Andy Dalton is Cannon Fodder

[Bearly]

The coaches have a clue. We'll see what they do. We all suspect Jenkins to be better than Leno but it's not a given and even if better as expected, he could still have a snap or 2 during a game that gets your QB killed before he figures it all out. Handing off blocks, switches and pulls take some reps to become natural as well.

 

[dbldrew]

I gave you actual rankings of actual stats. You can't even define whatever the hell "official rankings" are. Dalton is bad. I'm not arguing about Nagy. I'm not arguing about Fields or when he should play or what to do when he struggles. I am just arguing that Dalton is bad, and I gave you proof that he is, in fact, bad and not average or lower end of average. He's bad. He's not going to take what has been a bad offense (as a bad QB) and make them anything less than a bad offense.

That's not how the NFL ranks QBs so take it up with the NFL if you don't like them ranking him as average..

 

[dbldrew]

Why do you think this offensive line needs so many games to gel and work together? The only real difference is Jenkins. And again, Jenkins won’t be any worse than Leno. So if Fields is 100% ready to go, why don’t you play him? Because the offensive line needs 4-6 games to figure it out? That’s a load of BS.

You have no idea if Jenkins move to the LT is going to work out or not. We can all hope it does, but we all hoped that Mitch would solve our QB problems and here we are..

Let them play a handful of games and that gives you the advantage of actually seeing if it works out, it also let's a 10 year vet play a bunch of games to see how nagys Special person system can fail with another QB and takes away the excuse that it's all the rookie QBs fault..

That's a win win scenario there for ya..

 

[rawdawg]

That's not how the NFL ranks QBs so take it up with the NFL if you don't like them ranking him as average..

LOL. The NFL isn't arguing with me that Dalton is average. Like I said, you can't even define how the ranking was done. I can explain completion percentage, QB rating, yards per attempt, etc. Who's ranking makes more sense to you? Ones that can be defined or some arbitrary numbers you found that the NFL put out somewhere you think you saw?

 

[dbldrew]

LOL. The NFL isn't arguing with me that Dalton is average. Like I said, you can't even define how the ranking was done. I can explain completion percentage, QB rating, yards per attempt, etc. Who's ranking makes more sense to you? Ones that can be defined or some arbitrary numbers you found that the NFL put out somewhere you think you saw?

It's by yards.. and this is a QB that led his team to the playoffs 5 years in a row.. made the pro bowl 3 times.. and every article you read on him they talk about how good of a QB he is.

I'm not arguing that he is a good QB like all the sports writers seem to say. I'm saying he is just average.

I don't give a shit about Dalton other then it will probably be another QB that fails in Nagys system. And that will be the best thing Dalton can do this year.. shed more light on Nagy as a play caller..

Why are you fighting so hard to give Nagy a free ride this year?

 

[truthbedamned]

Why are you fighting so hard to give Nagy a free ride this year?

I think Nagy would be a top 5 head coach if he would give up play calling.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

You have no idea if Jenkins move to the LT is going to work out or not. We can all hope it does, but we all hoped that Mitch would solve our QB problems and here we are..

Let them play a handful of games and that gives you the advantage of actually seeing if it works out, it also let's a 10 year vet play a bunch of games to see how nagys Special person system can fail with another QB and takes away the excuse that it's all the rookie QBs fault..

That's a win win scenario there for ya..

Do you honestly think Jenkins will be worse than Leno? Do you think Fields would really fail that badly with the current line situation? What is a handful of games really going to prove? If it works or doesn’t work, Fields is going to eventually play this year. When Fields is ready, he’s going to play no matter what the o line looks like. If Fields is the real deal than he is going to look like it no matter who is calling plays. Nagy hasn’t failed any QB. The Bears have just drafted or signed shit QBs to begin with.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

It's by yards.. and this is a QB that led his team to the playoffs 5 years in a row.. made the pro bowl 3 times.. and every article you read on him they talk about how good of a QB he is.

I'm not arguing that he is a good QB like all the sports writers seem to say. I'm saying he is just average.

I don't give a shit about Dalton other then it will probably be another QB that fails in Nagys system. And that will be the best thing Dalton can do this year.. shed more light on Nagy as a play caller..

