Alfonso Soriano's Endless Contract

[Jntg4]

What the hell else am I supposed to use to watch the games if not with my eyes? My shaft? I don't need to look at stats to know he's horrible. Ask anyone in their right mind and they'll agree with me.


Everything you say is biased, what are you talking about? lol :rofl:

CO doesn't watch games... he's one of those people that claims to be a Cubs fan and tries to defend them in any ridiculous way possible... while hating on certain players as a ridiculous version of a scapegoat. And he is a .

 

[poodski]

It's day like this I wish firejoemorgan was still around.

 

[poodski]

CO doesn't watch games... he's one of those people that claims to be a Cubs fan and tries to defend them in any ridiculous way possible... while hating on certain players as a ridiculous version of a scapegoat. And he is a .

Dude you stand up for Darwin Barney. Anyone that stands up for him really has no place to call anyone else in the world a homer.... ever.

**** all that statistical noise guys.... he's got grit!!

 

[Jntg4]

Dude you stand up for Darwin Barney. Anyone that stands up for him really has no place to call anyone else in the world a homer.... ever.

**** all that statistical noise guys.... he's got grit!!

All I'm saying is that he is not some AA or AAA player that CO makes him out to be. And I'm far from a homer... I said we suck a long time ago... and it pissed off CO, so...

 

[Jntg4]

Dude you stand up for Darwin Barney. Anyone that stands up for him really has no place to call anyone else in the world a homer.... ever.

**** all that statistical noise guys.... he's got grit!!

... and you and CO were the only ones that wanted to demote him now instead of giving him a chance when he's been decent this season. Sure, he doesn't walk, but NOBODY on this team except for Fukudome and Pena does.

 

[poodski]

All I'm saying is that he is not some AA or AAA player that CO makes him out to be. And I'm far from a homer... I said we suck a long time ago... and it pissed off CO, so...

so you said we suck: not a homer

he said Barney sucks: homer

?

Am I following this correctly?

I am just trying to take in all the knew knowledge being dropped here.

 

[poodski]

... and you and CO were the only ones that wanted to demote him now instead of giving him a chance when he's been decent this season. Sure, he doesn't walk, but NOBODY on this team except for Fukudome and Pena does.

Well they all walk better than Barney do.

Barney is just Theriot with no walks, and possibly if you can believe it less power.

"My eyes tell me he sucks though. I don't need no stinking stats to see that." - Joe Morgan.

 

[Jntg4]

so you said we suck: not a homer

he said Barney sucks: homer

?

Am I following this correctly?

I am just trying to take in all the knew knowledge being dropped here.

He thinks Barney and Cashner suck... but that's because he thinks DeWitt and Silva are actually good. He's the biggest homer here, everyone (except you I guess) knows that.

But why are we arguing this again? Let's get back on to the ridiculous subject of Soriano's stellar defense.

 

[Jntg4]

Well they all walk better than Barney do.

Barney is just Theriot with no walks, and possibly if you can believe it less power.

"My eyes tell me he sucks though. I don't need no stinking stats to see that." - Joe Morgan.

Young players tend to not take many walks... plate discipline is learned, not inherited.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

Young players tend to not take many walks... plate discipline is learned, not inherited.

Holy crap. You did it. It took like 11,000 posts but you finally did it. You said something that I couldn't agree with more.

:clap:

So. Proud. Of. You.

:crying:

But seriously though, bolded part is spot on.

 

[Rice Cube]

Young players tend to not take many walks... plate discipline is learned, not inherited.

There's a growing swath of evidence that plate discipline seems to be something that you either have, or you don't. I'll have to hunt down the article later. But if you look at the rate stats, outside of Soto, Fukudome and Pena, nobody on the Cubs walks more than 10% of their PAs. I think 8-10% is MLB average, so while the Cubs have a decent batting average, their team OBP is predicated on batting average which as you know is really really streaky.

That's why I'm excited about guys like Brett Jackson who are bucking the trend of Cubs prospects and gets on base at a high clip, despite his strikeout problems and low-ish batting average. And that's why former players like Fuld and Theriot often criticize the Cubs for preaching aggressive hitting and not emphasizing pitch selection when in the box. And while guys like Barney and Castro seem like they have good eyes and good plate discipline, their swinging at obvious ball fours instead of taking the walk is annoying, especially when they strike out or hit into an out. But that's pretty standard, I guess, everyone gets annoyed when the Cubs make outs

 

[Jntg4]

Holy crap. You did it. It took like 11,000 posts but you finally did it. You said something that I couldn't agree with more.

:clap:

So. Proud. Of. You.

:crying:

But seriously though, bolded part is spot on.

