are you sure you want to get rid of Joahkim?

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

houheffna wrote:

If for some weird reason Bosh agrees to come to the Bulls when we're giving up Noah, so we have to make that choice, I'd take option c:

Rose, ***, Deng, Lee, Noah.

That is decent, but it doesn't give you any scoring in the post. That is the only issue, Bosh is a go to guy down low.

If you give up Noah to get Bosh you're starting Bosh at center next to Gibson. The defense on such a team is a bigger problem than the post scoring of Lee and Noah.

Unfortunatly you are overlooking the fact that its much easier to find a defensive center then it is a 20/10 big man. Not to mention the fact that if that happened we would bring over asik for sure and/or look to sign a C in fa. A guy like Haywood or Dampier would help or we can trade for Pryzbilla. Noah is clearly more replacable than bosh. And in all honesty, I don't see Rose/Deng/Bosh/Noah being a contender and Jr paying out Rose and Bosh the max, Deng a huge deal and Noah big bucks with a shrinking cap.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

If you give up Noah to get Bosh you're starting Bosh at center next to Gibson. The defense on such a team is a bigger problem than the post scoring of Lee and Noah.

Disagree...now you would take Noah over a superior player...for defensive reasons? Bosh plays defense, and he is top 5 in the league arguably, definitely top 10.

If you think Duncan is better than Kobe, why wouldn't you take Bosh over Noah? Doesn't make sense to me...

Seriously this again. Is there any doubt that the Lakers championship teams have had a lot more to work with and still only won as many titles as the Spurs did in the last decade. Duncan has never played with a top 15 player in the league, Kobe won the majority of his titles as the #2 to the most dominant player in the game at the time.

 

[pinkizdead]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

houheffna wrote:

If for some weird reason Bosh agrees to come to the Bulls when we're giving up Noah, so we have to make that choice, I'd take option c:

Rose, ***, Deng, Lee, Noah.

That is decent, but it doesn't give you any scoring in the post. That is the only issue, Bosh is a go to guy down low.

If you give up Noah to get Bosh you're starting Bosh at center next to Gibson. The defense on such a team is a bigger problem than the post scoring of Lee and Noah.

Unfortunatly you are overlooking the fact that its much easier to find a defensive center then it is a 20/10 big man. Not to mention the fact that if that happened we would bring over asik for sure and/or look to sign a C in fa. A guy like Haywood or Dampier would help or we can trade for Pryzbilla. Noah is clearly more replacable than bosh. And in all honesty, I don't see Rose/Deng/Bosh/Noah being a contender and Jr paying out Rose and Bosh the max, Deng a huge deal and Noah big bucks with a shrinking cap.

swap out deng with granger and we'd have a contender. I think if we play well enough with bosh, and trade deng and two draft picks, as long as the pacers are continuing to loose they might reconsider.

or we might be able to bring in another team.

joahkim noah is playing like a beast. he needs more credit than he gets on the offensive end. games 2 and 4, jo was amazing! in the playoffs he's averaging 15 points on more htan just tip ins. Noah has offensive talent as a distributor, and he can beat his guy off the dribble. the guy has a decent handle. man i love this guy.

 

[houheffna]

Seriously this again. Is there any doubt that the Lakers championship teams have had a lot more to work with and still only won as many titles as the Spurs did in the last decade. Duncan has never played with a top 15 player in the league, Kobe won the majority of his titles as the #2 to the most dominant player in the game at the time.

No doubt...what does that have to do with how great an individual player is?

swap out deng with granger and we'd have a contender. I think if we play well enough with bosh, and trade deng and two draft picks, as long as the pacers are continuing to loose they might reconsider.

Negative, how can you watch what happened yesterday and think that all the Bulls need is Danny Granger? That is what has made these last two playoff trips so frustrating. People tend to over-exaggerate how close the team is to a championship.

 

[Kush77]

If given the option, I would trade Noah for bosh. You gotta get the premier inside scorer. This team needs it and has needed it for years now.