Why are you fighting so hard to give Nagy a free ride this year?

Yes Nagy is a shit play caller and decision maker, but look at the QBs he dealt with. All of them were already below average QBs which he had no chance of fixing. There was no fixing Trubiksy either. The only QB we can judge Nagy on for potentially failing is Fields. He got the QB he wanted so let’s wait and see.

 

[Hbkrusso]

I think Nagy would be a top 5 head coach if he would give up play calling.

He could prolly be a championship coach easily in the peewee leagues

In the NFL im not sold

 

[Payton!34]

The only thing that scares me about Fields sucking is that Ryan pace drafted him!

Pace has made every horrible decision possible when it comes to the qb position.

Glennon 18million when everyone in the nfl knew he sucked ass! Chase Daniel- sucked for entire career, Foles-yuck and wasted a draft pick for a fucking backup!
No money should ever be wasted on a qb backup. There are only a handful of good qb’s, 99% of teams won’t win shit without their starter and that’s just the way it goes. Use your fiancé’s for something better and have two young qb’s that may just learn to become a good one and if they do, you trade them for assets or take over for your starter and then trade that guy if he’s decent but the main point is that they are cheap and you can spend foles and daltons millions on positions and players that will actually help this team now and moving forward or save it for when fields needs to get paid. Having their salaries makes the point that we now hopefully have a legit qb and he’s in his cheap years!

the Jaguars spent 5 million for two years for cj beathard.

who on this board wouldn’t rather have him instead of foles and or

We could have brought in some top tier talent like having been able to afford galloway what the giants are paying him or could have afforded some top tier oline talent so that we aren’t guessing how our bookends will be.

I believe in both Jenkins and borom. I hope the bears don’t start ifedi, he’s never been good as of now and seems like settling for mediocrity in my opinion. Another almost $5 million over payment.

Mitchell Schwartz is still available for not much more money and he has been arguably the best rt in football the past few years. I know he’s 32 but if he plays, he’ll be good for one or two more years at least.

Pace’s batting record at qb being ultimate 0% at this point doesn’t bode well for fields. I think he will be good but pace is the only thing that worries me.

 

[dbldrew]

Do you honestly think Jenkins will be worse than Leno? Do you think Fields would really fail that badly with the current line situation? What is a handful of games really going to prove? If it works or doesn’t work, Fields is going to eventually play this year. When Fields is ready, he’s going to play no matter what the o line looks like. If Fields is the real deal than he is going to look like it no matter who is calling plays. Nagy hasn’t failed any QB. The Bears have just drafted or signed shit QBs to begin with.

No I think that Jenkins will be much better but I also understand that it might take him some time to get there, If he played LT in college then I would feel a little better about it, but he didnt he played RT for most of his college career. There is going to be a learning curve for every player coming into the NFL, and more so when you are having them change positions.

Do you think that sitting Fields for half a year is going to hurt his development? yes or no

 

[rawdawg]

It's by yards.. and this is a QB that led his team to the playoffs 5 years in a row.. made the pro bowl 3 times.. and every article you read on him they talk about how good of a QB he is.

I'm not arguing that he is a good QB like all the sports writers seem to say. I'm saying he is just average.

I don't give a shit about Dalton other then it will probably be another QB that fails in Nagys system. And that will be the best thing Dalton can do this year.. shed more light on Nagy as a play caller..

Why are you fighting so hard to give Nagy a free ride this year?

I haven't said anything about Nagy. You keep trying to bring in that angle out of nowhere. I've simply said Dalton is not average. Sure, if you want to look at his overall career, Dalton has been an average QB in his 10 seasons. But the relevant ones, he's been bad. His 5 playoff season in a row and 3 probowls are SIX SEASONS REMOVED. Prime Andy Dalton isn't going to be the one showing up at camp. Do you really think we should take his full body of work when he's been injured, benched, cut, and signed to be a backup in the last 3-4 years?

 

[dbldrew]

Yes Nagy is a shit play caller and decision maker, but look at the QBs he dealt with. All of them were already below average QBs which he had no chance of fixing. There was no fixing Trubiksy either. The only QB we can judge Nagy on for potentially failing is Fields. He got the QB he wanted so let’s wait and see.

Change the second to last line from Fields to Dalton and you are correct.

