Andy Dalton is Cannon Fodder

[CHIBEAR]

There is absolutely no unknowns with my plan because you let the OL play first and make a decision on how to move Fields into the starting role based on what the OL actually does.. If the OL plays well after 4-6 games then you let him play. Simple as that.

Also there is more then just the OL, so far Nagy has been a complete fraud when it comes to an "offensive genius". I also would want to see how Nagy performs with Dalton. Dalton is a know commodity, he is a sold average QB, so what happens if Nagys O shits the bed again? So in that situation does Pace fire Nagy at the end of the year if he fails to produce at least an average offense? If thats the case then we dont want fields to play under Nagy at all.

The problem with starting Fields is if the O struggles again because Nagy is a fraud then who gets the blame? the HC or the rookie QB? I want the OL to prove themselves and I also want Nagy to prove he is not a fraud. Having Fields sit for half a year to find out will not hurt his development at all.. The vast majority of the top QBs did not start day one.. it will not hurt him at all..

LOL what ? Dalton sucks please tell me what Dalton brings that improves the Bears offensive weakness.

Fields will get no blames hes a rookie to even suggest hat somehow anyone will blame Fields for anything after the last 4 years of Pace and Nagy is hilarious.

If the OLine plays well ? what does that even mean ? you are talking about 2 completely different qbs for a team with a very specific set of weaknesses .

Dalton led offenses has only produced numbers good as our 2018 numbers ONE TIME in 9 years as a starter he is basically the epitome of what we have been complaining about in qb play and so nothing will change . His skills doesn't move the needle one bit . Think about saying Nagy has to produce a offense under Dalton after watching the Bengals struggles to do it for 9 years as somehow a measurement of whether you are an offensive genius or not. This is after watching the Cowboys go from averaging 32 ppg game last year with Dak starting to 22 ppg with Dalton in the worst division maybe ever.

 

[run and shoot]

LOL what ? Dalton sucks please tell me what Dalton brings that improves the Bears offensive weakness.

Fields will get no blames hes a rookie to even suggest hat somehow anyone will blame Fields for anything after the last 4 years of Pace and Nagy is hilarious.

If the OLine plays well ? what does that even mean ? you are talking about 2 completely different qbs for a team with a very specific set of weaknesses .

Dalton led offenses has only produced numbers good as our 2018 numbers ONE TIME in years as a starter he is basically the epitome of what we have been complaining about in qb play and so nothing will change . His skills doesn't move the needle one bit . Think about saying Nagy has to produce a offense under Dalton after watching the Bengals struggles to do it for years as somehow a measurement of whether you are an offensive genius or not. This is after watching the Cowboys go from averaging 32 ppg game last year with Dak starting to 22 ppg with Dalton in the worst division maybe eve.

This is after watching the Cowboys go from averaging 32 ppg game last year with Dak starting to 22 ppg with Dalton in the worst division maybe eve.

Leading Jerry Jones to tell Dak.....' ok, you broke ankle cripple, here's your new contract' ?

 

[Payton!34]

Sitting fields makes zero sense. He’s not going to learn very much sitting for a few games that we will likely lose with dalton starting bc he stinks. He’s no better than trubisky or foles at this point in his career.

he could do squat with a talented cowboys team. Nagys offense and probably any other coach’s offense would stink with those qb’s at the helm.

this is a good team as a whole if you put in a qb that can actually play and our line will be much better this year than last year!

plus, with dalton in there and the line play improving, we are going to watch the bears run most of the time. A completely different game plan that Nagy has to implement for the old cripple than with fields in the line up.

that’s just crazy and the rest of the team will be fuming on the inside bc they want to win and fields gives them the best chance at this bar none. The receivers most certainly don’t want dalton to play. Mooney was wide open on long td plays a lot last year and our qb’s couldn’t come close to making any of those throws.

this is just a tactic from a scared coach and GM trying to squeeze another year of their jobs by playing dalton.

let’s see what this kid can do, he’ll make mistakes but he’ll also make some incredible plays that the others could never make. Montgomery might not be able to run bc defenses will crowd the box bc dalton isn’t going to beat anyone throwing the ball.

you can learn some stuff from watching but most of the ones that watched for a while sat behind good wb’s so then you can learn much more than sitting behind dalton bc fields blood is going to boil watching that shit show.