Awesome, I made EYT cry twice in 2 days!

 

[poodski]

He thinks Barney and Cashner suck... but that's because he thinks DeWitt and Silva are actually good. He's the biggest homer here, everyone (except you I guess) knows that.

But why are we arguing this again? Let's get back on to the ridiculous subject of Soriano's stellar defense.

CO never said Soriano has stellar defense.

He did back in 2006-2007 but that was because A) he still had speed and B) people were willing to test his arm.

Now he is just merely average. Because A) his legs are shot and B) no one tests his arm anymore.

Young players tend to not take many walks... plate discipline is learned, not inherited.

Just for reference on this so far this year isolated discipline goes as following for the following age groups:

Under 25: .067
26-30: .069
31-35: .069
36+: .064

So I do not believe that is an accurate statement, as Rice just mentioned.

There is no reason to believe Barney will ever learn to walk.

 

[Jntg4]

CO never said Soriano has stellar defense.

He did back in 2006-2007 but that was because A) he still had speed and B) people were willing to test his arm.

Now he is just merely average. Because A) his legs are shot and B) no one tests his arm anymore.

He did not have stellar defense even then... as Rick said, he is a LFer because he has bad defense, not the other way around.

And isn't the topic we are arguing about whether or not Soriano's defense gave him his value? Not about whether or not his defense is average?

 

[Captain Obvious]

He thinks Barney and Cashner suck... but that's because he thinks DeWitt and Silva are actually good. He's the biggest homer here, everyone (except you I guess) knows that.

But why are we arguing this again? Let's get back on to the ridiculous subject of Soriano's stellar defense.

When did I say Cashner sucks? LOL

 

[nwfisch]

CO never said Soriano has stellar defense.

He said

Soriano was a pretty awesome defender in LFer in 2007. He was REALLY good.

It's open to interpretation.

He did back in 2006-2007 but that was because A) he still had speed and B) people were willing to test his arm.

Now he is just merely average. Because A) his legs are shot and B) no one tests his arm anymore.

The orginal claim by CO was that Soriano was a top 10 player in 2007.

Just for reference on this so far this year isolated discipline goes as following for the following age groups:

Under 25: .067
26-30: .069
31-35: .069
36+: .064

So I do not believe that is an accurate statement, as Rice just mentioned.

There is no reason to believe Barney will ever learn to walk.

He'll learn, he'll draw more walks as his career goes on, but not to the numbers purists want. If hits for a high average, I'm happy with him starting.

 

[Rick]

I didnt know Harold Reynolds posted here.

Are you and Captain Obvious the same person?

 

[Jntg4]

When did I say Cashner sucks? LOL

Silva sucks.

You said it was Special person to release Silva, because you weren't sure Cashner was even better than him, and if he was, it wasn't by much.

Therefore, Cashner must suck.

 

[poodski]

He did not have stellar defense even then... as Rick said, he is a LFer because he has bad defense, not the other way around.

And isn't the topic we are arguing about whether or not Soriano's defense gave him his value? Not about whether or not his defense is average?

I will still argue his defense was stellar in 2006-2007.

Who knows what people are arguing. People just take ONE thing out of a giant discussion and pick it out. Rather than talking about every little thing its just pick apart one thing.

Like if I were to say one time that I thought Soriano is an above average defender I get destroyed for it. Even though it should just be common sense I am only comparing him to other LF'ers.

Unfortunately on here nothing should ever be assumed.

The other thing is when you figure you are backed into a corner and have nothing to say just say well this guy should be banned for being so stupid.

It's always great that the people clambering for proof never actually have any of there own and never actually say anything concrete. Just wait for you to make one little mistake and jump all over it.

But alas that is the internet.

 

[Rice Cube]

He did not have stellar defense even then... as Rick said, he is a LFer because he has bad defense, not the other way around.

And isn't the topic we are arguing about whether or not Soriano's defense gave him his value? Not about whether or not his defense is average?

So I think the consensus is that Soriano is a bad defender, but the end result was that he saved more runs than he gave up because of his athleticism in 2006 and 2007. He was also halfway decent last season, but otherwise in his career has been a terrible defender. His value is in his bat, which has been declining as well. If you can get value out of his glove, it's gravy.

LF is the second-easiest position to play after 1B. You pretty much stick your worst defenders at LF or 1B. 1B is where players go to die before they get traded to another team to become a DH or a pinch-hitter. I know they originally tried Soriano as a CF but that idea was ill-conceived. I think Soriano has a reputation for being a hard worker even if his effort on the field doesn't show it, but he's simply not a good defender. But you can't discount the fact that even though it was ugly, he had good defensive ratings in those two years.