Here is the problem with judging Nagys failed system, you can easily shift the blame to the QB
- Mitch was drafted by the Bears and failed in Nagys system.. well unfortunately most QBs that are drafted dont work out so put the blame on the QB
- Chase Daniel career backup that never was good enough to be a starter so definitely the QBs fault for this one
- Nick Foles is a toss up and really doesn't tell you much, had a great run for the eagles and won a MVP Superbowl but also had a lot of bad after that on other teams, so the failure in Nagys system could be because of his inconsistency and we just got "bad Nick" so its easy to make the argument that once again its the QBs fault.

So now we have 2 more QBs to add to the list with Fields and Dalton

-Fields tells you nothing if it doesnt work out his rookie year because most rookies struggle, and also he has never played in the NFL and most QBs dont work out, so you have 2 options to point the blame to the QB and off Nagy.

-Dalton is a 10 year vet that has been very consistent his entire career, this one can tell you something, if nagys system actually starts working under Dalton then this points to it actually being a QB problem, if it fails again.. now that really points to Nagy being a fraud.

We all think that Fields can be the franchise QB we all have been waiting for. Dont you think we should find out right away if the guy responsible for developing that franchise QB is a fraud and needs to be fired? Dalton will answer that question this year.. Fields will answer that question after the 2022 season...

 

[dbldrew]

I haven't said anything about Nagy. You keep trying to bring in that angle out of nowhere. I've simply said Dalton is not average. Sure, if you want to look at his overall career, Dalton has been an average QB in his 10 seasons. But the relevant ones, he's been bad. His 5 playoff season in a row and 3 probowls are SIX SEASONS REMOVED. Prime Andy Dalton isn't going to be the one showing up at camp. Do you really think we should take his full body of work when he's been injured, benched, cut, and signed to be a backup in the last 3-4 years?

my point of starting Dalton is for 2 reasons.. give the OL time to gel and shine a light on Nagy.. thats it.. I dont care about his playoff record my reason for starting him has nothing to do with thinking he is a better answer to making the playoffs.

I want Dalton to tell pace (based on how things work out on the field) if Nagy should be fired simple as that.

And yes we can look at his whole body of work because his last year stats where pretty much on par with his whole body of work. Last year he put up a 64.9comp% (second highest) a 87.3 QBr (career average is 87.5) and for games started he averaged 229 yards per game (career average is 234) his TD% was 4.2 (career 4.6) INT% was 2.4 (career was 2.6)

so yeah his last year stats where pretty much on par with what he has done his whole career

 

[rawdawg]

my point of starting Dalton is for 2 reasons.. give the OL time to gel and shine a light on Nagy.. thats it.. I dont care about his playoff record my reason for starting him has nothing to do with thinking he is a better answer to making the playoffs.

I want Dalton to tell pace (based on how things work out on the field) if Nagy should be fired simple as that.

And yes we can look at his whole body of work because his last year stats where pretty much on par with his whole body of work. Last year he put up a 64.9comp% (second highest) a 87.3 QBr (career average is 87.5) and for games started he averaged 229 yards per game (career average is 234) his TD% was 4.2 (career 4.6) INT% was 2.4 (career was 2.6)

so yeah his last year stats where pretty much on par with what he has done his whole career

And those averages suck. I already told you that, they all rank 25th or later. His comp %, QB rating, YPA, YPG were consistently better in his first 5 years than they were in 2020 (which was his best year in the last 5). So, if his numbers were BETTER in his first 5 years and his numbers were HIS PERSONAL AVERAGE in 2020....guess how they got to that average?.......by being WORSE than his first 5 years.

Also, wanting Dalton to start out of spite is dumb as hell. I literally do not give a single damn about Dalton. It's about Fields. Not saying Fields needs to be the Week 1 starter, but he's the focus. Not to determine if Nagy should be fired or not. Not if the OL is gelling or not.

What are you going to do if the OL never gels? The OL never gelled under Mitch. You gonna sit Fields for 4 years? What are you going to do in preseason? You don't want Fields behind an OL that hasn't gelled, well then you definitely can't justify him in preseason with 2nd string OL in front of him. What if Nagy does need to be fired because bad Dalton is bad? You determine in October, Nagy is bad and needs to be fired.....do you throw Fields in there with an interim or lame duck coach, just to have a new staff in 2022?