I hope the bears lose every game that dalton plays to be honest. Then having fields come in while the bears will already be in a hole is just ignorant.

you play your best players and that’s it!

 

[dbldrew]

LOL what ? Dalton sucks please tell me what Dalton brings that improves the Bears offensive weakness.

Fields will get no blames hes a rookie to even suggest hat somehow anyone will blame Fields for anything after the last 4 years of Pace and Nagy is hilarious.

If the OLine plays well ? what does that even mean ? you are talking about 2 completely different qbs for a team with a very specific set of weaknesses .

Dalton led offenses has only produced numbers good as our 2018 numbers ONE TIME in 9 years as a starter he is basically the epitome of what we have been complaining about in qb play and so nothing will change . His skills doesn't move the needle one bit . Think about saying Nagy has to produce a offense under Dalton after watching the Bengals struggles to do it for 9 years as somehow a measurement of whether you are an offensive genius or not. This is after watching the Cowboys go from averaging 32 ppg game last year with Dak starting to 22 ppg with Dalton in the worst division maybe ever.

I'm not saying that Dalton is better then fields but Dalton is a known Journeyman QB that has been in the league for 10 years. He averages 62% comp, has a 1.74 TD/INT ratio, averages 237 yards per game, and has an 87.5 QB rating.. He is the definition of average. He has had a pretty consistent career he had only 1 good year where he put up a 106 QB rating, otherwise he hovers around mid to high 80s.. he also had just one bad year where he put up a a 78QB rating, and the funny thing with that is his "bad" year still out performed Nagys offense that same year.

Nagy has failed with every QB, failed with Mitch , failed with Foles, failed with Chase Danials. Nagys one "good" year ended up in a 21st ranked O where the league didnt know about all his BS trick plays.

Nagy was hired because he was an offensive minded HC and his job was to "fix" the offense and he has failed miserably, and yeah everyone can point to the QB and say he had terrible QBs so what do you expect? Well we now have a proven average QB, so it is not unreasonable to expect and average O with an average QB.

The more QBs that Nagy has failed under the better chance he gets fired.

Honestly everyone wanted Nagy fired because it was obvious that he was a fraud the last 2 year, what has drafting Fields done to change your guys mind on Nagy?

 

[macbear67]

I think people are missing the point. Binary thinking is all people want to do now-a-days. All Dalton or All Fields are not the only two choices. I do want Fields to start this year. Give the line a few weeks to gel and put him in. If the line does not gel, Dalton will probably get injured or just be so bad we put the kid in anyway. I imagine by midseason, Justin will be starting. By week 3 if we are really going to be good this season. By week 6 or so if he is going to have to run for his life every time he takes a snap. If this is the case we will be lucky to have 8 wins anyway.

 

[rawdawg]

I'm not saying that Dalton is better then fields but Dalton is a known Journeyman QB that has been in the league for 10 years. He averages 62% comp, has a 1.74 TD/INT ratio, averages 237 yards per game, and has an 87.5 QB rating.. He is the definition of average. He has had a pretty consistent career he had only 1 good year where he put up a 106 QB rating, otherwise he hovers around mid to high 80s.. he also had just one bad year where he put up a a 78QB rating, and the funny thing with that is his "bad" year still out performed Nagys offense that same year.

All those numbers put Dalton OUTSIDE of the top 25 QBs in the league. That's not average, that's bad. That's not a QB that can win football games.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

There is absolutely no unknowns with my plan because you let the OL play first and make a decision on how to move Fields into the starting role based on what the OL actually does.. If the OL plays well after 4-6 games then you let him play. Simple as that.