The only thing I worry about with Noah is - what if he ends up like Deng , Hinrich and Gordon. Is it possible that this is the best Noah gets? He could be a giuy that gets 12 and 12, and that's great. I just don't want the Bulls to completely fall in love with the guy to the point where they thing he's more valuable than Bosh.

I just don't want the Bulls to fall into that situation again. Because all the love for Noah is sounding the same as the love Deng got 3 years ago. And I was part of the Deng love-fest. And I love Noah too. But if the Raptors are willing to send Bosh here for Noah, you have to pull the trigger on that.

Now if we don't get Bosh, I would be happy with plan B of Boozer, Noah, Deng Rose.

I'm not big on the David Lee Rudy *** combo. Doesn't Rudy *** play the same position as Deng? How would that work? Expect *** to play the 2 and guard 2s? Has *** played the 2 a lot. Mayo is the starting 2 guard for them right?

 

[RPK]

Kush77 wrote:

If given the option, I would trade Noah for bosh. You gotta get the premier inside scorer. This team needs it and has needed it for years now.

The only thing I worry about with Noah is - what if he ends up like Deng , Hinrich and Gordon. Is it possible that this is the best Noah gets? He could be a giuy that gets 12 and 12, and that's great. I just don't want the Bulls to completely fall in love with the guy to the point where they thing he's more valuable than Bosh.

I just don't want the Bulls to fall into that situation again. Because all the love for Noah is sounding the same as the love Deng got 3 years ago. And I was part of the Deng love-fest. And I love Noah too. But if the Raptors are willing to send Bosh here for Noah, you have to pull the trigger on that.

Now if we don't get Bosh, I would be happy with plan B of Boozer, Noah, Deng Rose.

I'm not big on the David Lee Rudy *** combo. Doesn't Rudy *** play the same position as Deng? How would that work? Expect *** to play the 2 and guard 2s? Has *** played the 2 a lot. Mayo is the starting 2 guard for them right?

Good point Kush.

Noah has vastly improved on offense, but he's putting up decent offensive numbers while not being schemed against.

It's a big difference to someone who can score despite being double teamed. The level of difficulty is much higher.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

He dominated Shaq last night. That boy is growing up!

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

Negative, how can you watch what happened yesterday and think that all the Bulls need is Danny Granger? That is what has made these last two playoff trips so frustrating. People tend to over-exaggerate how close the team is to a championship.

granger is a decent player. rose is great. bosh is great.

rose /hinrich
shooter/hinrich
granger/JJ
Bosh/Taj/JJ
Noah/Bosh/ aaron grey

you're telling me we cant wing a championship with that. are you kidding me?

 

[hfritz32]

pinkizdead wrote:

houheffna wrote:

Negative, how can you watch what happened yesterday and think that all the Bulls need is Danny Granger? That is what has made these last two playoff trips so frustrating. People tend to over-exaggerate how close the team is to a championship.

granger is a decent player. rose is great. bosh is great.

rose /hinrich
shooter/hinrich
granger/JJ
Bosh/Taj/JJ
Noah/Bosh/ aaron grey

you're telling me we cant wing a championship with that. are you kidding me?

Aaron Gray isnt on the team anymore, yes that is a championship contender team but when you throw something in there like that to a bunch of die hard bulls fan you lose your credibility and look like you have no idea what your talking about. Might as well put Ron Artest at that shooting guard spot and make Antonio Davis the back up center

 

[pinkizdead]

yeah i know greys gone, but eh some1 has to get everyone else water.

 

[pinkizdead]

Kush77 wrote:

I'm not big on the David Lee Rudy *** combo. Doesn't Rudy *** play the same position as Deng? How would that work? Expect *** to play the 2 and guard 2s? Has *** played the 2 a lot. Mayo is the starting 2 guard for them right?

*** played the 2 before mayo came in
he'd be able to play 2, he's got the athleticism. i'm not if he'd excel at it.

noah might lead the league in rebounding and blocked shots next year.

i think he's gonna get an okafer like deal. i dont know if he'll ever live up to potential on the offensive end, but he's better than chandler/hawes/half the centers in the league.

but, you're right he's not bosh.

it's just i dont think toronto has the kind of sway that we believe they do. Bosh isn't going to houston or some team because toronto says so. I think Bosh is gonna decide on a few teams, then tell the teams to work it out.

if miami offers up beasely i think we can match it, but i dont think we can match david lee. Luckily i dont think anyone wants to go to new york.

