

[Rick]

How can you use just your eyes to say that he is bad in the OF? I mean really, you can't possibly tell me that your eyes aren't biased.

Yes, hell is inside my head because I use something non-biased to say that Soriano is a good LFer. God damn those baseball stats!

What the hell else am I supposed to use to watch the games if not with my eyes? My shaft? I don't need to look at stats to know he's horrible. Ask anyone in their right mind and they'll agree with me.


Everything you say is biased, what are you talking about? lol :rofl:

 

[Captain Obvious]

What the hell else am I supposed to use to watch the games if not with my eyes? My shaft? I don't need to look at stats to know he's horrible. Ask anyone in their right mind and they'll agree with me.


Everything you say is biased, what are you talking about? lol :rofl:

Everyone says DJ is a great defender. Doesn't make it true.

Your eyes are telling you what they should be telling you. He is a very ugly defender and he takes some really crappy routes. I think we can both agree on that. However, that does not make him a bad defender. He is quick, which allows him to get to a lot of balls. It makes up for his bad routes. Just because he looks bad doesn't mean he is bad.

 

[poodski]

I think this thread just set baseball back 20 years.

Joe Morgan would be so proud of all of you.

 

[poodski]

His dWAR prior to 2006 was really bad because he was a 2B, which is a harder position to play than LF. He's definitely not the best defender by any stretch of the imagination, but WAR doesn't care about style, it cares more about results. Soriano was decent as an OF pretty much because of his speed and his arm. Once he lost his speed, he lost the only thing that kept him from being truly atrocious.

Well said. At least someone gets it. His defensive numbers have gone down a bit as well because NO ONE runs on him.

He plays LF cause hes a bad fielder, not the other way around.

That's 100% correct. He's a terrible defensive player, just an average to above average defensive left fielder.

 

[poodski]

What the hell else am I supposed to use to watch the games if not with my eyes? My shaft? I don't need to look at stats to know he's horrible. Ask anyone in their right mind and they'll agree with me.


Everything you say is biased, what are you talking about? lol :rofl:

I didnt know Harold Reynolds posted here.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

I think this thread just set baseball back 20 years.

Joe Morgan would be so proud of all of you.

^^^

should be a smiley

 

[poodski]

^^^

should be a smiley

It should be. Get on it you are a mod!

 

[beardown28]

Great Rebuttal.

I love how you continue to say this yet your argument has been shit this entire thread.

Sori isn't a good outfielder but is a good LF'er... REALLY? LF must be somewhere between the infield and outfield... and the only way Sori is good there is if he's the ONLY person playing that position.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm just not a huge fan of BR's WAR. I'm a fangraphs guy.

Fangraphs WAR says:

Posey>>>Soto in 2010. 3.8 to 3.0.




You like fangraphs because it helps you in Soriano's case. Not that it really matters because outside of fangraphs WAR stat there is NOTHING indicating that Soriano was a top 10 player in 2007.

Don't you think that's a little odd?

Any rational person would think the following:

"Hmm. In 2007 Soriano didn't rank in the top 10 in the major in any significant statistic. In most cases he wasn't even in the Top 20 and in some cases he wasn't ranked in the Top 50. Behind such amazing players as Renteria, Hawpe, Dmitiri Young, and Jack Cust. Yet fangraphs WAR metric has him as the 9th "best" in the entire MLB. Something doesn't seem right here and something is drastically off in that WAR assesment."

I'm also going to point out the sheer idiocy of the following statement:

I'm just not a huge fan of BR's WAR I'm not going to say that what you are saying is wrong because I simply am not familiar with BR's WAR and it's not fair to compare the two.

1. You're not a huge fan of BR's WAR? Why not?..oh wait.

....

2. You say you aren't familiar with BR's WAR. Ok then how can you not be a "fan" of it if you aren't familiar with it? One would think that in order to not be a fan of something you'd have to be familiar with it to begin with because through that familiarty with it you'd be able to point to specific aspects of it that would lead you to not being a "fan" of it.

3. How can you say it's not fair to compare the two if you aren't familiar with one of them to begin with? What's the basis for this decree? By your own admission you aren't familiar with BR's WAR so how can you possibly make the assessment and judgement that it's unfair to compare the two?

I think this thread just set baseball back 20 years.

.

We beg of you to please go back to PSD so we can keep stupid shit like this localized to there. Much like "The Hive" in Resident Evil games.

 

[beardown28]

So you're saying that because he is a terrible second baseman, that means he must suck in the outfield? Great logic.

Go back and read everything you said in this thread, then explain all of your "logic." You really seem to be lacking it.

 

[poodski]

I love how you continue to say this yet your argument has been shit this entire thread.

Sori isn't a good outfielder but is a good LF'er... REALLY? LF must be somewhere between the infield and outfield... and the only way Sori is good there is if he's the ONLY person playing that position.

So people like Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay, Ryan Braun, Josh Willingham, and Carlos Lee are better than Soriano?