Also there is more then just the OL, so far Nagy has been a complete fraud when it comes to an "offensive genius". I also would want to see how Nagy performs with Dalton. Dalton is a know commodity, he is a sold average QB, so what happens if Nagys O shits the bed again? So in that situation does Pace fire Nagy at the end of the year if he fails to produce at least an average offense? If thats the case then we dont want fields to play under Nagy at all.

The problem with starting Fields is if the O struggles again because Nagy is a fraud then who gets the blame? the HC or the rookie QB? I want the OL to prove themselves and I also want Nagy to prove he is not a fraud. Having Fields sit for half a year to find out will not hurt his development at all.. The vast majority of the top QBs did not start day one.. it will not hurt him at all..

There are maybes and unknowns for your plan because you are speaking as if you are 100% certain the O Line needs 4-6 games to figure things out. That’s not the case though, we don’t know anything at this point at training camp might be enough time.

Sitting Fields a full year because of a poor OC does nothing to benefit Fields. That is a horrible plan. It doesn’t matter if a QB has a poor OC or not, that’s not going to determine their physical and mental attributes. If Fields come out and plays poorly, that’s on him and vise versa. and if he’s 100% ready, starting him week 1 will not hurt him at all either.

 

[dbldrew]

All those numbers put Dalton OUTSIDE of the top 25 QBs in the league. That's not average, that's bad. That's not a QB that can win football games.

Well he only played a handful of games last year but outside of last year he was rated, 18th, 25th, 17th, 12th and 21st..

so yeah average..

 

[dbldrew]

There are maybes and unknowns for your plan because you are speaking as if you are 100% certain the O Line needs 4-6 games to figure things out. That’s not the case though, we don’t know anything at this point at training camp might be enough time.

Sitting Fields a full year because of a poor OC does nothing to benefit Fields. That is a horrible plan. It doesn’t matter if a QB has a poor OC or not, that’s not going to determine their physical and mental attributes. If Fields come out and plays poorly, that’s on him and vise versa. and if he’s 100% ready, starting him week 1 will not hurt him at all either.

there is no guessing if you let the OL play a handful of games first. YOU THEN KNOW HOW THEY ARE PLAYING. How are you not understanding this?

 

[Warrior Spirit]

So, I really want to see what the kid (Fields) can do. I'm more excited about this than anything Bears related in years. But man the offensive line is such a question mark with two new tackles. I say let Dalton start and see if they can protect him. If they can protect him, put Fields in early in the season. If he is getting mauled every game, leave him in until he breaks. Nothing against the guy but better him than Fields. The less time Fields spends running for his life the better.

What a soppy pussy take that is. For one, Fields won't be bothered by a pass rush as much as the vet crap QB cause he's actually an athlete rather than a shit vet QB just looking to get a big paycheck from any dumbass team that will give it to him. For another, I saw how Fields plays hurt in the college championship game...and I like it.

 

[macbear67]

What a soppy pussy take that is. For one, Fields won't be bothered by a pass rush as much as the vet crap QB cause he's actually an athlete rather than a shit vet QB just looking to get a big paycheck from any dumbass team that will give it to him. For another, I saw how Fields plays hurt in the college championship game...and I like it.

So disregarding the stupid nasty start of the post. Dalton's on the team. He's getting his pay regardless of whether you like him or not. Why not use him for a few games while the line is getting some time playing together. And oh yeah, you want to see Fields play hurt. That's about as moronic a notion, I've ever heard.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

So disregarding the stupid nasty start of the post. Dalton's on the team. He's getting his pay regardless of whether you like him or not. Why not use him for a few games while the line is getting some time playing together. And oh yeah, you want to see Fields play hurt. That's about as moronic a notion, I've ever heard.

One thing you need know about Dalton. He sucks. Can already be viewed as money wasted and just another contributer to the cap hell the Bears created for themselves. To use him as a barometer of how long a real athlete could go without getting hurt is the moronic thing here. Most fans would just like to see their team field the best players and ...you know... try to actually win.

 

[rawdawg]

Well he only played a handful of games last year but outside of last year he was rated, 18th, 25th, 17th, 12th and 21st..

so yeah average..