 

[TheStig]

pinkizdead wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

houheffna wrote:

If for some weird reason Bosh agrees to come to the Bulls when we're giving up Noah, so we have to make that choice, I'd take option c:

Rose, ***, Deng, Lee, Noah.

That is decent, but it doesn't give you any scoring in the post. That is the only issue, Bosh is a go to guy down low.

If you give up Noah to get Bosh you're starting Bosh at center next to Gibson. The defense on such a team is a bigger problem than the post scoring of Lee and Noah.

Unfortunatly you are overlooking the fact that its much easier to find a defensive center then it is a 20/10 big man. Not to mention the fact that if that happened we would bring over asik for sure and/or look to sign a C in fa. A guy like Haywood or Dampier would help or we can trade for Pryzbilla. Noah is clearly more replacable than bosh. And in all honesty, I don't see Rose/Deng/Bosh/Noah being a contender and Jr paying out Rose and Bosh the max, Deng a huge deal and Noah big bucks with a shrinking cap.

swap out deng with granger and we'd have a contender. I think if we play well enough with bosh, and trade deng and two draft picks, as long as the pacers are continuing to loose they might reconsider.

or we might be able to bring in another team.

joahkim noah is playing like a beast. he needs more credit than he gets on the offensive end. games 2 and 4, jo was amazing! in the playoffs he's averaging 15 points on more htan just tip ins. Noah has offensive talent as a distributor, and he can beat his guy off the dribble. the guy has a decent handle. man i love this guy.

While we are at it, why don't we just swap out Deng for James and Noah for Howard? Granger is their franchise player, he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[TheStig]

No doubt...what does that have to do with how great an individual player is?

Sure it does, Duncan has played on cheap teams with his best players being late first round draft picks. Big difference, the Lakers always had more talent and resources to win. Duncan has done less with more is my point.

 

[TheStig]

Kush77 wrote:

I'm not big on the David Lee Rudy *** combo. Doesn't Rudy *** play the same position as Deng? How would that work? Expect *** to play the 2 and guard 2s? Has *** played the 2 a lot. Mayo is the starting 2 guard for them right?

Kush, *** is extremely athletic and can play the two. He has a lot of length and athleticism to keep up with most twos. The advantage of that team is that they can run, are really long and would easily be the best rebounding team in the league as everyone is above average at their position. But this is rather mute, Memphis has come out and said they will do whatever is needed to sign ***.

 

[Diddy1122]

Kush77 wrote:

If given the option, I would trade Noah for bosh. You gotta get the premier inside scorer. This team needs it and has needed it for years now.

The only thing I worry about with Noah is - what if he ends up like Deng , Hinrich and Gordon. Is it possible that this is the best Noah gets? He could be a giuy that gets 12 and 12, and that's great. I just don't want the Bulls to completely fall in love with the guy to the point where they thing he's more valuable than Bosh.

I just don't want the Bulls to fall into that situation again. Because all the love for Noah is sounding the same as the love Deng got 3 years ago. And I was part of the Deng love-fest. And I love Noah too. But if the Raptors are willing to send Bosh here for Noah, you have to pull the trigger on that.

Now if we don't get Bosh, I would be happy with plan B of Boozer, Noah, Deng Rose.

I'm not big on the David Lee Rudy *** combo. Doesn't Rudy *** play the same position as Deng? How would that work? Expect *** to play the 2 and guard 2s? Has *** played the 2 a lot. Mayo is the starting 2 guard for them right?

I agree on most of this. I would pull the trigger on the trade, if it's even needed which ITS NOT, sorry just had to say that since everyone is assuming Bosh won't leave unless it's a S&T, which I don't believe. If he really wants to come here, he will. However, I don't think this the best we've seen from Noah. This kid has a motor that never stops. He effects the game in more ways for this team than anyone other than Rose. His improvement, combined with the scrappy, heady play of rookie Taj Gibson, completely turned around our interior D which was none existent the previous season. On top of that, everyone can see that Jo is the emotional leader of this team, the heart. We play looser, harder, & more energetic when he is out there. Losing that will affect this team, trust me.