That's what I mean by "Fields is the focus". You can't have all these other factors to determine when he plays, because if those factors don't get to the point of acceptability, you never play him. If Fields is as good as we think, he should transcend some of this stuff. You telling me we should be scared to throw a 4.4 QB behind an OL that's not completely "gelling"? Isn't that the damn point of drafting a mobile QB? Like I said, the only factor for when Fields should play should be when Fields is ready to play. When he knows the offense, we he can execute the offense at an acceptable level. I don't care if it's Week 1, Week 15, next year under coach, but it sure as hell better not be because of Andy Dalton on a 1-year deal or trying to see if Nagy should be fired or not.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

No I think that Jenkins will be much better but I also understand that it might take him some time to get there, If he played LT in college then I would feel a little better about it, but he didnt he played RT for most of his college career. There is going to be a learning curve for every player coming into the NFL, and more so when you are having them change positions.

Do you think that sitting Fields for half a year is going to hurt his development? yes or no

Now are you are using “mights”. Jenkins is supposed to have some learning curves, he’s a rookie. I don’t think Jenkins going through learning curves is going to make our O line any worse than it was last year.

If Fields is 100% ready to go mentally, outplayed Dalton during TC, Preseason (?), etc then Yes it could hurt his development.

 

[dbldrew]

Now are you are using “mights”. Jenkins is supposed to have some learning curves, he’s a rookie. I don’t think Jenkins going through learning curves is going to make our O line any worse than it was last year.

If Fields is 100% ready to go mentally, outplayed Dalton during TC, Preseason (?), etc then Yes it could hurt his development.

YES he MIGHT be better which is why YOU LET HIM PLAY FIRST TO REMOVE THE "MIGHT" then you "KNOW"

 

[JesusHalasChrist]

YES he MIGHT be better which is why YOU LET HIM PLAY FIRST TO REMOVE THE "MIGHT" then you "KNOW"

What if he just sucks or is better but gets hurt? Do you sit Fields all year?

 

[dbldrew]

And those averages suck. I already told you that, they all rank 25th or later. His comp %, QB rating, YPA, YPG were consistently better in his first 5 years than they were in 2020 (which was his best year in the last 5). So, if his numbers were BETTER in his first 5 years and his numbers were HIS PERSONAL AVERAGE in 2020....guess how they got to that average?.......by being WORSE than his first 5 years.

Also, wanting Dalton to start out of spite is dumb as hell. I literally do not give a single damn about Dalton. It's about Fields. Not saying Fields needs to be the Week 1 starter, but he's the focus. Not to determine if Nagy should be fired or not. Not if the OL is gelling or not.

What are you going to do if the OL never gels? The OL never gelled under Mitch. You gonna sit Fields for 4 years? What are you going to do in preseason? You don't want Fields behind an OL that hasn't gelled, well then you definitely can't justify him in preseason with 2nd string OL in front of him. What if Nagy does need to be fired because bad Dalton is bad? You determine in October, Nagy is bad and needs to be fired.....do you throw Fields in there with an interim or lame duck coach, just to have a new staff in 2022?

That's what I mean by "Fields is the focus". You can't have all these other factors to determine when he plays, because if those factors don't get to the point of acceptability, you never play him. If Fields is as good as we think, he should transcend some of this stuff. You telling me we should be scared to throw a 4.4 QB behind an OL that's not completely "gelling"? Isn't that the damn point of drafting a mobile QB? Like I said, the only factor for when Fields should play should be when Fields is ready to play. When he knows the offense, we he can execute the offense at an acceptable level. I don't care if it's Week 1, Week 15, next year under coach, but it sure as hell better not be because of Andy Dalton on a 1-year deal or trying to see if Nagy should be fired or not.

Dalton has more wins the last 10 years then every Bear QB combined.. QBs that suck do not hold down a starting job for 10 plus years in the nfl..

its real simple do you think Nagy is a fraud of a HC/OC? yes or no?

 

[dbldrew]

What if he just sucks or is better but gets hurt? Do you sit Fields all year?

maybe depending on how bad the OL is after the backups come in.