Starting over 1/2 a season is a "handful of games now"?

And what are those rankings? You brought up Dalton's career Completion %, TD/INT ratio, yards per game and QB rating.

**NOTE** Used yards per attempt since that's readily available and YPG needs to be calculated for each QB, but pretty decent correlation. Also TD/INT ratio needs to be calculated for each QB. So, if his 14/8 (1.75) was 28th in 2020 (which I did figure out) you can guess where the others ranked.

2020
Comp %- 24th
TD/INT- 23rd
YPA- 28th
QB Rate- 25th

2019
Comp %- 27th
TD/INT- 16/14
YPA- 29th
QB Rate- 28th

2018
Comp %- 26th
TD/INT- 21/11
YPA- 25th
QB Rate- 25th

2017
Comp %- 25th
TD/INT- 25/12
YPA- 23rd
QB Rate- 19th

You have to go to 2017 and ONLY for QB rating (and maybe 2:1 TD:INT) to find anything close to "average" play from Andy Dalton.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

there is no guessing if you let the OL play a handful of games first. YOU THEN KNOW HOW THEY ARE PLAYING. How are you not understanding this?

And how are you not understanding that there is OTAs and Training camp before regular season games start. Maybe Nagy plays his starters more this year in Preseason

 

[run and shoot]

Starting over 1/2 a season is a "handful of games now"?

And what are those rankings? You brought up Dalton's career Completion %, TD/INT ratio, yards per game and QB rating.

**NOTE** Used yards per attempt since that's readily available and YPG needs to be calculated for each QB, but pretty decent correlation. Also TD/INT ratio needs to be calculated for each QB. So, if his 14/8 (1.75) was 28th in 2020 (which I did figure out) you can guess where the others ranked.

2020
Comp %- 24th
TD/INT- 23rd
YPA- 28th
QB Rate- 25th

2019
Comp %- 27th
TD/INT- 16/14
YPA- 29th
QB Rate- 28th

2018
Comp %- 26th
TD/INT- 21/11
YPA- 25th
QB Rate- 25th

2017
Comp %- 25th
TD/INT- 25/12
YPA- 23rd
QB Rate- 19th

You have to go to 2017 and ONLY for QB rating (and maybe 2:1 TD:INT) to find anything close to "average" play from Andy Dalton.

And lets not forget Dalton's stellar playoff performances and impressive W-L record. I think I heard Marvin Lewis talking about how without Dalton, he might've been fired. ? ?

 

[Black Rainbow]

I do think it's worth seeing if the rookie tackles can play for a few games before you start Fields. But Nagy will probably get him Burrow'd before the season is over.

 

[dbldrew]

Starting over 1/2 a season is a "handful of games now"?

And what are those rankings? You brought up Dalton's career Completion %, TD/INT ratio, yards per game and QB rating.

**NOTE** Used yards per attempt since that's readily available and YPG needs to be calculated for each QB, but pretty decent correlation. Also TD/INT ratio needs to be calculated for each QB. So, if his 14/8 (1.75) was 28th in 2020 (which I did figure out) you can guess where the others ranked.

2020
Comp %- 24th
TD/INT- 23rd
YPA- 28th
QB Rate- 25th

2019
Comp %- 27th
TD/INT- 16/14
YPA- 29th
QB Rate- 28th

2018
Comp %- 26th
TD/INT- 21/11
YPA- 25th
QB Rate- 25th

2017
Comp %- 25th
TD/INT- 25/12
YPA- 23rd
QB Rate- 19th

You have to go to 2017 and ONLY for QB rating (and maybe 2:1 TD:INT) to find anything close to "average" play from Andy Dalton.

those are the official NFL rankings, which puts him average..

So you want to say he is towards the bottom of the average category? sure thats fine, I just posted his individual average stats to show that they are just average as well. the problem with listing him based on individual stats like Comp % is most of the QBs are pretty close together so add in a few dropped balls and it can move him up the list pretty fast. Look at 2020, his 64.9% is a solid comp%.. it puts him at 24th like you said, but thats just 0.8% lower then Brady that year.. so all you are doing is splitting hairs with this argument.