If Noah is fully healthy next season, I think Howard may lose the rebounding title he's had the past 5 seasons. Noah is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA already & just posted the 1st 20-20 game ever for a Bull. His midrange shot is improving & every year he gets better from the FT line. I can see Noah as a 15-15 guy.

You team Bosh up with Noah, get a solid outside shooter like Miller or Korver & this team is a top team. And if you don't get Bosh, you take Boozer, who is a better fit for us than Stat, because he actually HAS a post up game. I hate his injury history but when he's healthy he's one of the best & a perfect fit having already played with a great PG, comprable to Rose though definitely better than right now, in constant pick-n-roll situations.

 

[houheffna]

Sure it does, Duncan has played on cheap teams with his best players being late first round draft picks. Big difference, the Lakers always had more talent and resources to win. Duncan has done less with more is my point.

So Duncan is better because the Lakers had more...resources??? OK!

The argument was that Duncan is better than Kobe RIGHT NOW...that is the asinine statement.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Seriously this again. Is there any doubt that the Lakers championship teams have had a lot more to work with and still only won as many titles as the Spurs did in the last decade. Duncan has never played with a top 15 player in the league, Kobe won the majority of his titles as the #2 to the most dominant player in the game at the time.

Duncan never played with a top 15 player? What was David Robinson, chopped liver? He still made the all-NBA third team in Duncan's 4th year. And IMO Manu was a top 15 player for several years as well. Parker won the finals MVP in their last championship too.

I don't think the Spurs have had the depth the Lakers have had, but Duncan's sidekicks have been good.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Unfortunatly you are overlooking the fact that its much easier to find a defensive center then it is a 20/10 big man. Not to mention the fact that if that happened we would bring over asik for sure and/or look to sign a C in fa. A guy like Haywood or Dampier would help or we can trade for Pryzbilla. Noah is clearly more replacable than bosh. And in all honesty, I don't see Rose/Deng/Bosh/Noah being a contender and Jr paying out Rose and Bosh the max, Deng a huge deal and Noah big bucks with a shrinking cap.

Funnily enough, my team included a 20/10 big man: David Lee.

Look, if you're going to say it's easy to find a defensive center, you need to name someone of equal quality. The drop off from Noah to the guys you name is pretty huge. I'm not trying to sell Lee or Boozer as being as good as Bosh, so why is it OK to name inferior players to Noah as the counter argument? Noah is a borderline top 5 player at his position, you're saying we can just replace him with guys who are barely starters(and in Przybilla's case, not even that). It's not quite saying Gordon wont have a spot in the rotation with Pargo here, but it's along the same lines.

Obviously my first choice is to keep Noah and get Bosh. But if giving up Noah is what it takes to get Bosh, I think we're a better team with Amare + Noah, or Lee + *** + Noah than with Bosh alone.

 

[pinkizdead]

TheStig wrote:

pinkizdead wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

houh


While we are at it, why don't we just swap out Deng for James and Noah for Howard? Granger is their franchise player, he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

unless something drastic happens through the lottery, that indiana team is crap. more than anyone else i think they'd take cap relief. they're loosing money, and they can afford anyone. We'd have to find a diamond in the rough with our draft picks, so it's unlikely, but they might pull the same move as the Sacramento kings with kevin martin. All we need is time, luck, and an expiring contract.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

Sure it does, Duncan has played on cheap teams with his best players being late first round draft picks. Big difference, the Lakers always had more talent and resources to win. Duncan has done less with more is my point.

So Duncan is better because the Lakers had more...resources??? OK!

The argument was that Duncan is better than Kobe RIGHT NOW...that is the asinine statement.

i dont think anyone would make that claim.

i agree. duncan is much worse than kobe at the moment, but eh... i dont believe you that some1 made the argument. no one could suggest such a thing.