It boils down to this. Do you think Nagy is a fraud yes or no?

I think he is, and the sooner we move on the better. I hope im wrong and its all been the QBs holding back Nagy, But we have all witnessed plenty of dumb ass plays by him.

so we have 2 scenarios here, lets operate under the idea that Nagy is in fact a fraud and needs to go.

Fields starts day one, and once again the O struggles. The problem with evaluating anything is historically rookie QBs for the most part struggle the first year. So now what? your O has struggled again, is it because of the rookie QB or the HC? So does Pace keep nagy another year figuring that the O troubles are a lot to do with having a rookie QB? Well then thats another year of a fraud as a HC.. thats about the worst case situation we can be in here..
OR
Dalton plays the first 5-7 games or so and the O struggles under Dalton so they go to fields and the O struggles under Fields as well.. Now what? well cant blame the O struggling again on a rookie QB when a 10 year vet played half the season and struggled as well.. So that would put the Nagy failure up to 5 QBs at that point and fired at the end of the season..

Now if Nagy is in fact a good HC/OC then under Dalton he should be able to operate at least an average offense, and same thing once Fields takes over as well.

Getting more data on your HC that should of been fired last year is not a bad thing.

 

[dbldrew]

And how are you not understanding that there is OTAs and Training camp before regular season games start. Maybe Nagy plays his starters more this year in Preseason

yeah because OTAs and Training camp is the same thing as a real game.. please tell me you are just trolling me at this point

 

[rawdawg]

those are the official NFL rankings, which puts him average..

So you want to say he is towards the bottom of the average category? sure thats fine, I just posted his individual average stats to show that they are just average as well. the problem with listing him based on individual stats like Comp % is most of the QBs are pretty close together so add in a few dropped balls and it can move him up the list pretty fast. Look at 2020, his 64.9% is a solid comp%.. it puts him at 24th like you said, but thats just 0.8% lower then Brady that year.. so all you are doing is splitting hairs with this argument.

It boils down to this. Do you think Nagy is a fraud yes or no?

I think he is, and the sooner we move on the better. I hope im wrong and its all been the QBs holding back Nagy, But we have all witnessed plenty of dumb ass plays by him.

so we have 2 scenarios here, lets operate under the idea that Nagy is in fact a fraud and needs to go.

Fields starts day one, and once again the O struggles. The problem with evaluating anything is historically rookie QBs for the most part struggle the first year. So now what? your O has struggled again, is it because of the rookie QB or the HC? So does Pace keep nagy another year figuring that the O troubles are a lot to do with having a rookie QB? Well then thats another year of a fraud as a HC.. thats about the worst case situation we can be in here..
OR
Dalton plays the first 5-7 games or so and the O struggles under Dalton so they go to fields and the O struggles under Fields as well.. Now what? well cant blame the O struggling again on a rookie QB when a 10 year vet played half the season and struggled as well.. So that would put the Nagy failure up to 5 QBs at that point and fired at the end of the season..

Now if Nagy is in fact a good HC/OC then under Dalton he should be able to operate at least an average offense, and same thing once Fields takes over as well.

Getting more data on your HC that should of been fired last year is not a bad thing.

I gave you actual rankings of actual stats. You can't even define whatever the hell "official rankings" are. Dalton is bad. I'm not arguing about Nagy. I'm not arguing about Fields or when he should play or what to do when he struggles. I am just arguing that Dalton is bad, and I gave you proof that he is, in fact, bad and not average or lower end of average. He's bad. He's not going to take what has been a bad offense (as a bad QB) and make them anything less than a bad offense.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

yeah because OTAs and Training camp is the same thing as a real game.. please tell me you are just trolling me at this point

Why do you think this offensive line needs so many games to gel and work together? The only real difference is Jenkins. And again, Jenkins won’t be any worse than Leno. So if Fields is 100% ready to go, why don’t you play him? Because the offensive line needs 4-6 games to figure it out? That’s a load of BS.